Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Hope 20Five Rims – How to seat tubeless
  • 1
    jezzep
    Full Member

    Hiya,

    Hope this post helps, it’s after three days of going mad I finally found a way to seat a Hope 20Five Rim:

    The below was my technique:

    1. Heat Stans tape on a radiator

    2. Thoroughly clean the rim, with disk brake cleaner or Meths

    3. Warm the rim too, if you can.

    4. Warm the tyre too, definitely helps!

    5. Throw the valve supplied by hope in the bin, the neck of it isn’t long enough, for most tubeless inflators. Stans Valves 43mm are perfect. Do not use Chris king, they won’t seat on the narrow diameter of the inner rim profile.

    6. Apply Stans tape.

    7.  Now also get some Duct tape and apply over the top of the stans tape 25mm width. I actually went around twice.

    8. Get a plastic tyre level and ensure the tape is seated on the edges of the rim.

    9. Get a nice sharp point, I used a ground centre punch to piece a nice round hole for the valve.

    10. Right this is important:

    On the inside of the rim push the tyre valve firmly, whilst tightening the collar nut of the valve, push as hard as you can. Only tighten with your fingers,  and not a set of pliers you may pull the valve through (It is possible!)

    11. Seat the tyre, and ensure the tyre is pushed away from the valve, and close to the inner rim edge.

    12. Pump tyre to 50 PSI/3.447 bar.

    13. Listen for any air ecaping around the valve stem.

    14. Leave for at least 30 minutes and check tyre pressure with a gauge.

    14. If you do hear hissing/lost tyre pressure, you may need to remove the tyre and tighten the valve more, no pliers!!!

    15. If 14 fails still, apply dare I say it more duct tape ;-(

    16. Oh yes do not use Muc off tape, it leaves a residue on the rim, that’s very hard to remove. Don’t ask me how I know ;-(

    For me the big issue is the design of the rim, it’s too ridged to get a good seal with the tape and the valve. I have written a complaint to Hope about it, I hope they will take on board my comments.

    Oh yes, why did I use Stans tape and not purely duct tape? I wasn’t happy entirely to rely on duct tape to keep a reliable pressure seal,  because it is more maleable, also the duct tape residue stays mainly on the stans tape and doesn’t build up on the rim…

    Hope this helps

    BR

    JeZ

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    That sounds very complicated. For the dozens that I’ve done it’s just wrap with 2 layers of tubeless tape, insert valve, fit tyre, seat with track pump, remove valve core, add sealant, pump up tyre.

    james-rennie
    Full Member

    Does anyone know if 20Five rims and Fillmore valves work well together?

    1
    sharkattack
    Full Member

    I think I’d just do what I’ve been doing for the last 10 years. Electrical tape then Gorilla tape.

    jezzep
    Full Member

    That sounds very complicated. For the dozens that I’ve done it’s just wrap with 2 layers of tubeless tape, insert valve, fit tyre, seat with track pump, remove valve core, add sealant, pump up tyre.

    Normally agree I never have had a problem, till I met these rims! Horrendous. It’s the profile of the rim that’s the problem.

    JeZ

    jezzep
    Full Member

    I think I’d just do what I’ve been doing for the last 10 years. Electrical tape then Gorilla tape.

    I tried the electrical tape fix, it didn’t work either.  Also watch the valves if the inner stem is too wide, it won’t seat either. Stans were the only valves I could get to work and I tried the supplied but they were too short, for my pump. Chris King too wide and never seated properly, which may have been caused by problems with tape.

    I posted this guide, because it was the only technique I found that worked ;-(

    BR

    JeZ

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    Normally agree I never have had a problem, till I met these rims! Horrendous. It’s the profile of the rim that’s the problem.

    Sorry, but my post was about those particular rims.

    jezzep
    Full Member

    Sorry, but my post was about those particular rims.

    Oh, OK, if that worked great! My word of warning on them is that it isn’t easy to get the valve to seat and rim, till you figure out that is is hard to seat specific tape and the valve is in a rim profile, that makes it hard for it to seat properly.

    JeZ

    1
    akeys001
    Full Member

    Does anyone know if 20Five rims and Fillmore valves work well together?

    yep work well for me

    ampthill
    Full Member

    Useful, these are the first rims I ever tried to run tubeless. It nearly liked me and they currently have tubes in

    P20
    Full Member

    Never had any issues with mine. Tessa tape and some sealant, air chamber device to seat the tyres as with most set ups. I’ve used Peatys valves, but now have Reserve fillmore. Tyres have been WTB and terravail.

    jezzep
    Full Member

    @P20

    Never had any issues with mine. Tessa tape and some sealant, air chamber device to seat the tyres as with most set ups. I’ve used Peatys valves, but now have Reserve fillmore. Tyres have been WTB and terravail.

    Interesting the Fillmore valve! That’s clever ;-) I love the way they use rivet technology to get the valve to seat on the rim. Expensive but really makes sense. In fairness I think most of the issues I had was valve related and the area for valve seating on the rim.

    I only posted the guide to show the issues with the Rim, that I saw. I can see why they did it, but they really should post a guide on how to seat tyres with them and the issues people will have.

    If people look at what I wrote it is simple steps to follow to get it to work in general, it may seem complicated but it isn’t really and does work…

    JeZ

    P20
    Full Member

    I don’t understand the need for gorilla tape. The stans/tessa dos the job by itself

    jezzep
    Full Member

    I don’t understand the need for gorilla tape. The stans/tessa dos the job by itself

    Well I tried stans and found it didn’t seal that well on its own, and was losisg pressure. This is probably because the tape is quite stiff. I also found stans tape split around the valve. I figured the stans tape wasn’t malleable enough and prone to splitting. I kept stans in the final solution, because I thought it was handling pressure. This is why the  hybrid approach was what I did. Three wraps of duct tape should also work…

    JeZ

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    Gorilla tape is great because of how fast and reliable it is in comparison to how temperamental and inconsistent different brands of tubeless tapes are. When you have a busy workshop, a fleet of demo bikes or a race team to deal with (I’ve done all 3 at one point) it’s much easier to just Gorilla tape it and have it work perfectly first time 99% of the time. You can’t be sitting next to the radiator waiting for your rims to come up to ambient temperature when you’re in a soggy field in Wales or something.

    The biggest mistake people make is covering their rims in the indestructible Gorilla glue which is all but impossible to remove. Do a couple of runs of electrical tape first and it’s never an issue.

    stevehine
    Full Member

    Indeed – a friend of mine is still running some wheels from 2010 ish that I ghetto’d with gorilla tape; It’s not just reliable it’s incredibly long lasting !

    legometeorology
    Free Member

    I sold a pair of Hope 20fives as I just couldn’t get a good seal, absolute nightmare

    I also tried some Effeto rim strips and the spoke holes cut through them

    jezzep
    Full Member

    The biggest mistake people make is covering their rims in the indestructible Gorilla glue which is all but impossible to remove. Do a couple of runs of electrical tape first and it’s never an issue.

    That was another reason I used stans underneath, because it doesn’t leave a residue. Word of warning, typically in  the past I used muc of tape, this is also very hard to remove and I couldn’t find a solvent that removes it 😢

    I learned something new though. Tesa tape, on order it’s a heck of a lot cheaper…

    JeZ

    mashr
    Full Member

    n the past I used muc of tape, this is also very hard to remove and I couldn’t find a solvent that removes it

    I’ve got 1 wheel with Muc-Off tape on at the moment – really didn’t like using it, just didn’t want to sit nicely and I’m pretty sure taking the tyre off will render it useless. Not impressed to hear I’ll have to attack the glue residue too.

    OTOH rubbing alcohol has made light work of Gorilla tape glue for me in the past.

    Project 76 have a very good alternative to Fillmore for anyone that needs a high flow/non-gunk valve

    bikerevivesheffield
    Full Member

    Muc off tape is great if applied properly and contrary to the above leaves best part of no residue, if it does use IPA or the muc off glue/sealant remover

    escrs
    Free Member

    My Hope 20Fives were a doddle to set up tubeless using Chain reaction’s prime tape and valves, think i put muc off sealant in them, they went straight up with the track pump

    They are buried somewhere in the garage as they are fitted with winter gravel tyres, must dig them out soon and double check them ready for when the weather worsens

    oggintheogg
    Free Member

    Yes, first hand experience of these particular rims. They were a nightmare (and yes all the other rims I’ve done were easy by comparison). I used Tessa tape and they are OK now but still loose air. Remember that it can seem like they are leaking from the valve but actually thats just the point where the air is escaping – it can really be leaking under the tape itself  – these rims seemed particularly prone to the tape pulling away breaking the seal.

    chrisdavids
    Full Member

    Thanks for this. I have also been struggling big time with these rims having previously had very few issues with mtb rims.  The tape seems to lift off due to the shape of the rim and once this happens sealant gets into the nipple holes making applying new tape difficult.

    I’ve resorted to using some (now discontinued) rim strips from Stans. They just about hold air (touch wood) but far from perfect. Disappointing from Hope.

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    I don’t know what Hope’s problem is but they’ve never been able to nail the rim game. They’ve unleashed some truly awful versions on the world.

    I know they can’t make their own but surely it’s not that difficult to find a catalogue version that isn’t horrible. Or just sell rebranded DT Swiss if that’s an option.

    jezzep
    Full Member

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    Viewing 24 posts – 1 through 24 (of 24 total)

    Hope 20Five Rims – How to seat tubeless
    | Unsubscribe

    jezzepFull Member
    Hiya,

    Hope this post helps, it’s after three days of going mad I finally found a way to seat a Hope 20Five Rim:

    The below was my technique:

    1. Heat Stans tape on a radiator

    2. Thoroughly clean the rim, with disk brake cleaner or Meths

    3. Warm the rim too, if you can.

    4. Warm the tyre too, definitely helps!

    5. Throw the valve supplied by hope in the bin, the neck of it isn’t long enough, for most tubeless inflators. Stans Valves 43mm are perfect. Do not use Chris king, they won’t seat on the narrow diameter of the inner rim profile.

    6. Apply Stans tape.

    7.  Now also get some Duct tape and apply over the top of the stans tape 25mm width. I actually went around twice.

    8. Get a plastic tyre level and ensure the tape is seated on the edges of the rim.

    9. Get a nice sharp point, I used a ground centre punch to piece a nice round hole for the valve.

    10. Right this is important:

    On the inside of the rim push the tyre valve firmly, whilst tightening the collar nut of the valve, push as hard as you can. Only tighten with your fingers,  and not a set of pliers you may pull the valve through (It is possible!)

    11. Seat the tyre, and ensure the tyre is pushed away from the valve, and close to the inner rim edge.

    12. Pump tyre to 50 PSI/3.447 bar.

    13. Listen for any air ecaping around the valve stem.

    14. Leave for at least 30 minutes and check tyre pressure with a gauge.

    14. If you do hear hissing/lost tyre pressure, you may need to remove the tyre and tighten the valve more, no pliers!!!

    15. If 14 fails still, apply dare I say it more duct tape ;-(

    16. Oh yes do not use Muc off tape, it leaves a residue on the rim, that’s very hard to remove. Don’t ask me how I know ;-(

    For me the big issue is the design of the rim, it’s too ridged to get a good seal with the tape and the valve. I have written a complaint to Hope about it, I hope they will take on board my comments.

    Oh yes, why did I use Stans tape and not purely duct tape? I wasn’t happy entirely to rely on duct tape to keep a reliable pressure seal,  because it is more maleable, also the duct tape residue stays mainly on the stans tape and doesn’t build up on the rim…

    Hope this helps

    BR

    JeZ
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    simondbarnesFull Member
    That sounds very complicated. For the dozens that I’ve done it’s just wrap with 2 layers of tubeless tape, insert valve, fit tyre, seat with track pump, remove valve core, add sealant, pump up tyre.
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

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    james-rennieFull Member
    Does anyone know if 20Five rims and Fillmore valves work well together?
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    1
    sharkattackFull Member
    I think I’d just do what I’ve been doing for the last 10 years. Electrical tape then Gorilla tape.
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member
    That sounds very complicated. For the dozens that I’ve done it’s just wrap with 2 layers of tubeless tape, insert valve, fit tyre, seat with track pump, remove valve core, add sealant, pump up tyre.
    Normally agree I never have had a problem, till I met these rims! Horrendous. It’s the profile of the rim that’s the problem.

    JeZ
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member
    I think I’d just do what I’ve been doing for the last 10 years. Electrical tape then Gorilla tape.
    I tried the electrical tape fix, it didn’t work either.  Also watch the valves if the inner stem is too wide, it won’t seat either. Stans were the only valves I could get to work and I tried the supplied but they were too short, for my pump. Chris King too wide and never seated properly, which may have been caused by problems with tape.

    I posted this guide, because it was the only technique I found that worked ;-(

    BR

    JeZ
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    simondbarnesFull Member
    Normally agree I never have had a problem, till I met these rims! Horrendous. It’s the profile of the rim that’s the problem.
    Sorry, but my post was about those particular rims.
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member
    Sorry, but my post was about those particular rims.
    Oh, OK, if that worked great! My word of warning on them is that it isn’t easy to get the valve to seat and rim, till you figure out that is is hard to seat specific tape and the valve is in a rim profile, that makes it hard for it to seat properly.

    JeZ
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    1
    akeys001Full Member
    Does anyone know if 20Five rims and Fillmore valves work well together?
    yep work well for me
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    ampthillFull Member
    Useful, these are the first rims I ever tried to run tubeless. It nearly liked me and they currently have tubes in
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    P20Full Member
    Never had any issues with mine. Tessa tape and some sealant, air chamber device to seat the tyres as with most set ups. I’ve used Peatys valves, but now have Reserve fillmore. Tyres have been WTB and terravail.
    Posted 4 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member

    @P20

    Never had any issues with mine. Tessa tape and some sealant, air chamber device to seat the tyres as with most set ups. I’ve used Peatys valves, but now have Reserve fillmore. Tyres have been WTB and terravail.
    Interesting the Fillmore valve! That’s clever 😉 I love the way they use rivet technology to get the valve to seat on the rim. Expensive but really makes sense. In fairness I think most of the issues I had was valve related and the area for valve seating on the rim.

    I only posted the guide to show the issues with the Rim, that I saw. I can see why they did it, but they really should post a guide on how to seat tyres with them and the issues people will have.

    If people look at what I wrote it is simple steps to follow to get it to work in general, it may seem complicated but it isn’t really and does work…

    JeZ
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    P20Full Member
    I don’t understand the need for gorilla tape. The stans/tessa dos the job by itself
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member
    I don’t understand the need for gorilla tape. The stans/tessa dos the job by itself
    Well I tried stans and found it didn’t seal that well on its own, and was losisg pressure. This is probably because the tape is quite stiff. I also found stans tape split around the valve. I figured the stans tape wasn’t malleable enough and prone to splitting. I kept stans in the final solution, because I thought it was handling pressure. This is why the  hybrid approach was what I did. Three wraps of duct tape should also work…

    JeZ
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    sharkattackFull Member
    Gorilla tape is great because of how fast and reliable it is in comparison to how temperamental and inconsistent different brands of tubeless tapes are. When you have a busy workshop, a fleet of demo bikes or a race team to deal with (I’ve done all 3 at one point) it’s much easier to just Gorilla tape it and have it work perfectly first time 99% of the time. You can’t be sitting next to the radiator waiting for your rims to come up to ambient temperature when you’re in a soggy field in Wales or something.

    The biggest mistake people make is covering their rims in the indestructible Gorilla glue which is all but impossible to remove. Do a couple of runs of electrical tape first and it’s never an issue.
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    stevehineFull Member
    Indeed – a friend of mine is still running some wheels from 2010 ish that I ghetto’d with gorilla tape; It’s not just reliable it’s incredibly long lasting !
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    legometeorologyFree Member
    I sold a pair of Hope 20fives as I just couldn’t get a good seal, absolute nightmare

    I also tried some Effeto rim strips and the spoke holes cut through them
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    jezzepFull Member
    The biggest mistake people make is covering their rims in the indestructible Gorilla glue which is all but impossible to remove. Do a couple of runs of electrical tape first and it’s never an issue.
    That was another reason I used stans underneath, because it doesn’t leave a residue. Word of warning, typically in  the past I used muc of tape, this is also very hard to remove and I couldn’t find a solvent that removes it 😢

    I learned something new though. Tesa tape, on order it’s a heck of a lot cheaper…

    JeZ
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    mashrFull Member
    n the past I used muc of tape, this is also very hard to remove and I couldn’t find a solvent that removes it
    I’ve got 1 wheel with Muc-Off tape on at the moment – really didn’t like using it, just didn’t want to sit nicely and I’m pretty sure taking the tyre off will render it useless. Not impressed to hear I’ll have to attack the glue residue too.

    OTOH rubbing alcohol has made light work of Gorilla tape glue for me in the past.

    Project 76 have a very good alternative to Fillmore for anyone that needs a high flow/non-gunk valve
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    bikerevivesheffieldFull Member
    Muc off tape is great if applied properly and contrary to the above leaves best part of no residue, if it does use IPA or the muc off glue/sealant remover
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    escrsFree Member
    My Hope 20Fives were a doddle to set up tubeless using Chain reaction’s prime tape and valves, think i put muc off sealant in them, they went straight up with the track pump

    They are buried somewhere in the garage as they are fitted with winter gravel tyres, must dig them out soon and double check them ready for when the weather worsens
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    oggintheoggFree Member
    Yes, first hand experience of these particular rims. They were a nightmare (and yes all the other rims I’ve done were easy by comparison). I used Tessa tape and they are OK now but still loose air. Remember that it can seem like they are leaking from the valve but actually thats just the point where the air is escaping – it can really be leaking under the tape itself  – these rims seemed particularly prone to the tape pulling away breaking the seal.
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    chrisdavidsFull Member
    Thanks for this. I have also been struggling big time with these rims having previously had very few issues with mtb rims.  The tape seems to lift off due to the shape of the rim and once this happens sealant gets into the nipple holes making applying new tape difficult.

    I’ve resorted to using some (now discontinued) rim strips from Stans. They just about hold air (touch wood) but far from perfect. Disappointing from Hope.
    Posted 3 days ago
    REPLY | REPORT

    sharkattackFull Member
    I don’t know what Hope’s problem is but they’ve never been able to nail the rim game. They’ve unleashed some truly awful versions on the world.

    I know they can’t make their own but surely it’s not that difficult to find a catalogue version that isn’t horrible. Or just sell rebranded DT Swiss if that’s an option

    I think they are trying to make a reliable, strong wheel. They just forgot that home mechanics want to tape the wheels themselves. It would help that they had a guide on how best to do it.

    I did write an email to them and they said they would look into one.

    One of the reasons I wrote the steps I did was to help others, in the same situation…

    JeZ

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