Hong Kong 😢

  • This topic has 106 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by  chewkw.
Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 107 total)
  • Hong Kong 😢
  • sobriety
    Member

    I’m pretty sure re-education via imprisonment is incoming. 🙁

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    so go on – whats the moral differnce between Hong Kong, chagos islands and falklands?

    The Falklands islanders want to be British?

    Like Scottish independence they were offered a vote and chose to remain British. If Denmark decided to invade based on it previous being Viking we might help you out, wouldn’t even need the Vulcan as youre closer.

    handybar
    Member

    I have a bad feeling about the next 48 hours, I think there could be some very bloody retribution against the protesters coming up. China’s economy is flatlining, the gov know this could lead to widespread civil unrest on the mainland, and they may want to make an example of HK in the meantime.

    loughor
    Member

    I began this thread and was at HKIA yesterday. Simply incredible. There is a huge amount of BS fake news circulating from both camps. PRC will only intervene as a last resort. However, that juncture may have been reached.

    handybar
    Member

    The Chinese military are 20 mins outside Hong Kong.
    This is not going to be pretty.
    God save the people of Hong Kong.

    loughor
    Member

    @tails yes, that was the original stimulus. When nobody paid attention to peaceful protests, they provoked a fight which by damn they got and tragically are still getting. Situation is horrible with no solution apparent at the moment.

    tjagain
    Member

    TINAS – and the hong Kong citizens did not want to be Chinese citizens – but what chance where they given?

    the Chagos islanders were illegally thrown off their land and the UK government has refused to let them back in defiance of international law and UN resolutions

    Of course the other difference is the Falkland islanders are white!

    They did before Britain took it – and if it weren’t for the humiliation of the opium wars then we might never have had the PRC in the first place. It was t our place to keep it just as it’s not our place to keep the Chagos islands.

    Give any protestors who can leave British citizenship and send arms to Taiwan – that is the most we can and could ever do. The difference is not because falklanders are white, the difference is that HK was Chinese sovereign property whilst the Falklands were not originally Argentine property.

    tjagain
    Member

    So we can defy international law and the UN to stop the chagos islanders getting their home back, we can defy international law and kill well over a thousand young men to assert sovereignty over the Falklands but over hong kong all we could do was roll over?

    tjagain
    Member

    The Chagos islands still belong to the UK!

    Point out where we broke international law on defending the falklands and what right Argentina has to the Falklands.

    Explain how fighting a nuclear armed PLA is comparable to fighting the Argies.

    And the Chagos islanders have chosen to be part of the uk like the falklanders tj?

    Trimix
    Member

    We too easily fall into the premise of viewing this from a Western perspective / culture.

    China is not Western, it does not think like us, act like us.

    Just look at how the tiananmen square has been erased from history undert the direct gaze of the whole world. They control the internet in China. They control how public opinion is formed, recorded and taught.

    They will view any disruption as an insult to their nation first. Any disruption will be squashed, not negotiated away. To negotiate it away, or modify their behaviour as a result of external pressure is just not Chinese. Economic pressure is a distant second thought when it comes to restoring order in their country.

    The current leader will act with overwhelming strength and its wishfull thinking to hope otherwise.

    boblo
    Member

    Point of fact: HK Island was leased in perpetuity during the opium wars, Kowloon and NT for 99 years. The 99 years were up in 1997 and HK Island could not sensibly exist without Kowloon/NT (water etc) hence the handback. Macau was similarly leased to Portugal and, IIRC, handed back in 1995.

    tjagain
    Member

    And the Chagos islanders have chosen to be part of the uk like the falklanders tj?

    They just want to live on the island we stole from them to give to the US.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    TJ, you’re conflating several different colonies, former colonies, parts of the Uk with huge differences in how/why they are how they are.

    Just because one set of islands has a history doesn’t mean another shares it. You didn’t mention Gibraltar, Jersey, Shetland?

    tjagain
    Member

    TINAS

    My point is the hypocrisy

    Chagos islanders – despite being in breach of international law and UN resolutions they are not being allowed home – why – because the US has a base there

    Falklands – we killed a thousand people to assert sovereignty and breached international law

    Hong Kong – nothing we can do – just give them to china!

    Did the hong kong peoples get a vote on remaining a colony / becoming independent?

    All three are island colonies / protectorates / whatever

    We can defy international law and the UN when it suits but over HOng KKong we could not

    the moral difference between the 3 is zero. The difference is that when the people are white we fight for them. When they are brown we do not, when we need to appease a major power we roll over

    It was obvious that this would happen in Hong Kong – we just abandoned those people to their fate. We didn’t even give them right to settle in the UK. its disgraceful

    loughor
    Member

    Fellas, please stop the bickering 🙏 myself, at least two other forum members and 7 million HK people are potentially looking down the barrel of a bloody huge gun. So, please, on topic.
    I am a home owner here, my family rely on me as do all other residents.
    I pray otherwise but 175 years of HK history may be rewritten this week. We are all scared 😞

    sobriety
    Member

    Did the hong kong peoples get a vote on remaining a colony / becoming independent?

    To the best of my knowledge they did not, and if they had then the order of desires goes something like:

    1. Fully Indenpendent
    2. British Colony/dependancy/whatever
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    3. Chinese.

    Source: My GF is a Hong Konger. It’s worth rembering that while mainland Chinese/Hong Kong Chinese are (I think) ethnically thre same (Han Chinese) they have different languages, Hong Kong speaks Cantonese, the Mainland Mandarin. That the Chinese govt is trying to prevent Catonese being taught in Hong Kong schools is a whole other thread in itself…

    Loughor, get yourself over to the Roundhouse for a well earned beer. Perhaps dinner at Manchu afterwards.

    When it’s all blown over, and I’m back out there, how about a pint or two?

    Stay safe.

    loughor
    Member

    Flashy old chap, if that is still on the table I shall happily pay for all you need 👍🙏
    I shall even show you a new trail or two if that is of your persuasion ! Thank you for your support 🙏

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    It’s certainly a scary situation. Putin has already demonstrated (if you’re a country of significant military power) you can do pretty much what you like (e.g. Crimea) and get away with it as no one these days is going to risk war over something that doesn’t directly involve them (and has no impact on things like the global oil supply). Anyway it’s only really the US that would have any power to intervene in HK and I’m guessing they’ll just be fine with economic sanctions at best. The UK has no power to do anything.

    I’m actually more surprised China hasn’t already overtly intervened but it seems inevitable they will soon, they’ve already laid all the groundwork both with their messaging and deploying paramilitary forces on the border.

    Unfortunately the demonstrators are caught between two nightmarish outcomes, China quashing the protests and imposing direct rule under their mainland laws or the HK people stopping the protests and China implementing effectively the same thing just in a more under-hand and slower way. I can’t see any possibility this ends up with HK staying properly under a two-systems agreement.

    BaronVonP7
    Member

    China seems to be acting quite restrained ATM (I’m not there, so don’t know).

    Is this because if they go in mob handed then Taiwan can say to the world “Told you so”?

    Premier Icon stewartc
    Subscriber

    Got to say I’m not picking up any of the vibes you lot are and like Loughor I live here.
    The general gist I am getting is people are starting to get peed off with the protestors disrupting day to day life, Hong Kong people can be very small minded in that respect (i.e. if it doesnt affect me it’s not my problem).
    I understand that some paramiltary forces are already in town “helping” the police which would proabably explain some of the recent heavy handed actions, however small groups of protestors are also not helping themselves, especially at the airport at the moment.
    Expect an escalation from them and then a short Sharp reply, the Chinese government are being very restrained, they just need a good legitimate (to the outside world) reason to wield the hammer.
    Had my mum Whatsapping me earlier asking if the tanks have arrived yet, what is your news showing you?

    Trimix
    Member

    I cant blame the protesters for doing what they are doing. They are creating a world wide stink. What else can they do. What would you do.

    Either fight publically now and go down kicking and screaming. Or do nothing and go down suffocating slowly.

    I would pick the former myself.

    doris5000
    Member

    Had my mum Whatsapping me earlier asking if the tanks have arrived yet, what is your news showing you?

    dunno if you can access twitter, but this has been fairly widely circulated (videos of a million military vehicles posting up in Shenzhen)

    Cletus
    Member

    My brother’s family live in HK so it is a bit worrying particularly as my nieces are 8 and 11.

    They are not there at the moment but will be returning via the airport in a couple of days. His wife works for a large bank there and there is talk that it may relocate people to Singapore if things start getting worse.

    I would like to see the tech giants take some initiative. A threat from Apple to move production from China would probably have more influence than any UK posturing but I will not hold my breath waiting for it as I think that they (and the other big tech companies) are morally bankrupt and shirk the responsibility that comes with their economic power.

    easily
    Member

    @tjagain

    Falklands – we killed a thousand people to assert sovereignty and breached international law

    What laws did we beach? (Not snark, I didn’t know we’d broken international law).

    I’m not sure it’s simply racism that made us defend the Falklands but not HK, though racism may be a part of it.
    1: As I understand it Argentina has no serious legal claim on the Falklands, while China does have a legal claim on HK
    2: Argentina invaded, whereas China negotiated.
    3: Going to war with China is not really feasible. Britain had the ability to ‘take back’ the Falklands, it quite simply does not have the strength to face China.

    tjagain
    Member

    Easily – at the risk of sending this waaaaay off topic sinking the Belgrano, bombing argentina were the most obvious breaches – altho the bombing of argentia was the most amazing piece of work.

    easily
    Member

    tjagain

    Doh! It’s a long time ago and I’m ashamed to say I’d forgotten about that. Thanks for putting me straight.

    The captain of the Belgrano disagrees. Also, Argentina was never bombed.

    All that is for a different discussion, however.

    tjagain
    Member

    Indeed it is. ~And CFH is right on that about the mainland bombing. My mistake

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    WTF are you going on about the Falklands for? It’s nothing like the current situation in HK.

    The Argentinian military junta invaded the Falklands as a last gasp act to regain some popularity (we would likely have negotiated a hand back of sorts with them anyway but they just wanted a show of power and to stir up some nationalism). Whilst the Belgrano was sunk outside of the exclusion zone it (alongside other Argentinian naval units) were preparing to launch an attack on the British task force (we know this from intercepted signals). You really think we should have waited until they’d launched an attack rather than pre-emptively sinking a ship acting in a hostile way belonging to a country that had just invaded islands under UK sovereignty)

    Also the SAS/SBS were on the mainland but in an observational role (i.e. to give early warning of their planes taking off). There was speculation sabotage missions were planned but they never happened.

    WTF are you going on about the Falklands for?

    Right back at you…

    tjagain
    Member

    CaptainFlashheart

    All that is for a different discussion, however.

    Please? Responding to the post from a hong Kong resident above

    Premier Icon stewartc
    Subscriber

    As an HK resident I’m a little confused what the hell the Falkland War has to do with the situation here, then I realised I’m on an online forum and some people……

    Trimix
    Member

    Perhaps those who need to argue over the Falklands can start a new thread.

    Preferably a thread in the middle of the Atlantic hours from here……………….nooooo, Im just adding to it now. Sorry !

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    CFH: don’t mention the war
    TJ: he started it
    CFH: no he didn’t
    TJ: yes he did, he invaded poland the Falklands

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