Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Hookless rims
  • montgomery
    Full Member

    Hookless rims, not something I’ve seen much about here. Need to be careful about tyre compatibility? No need to be that bothered? What about if you chuck a tube in rather than going tubeless?

    sam_underhill
    Full Member

    I think it was specialized that did some research into what the hook actually did. IRRC, on a mtb wheel, they decided it didn’t bring anything to the party.
    I’ve been riding hookless for years, no issues at all. Had an emergency tube in on occasion, still fine.

    hatter
    Full Member

    In a perfect world where every tyre and rim was made exactly to ERTO standard and with very tight tolerances we’d all be on hookless rims. They’re stronger and easier to make, especially in carbon with no real performance downsides.

    Sadly, with the amount of variance out there the hooks are an added safety measure that becomes more pertinent the more air pressure you run.

    At the sub 30PSI pressures the vast majority of us run for MTB, hookless makes total sense. At 80+ PSI the tyre and rim tolerances need to be pretty spot on and the consequences of a blow out get pretty dramatic.

    As a rule I’d run hookless for MTB and hooked for road.

    Gravel is a grey area, I have hookless rims on Schwalbe G-Ones and had no problems with them but you need to check with your tyre brand to be sure.

    montgomery
    Full Member

    OK. I got a set of Mavic wheels in the recent Evans lucky dip, which turned out to be HG freehub (which I wanted) but hookless rims, which I’ve never seen before. The lack of retaining hook is disconcerting after decades of conventional clincher rims.

    devash
    Free Member

    I’m running Specialized / Roval carbon hookless rims on one of my bikes. 2.4 tyres with pressures in the low 20’s. Absolutely no noticeable difference between them and the hooked wheelsets that I own.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    All of my rims, road, gravel and MTB are hookless including my commuter wheels. Almost 20k km without any issues other than a tight fitment.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I’m running Zipp 404 Firecrests which are hookless rims. Was tricky getting compatible tyres initially (before Conti had them in their range). I had to wait a few weeks after getting the rims before I could find any tyres in stock anywhere.

    So far, seem fine – hold air way better than latex inner tubes (which I was using before).

    uselesshippy
    Free Member

    I’ve been running some hookless light bike carbon RMS for eight years, with no problems. Loads of different tyre, pressures etc, not a single problem.

    montgomery
    Full Member

    You (@footflaps) raise the issue of tyre compatibility, which is what interests me. What is compatible? Any Maxxis ‘Tubeless Ready’ tyre, for example? Anything flagged as tubeless compatible in the item descriptions on CRC? Or does the lack of clarity/specificity on this exist because it’s just a bit of a non-issue that nobody’s bothered about?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    You (@footflaps) raise the issue of tyre compatibility, which is what interests me. What is compatible? Any Maxxis ‘Tubeless Ready’ tyre, for example?

    No!

    It must be hookless compatible which is an etra step, so you can’t just use a normal tubeless tyre.

    So for example with the GP5000, the TL is the standard tubeless variant but for Hookless rims you need the S TR: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/new-continental-gp-5000-s-tr-is-hookless-compatible-but-the-brand-wants-you-to-follow-the-rules

    The GP5000s didn’t exist hookless when I was looking, so I’m running Pirelli P Zero Race TLRs of which only the 28mm is rated for hookless rims….

    Shred
    Full Member

    CyclingTips Nerd Alert has a good podcast on Hookless – Google Podcasts

    The ERTRO standard has been updated with TSS (Tubeless Straight Side), max pressure is 73psi (no matter what), and the blow off check has been reduced to 1.1X max, compared to 1.5X max for crochet style rims. It is a bit of a weird one. I have run some Roval CLX50 with straight side for a while now (older tubeless ones) with no issue, easy to use etc. But hearing that conversation makes me think a bit more about they whole issue.

    Conti also have a pressure chart for tyre size and hook type.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I was running 28mm at 60 psi on my previous rims so the 73 psi limit is of no concern to me. Except that if I had to use CO2 to reseat a tyre by the roadside, I might be able to exceed 73 psi and damage the tyre….

    montgomery
    Full Member

    I’ll look at those links – but how relevant are they to (say) running 2.35″ MTB tyres at 30psi, with or without an inner tube…?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Good point – I’ve only looked into the road tyre side of things….

    Shred
    Full Member

    On MTB, for hookless rims it is only good to run a tubeless ready tyre, as the bead will not stretch. A non-tubeless tyre is normally made with a different material in the bead, which can stretch and is made to be held in place by the hooks.

    In the early days of MTB tubeless, we all ran normal tyres with sealant. That was where stans came in with slightly larger rims than normal to allow of normal, looser tyres to sit better, but they all had a hook.

    ac282
    Full Member

    I also had normal tyre blow right off the rim. Very loud and very messy!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    sam_underhill
    Full Member

    I think it was specialized that did some research into what the hook actually did. IRRC, on a mtb wheel, they decided it didn’t bring anything to the party.

    Yup, apparently they hired a new guy and he said “but why” and pretty much everyone else in the entire mtb wheel industry went “just because” and he went “but why” and here we are.

    montgomery
    Full Member

    So is it fair to say that so long as I’m running a ‘Tubeless Ready’ tyre such as this on my hookless Mavic XA Tubeless Ready rims at c.30psi, I’m probably not going to die? I’ve ended up with these wheels kinda by accident, so I’m surprised there isn’t more specific info readily available.

    Shred
    Full Member

    Yep, should be good, just stick to TR.

    beer247
    Full Member

    I run Enve Foundation 45s on the road bike which are hookless, Enve have a webpage detailing all compatible tyres. They do have a caveat on there to say if your tyre isn’t listed check with the manufacturer to see if that specific model is compatible with a hookless rim.

    For example, those Pas Normal Studio/Pirelli colab tyres that were released a couple of weeks back, not listed on the Enve webpage but its stated on the PNS website that the 28C version is compatible with hooklees rims, but only up to 75psi.

    What is definitely not compatible are non-tubeless tyres, specialized turbo cottons for example, you run the risk of blowing the tyre off the rim at road bike pressures!

    branes
    Full Member

    I think it was specialized that did some research into what the hook actually did. IRRC, on a mtb wheel, they decided it didn’t bring anything to the party.

    I was interested in this, so went off to try to find a source. Closest I can find is this:

    https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-faq-hooked-vs-hookless-rims-tire-choice-and-pressure-recommendations/

    ““We do not recommend using any tires with a max pressure above 5.5bar (80psi) on straight wall rims.”

    So, yes, for MTB probably irrelevant, but they also state:

    “The same tires on a steel rim with bead hook held 20 percent more pressure compared to a straight wall steel rim.”

    So in general it’s something to bear in mind.

    TroutWrestler
    Free Member

    I have read the same story as Northwind, although I cant remember where. The new person wasn’t on the design side IIRC, and said words to the effect of “Why do you have that bit there?”

    montgomery
    Full Member

    For closure, I just wrestled a Maxxis TR tyre onto the rear XA rim and, while I feared at one point that I might have to end up buying one of those tyre installation tools the cycling girlie-men use, it ended up going on fine, popping right into place. Seems fine, set my mind at rest.

    docrobster
    Free Member

    Only by reading this thread did I realise that the wheels I’ve been riding for 2 years have hookless rims- mavic XA as above.
    I can’t say I’ve been impressed with them and perhaps now I know why.
    Initially set up tubeless with cheap wtb trail boss 29×2.25. Seemed to lose air too easy. This was on a hardtail. Ditched those tyres for vee flow snap which have been on since and work fine. Last April I bought a psa Vitoria mezcal. Maybe I underinflated it but lost air first time out. Tried to reseat it and kept pumping waiting for the pop of the bead seating. Never happened but the rim buckled. At about 60psi. That was not good. Bought a new replacement rim (exact spec from mavic) and only then read where it says max 52 psi.
    That rim died beyond repair coming down off cut gate a couple of weeks ago (round or straight, pick one!)
    So those wheels have been replaced with nukeproof horizons.
    I’m thinking of straightening the rear as best I can and putting them back on the bimbling hardtail with the trail bosses. But now I’m worried. I’ve never thought to check if tyres were compatible with rims before if everything is “tubeless ready”
    Luckily the new wheels have hooked rims.

    montgomery
    Full Member

    Ok, handy to know.

    docrobster
    Free Member

    Bargain in that evans sale the other week though. I paid £240 for mine and a replacement rim was only £30 last year. Don’t seem to be able to find that rim online any more (was from bikeinn I think). So not sure what I would replace it with if I need to. 24 hole I think narrows it down. They don’t seem to publish the erd either.

Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)

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