Hong Kong 😢

  • This topic has 106 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by  chewkw.
Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 107 total)
  • Hong Kong 😢
  • loughor
    Member

    Has been my home for 25 years, I love this place. I know some here have ties also.
    Oh me oh my, it’s messy!
    Don’t know what else to say other than please pray for the place 👍

    Indeed. It looks messy. Haven’t been out in a few months, and my local team sound wary about us travelling out there. ☹

    I too love the place, and just want to see it happy again. HKers deserve it.

    loughor
    Member

    Tonight is even worse. Police Station on fire, petrol bombs chaos 😢

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    Doesn’t look good.

    One of our friends daughters is off to study at the uni for a year. Mildly worried about her TBH, but I’m thinking th euni would pull it if it was genuinely dangerous.

    Premier Icon csb
    Subscriber

    Fond memories of my time there. The handover was so strange, like the irrepressible energy of the place took a quick check then carried on regardless. Scary.

    sobriety
    Member

    My GF is from there, she’s finding the whole thing quite upsetting.

    Sadly this kind of thing was inevitable post-handover, as China wants to make HK China, and a good sized chunk of the HK population don’t want that at all.

    Allegedly the Chinese have been loading the police with mainlanders and making is easier for them to settle in HK to attempt to drive “mainlandisation”, the locals were always going to push back at some point.

    Trimix
    Member

    I have fond memories of the place, lived and worked there back in the late 80’s before the hand over.

    Sadly I dont think it will end well. China will enforce whatever it wants, no compromise. Gradually they will squeeze the protesters until they stop protesting. Either because they are visiting a re-education center, or have fled overseas in fear of thier life and liberty.

    The West are too scared to do anything, plus, should we actually be interfering with internal problems in another country ? We dont have a good track record around the world when it comes to messing with other countrys, so even if its right to now do so, I dont see that being the general view eveyone will hold. Can of worms is an understatment.

    Look at what China has done elsewhere when faced with any form of disent from its population.

    tdog
    Member

    Oddy enough I have been praying for HK as have mates that are from there who work there.

    And dad’s partner’s daughter works there iirc.

    It does sound/look horrendous so thoughts are with you to stay safe as poss.

    👍😊

    athgray
    Member

    I had a great time there whilst travelling in 2002. Been following this recently. Feel sorry for the people of Hong Kong.

    China will STOMP on the protesters soon.  It won’t be the white shirted goons we saw earlier this month beating on protesters with sticks it will be the military using tanks and guns.  The protesters are pushing too hard and China as Trimix stated earlier will not tolerate dissent in the masses for fear it will snowball into a wider revolt against the communist party.

    Winnie the Pooh and the Communist Party won’t care about the whining from the West about casualties and in 10 years time the event will be washed from the Chinese memory like Tiananmen Square has been, or it will be used to accuse the West and Colonial troublemakers of stirring up anti Chinese rioters that needed putting down and help fan Chinese patriotism in preparation for the Pacific Expansion program.

    Premier Icon stewartc
    Subscriber

    I suspect it will get quieter as the school and university holidays finish, it’s bad but not on the 1967 level….yet. Theres a lot of big social issues in HK that have been bubbling over and now unleashed by the recent protests. It started in 2014 and now is providing a vent for those stuck in the system here, massive gaps between rich and.poor, an economy run by property agents and the real fear of being overrun by the Han Chinese.
    Even my wife is discussing getting a full fat GB passport, shes BNO at present. The times are definitely a changing.

    Although I should add I’m working in Beijing at the moment, nothing on the local TV here 🙂

    cranberry
    Member

    Sadly, we are all responsible for this situation as we’ve watched Tianamen, then still bought container after container from the regime that drove tanks over its own people. China sees the west as being weak.

    The one thing that *might* save the people of Hong Kong – the threat of a complete block on trade with China by all wesstern nations if the regime commits mass murder – will never happen, because we all like our cheap, plastic tat.

    handybar
    Member

    The west sells out the brave people of Hong Kong in order to keep its people pacified with plasma tvs.

    loughor
    Member

    Sorry, I’m gonna nudge this back. Today was peaceful 🙏
    Those who’ve commented thnx.
    It’s going to get bad again tmw.
    Solution ? I’m not qualified. Prognosis ? Terminal I fear 🙁

    chewkw
    Member

    Even my wife is discussing getting a full fat GB passport, shes BNO at present. The times are definitely a changing.

    She should get a proper GB passport as life in HK will get even harder from now on as most of the rich has other passport long time ago. No point opposing China as HK is part of China and eventually all laws will be the same as those in mainland China. Centralisation is the norm in China.

    If the West intend to “fuel” the tension in HK it will only add to the suffering of HK people. Put it this way they might live under a Chinese system but at least they are alive. China cannot afford dissenting voice regardless due to their more than 1.4 billion population. Taiwan is different in the sense that it is the retreating KMT govt that presides over the island, but eventually it will also be China.

    If I can recall the transition period is set at 50 years …

    loughor
    Member

    Joint Declaration in 1984 stated 50 years of agreement correct. Dear Lord, Monday looked the end of Time.
    I’ve been here 25 years, I retire soon and will stay here no matter what. But holy moly I’ve not seen viciousness like this since I was a copper in Cardiff in the 1990s

    Sadly, we are all responsible for this situation as we’ve watched Tianamen, then still bought container after container from the regime that drove tanks over its own people.

    Things are never this simple and the way not to deal with difficult regimes is to simply cut them off – this has been demonstrated time and time again. Tiananmen happened before we started buying container after container from them when they were a closed nation to the rest of the world. Since they’ve opened up a bit things have got a lot better for Chinese people. The rise in China as a global economic superpower has softened the regime and brought more freedom and prosperity to billions of people who before were below the poverty line living in squalor without access to education, medicine, electricity, clean water etc. (probably a realisation by the regime after Tiananmen which has caused them to go down the current road and giving people more freedom and prosperity). Still a long way to go for China, but there is more personal freedom there now than before. These things don’t happen overnight and shouldn’t happen overnight. The Arab spring didn’t go down too well – all happened too quickly destabilised the area with a lot of warring factions that were previously held in a precarious balance and a delicate stalemate and disrupting all of that has been an absolute disaster with the key players still in power but destroyed nations and the civilian population slaughtered.

    China is going to need the rest of the world going forward more than ever before. It faces an unprecedented population crisis as the years of the single child policy has caused a massive imbalance in the split between the sexes and a reduction in the population growth in China meaning it will have to attract millions of immigrants over the coming decades to sustain its growth and maintain its population. And to attract highly skilled and educated immigrants it’s going to have to be an attractive place to live – which means freedom, prosperity and all the usual trappings of the Western world. China is changing.

    But hopefully things will quieten down in HK. I’ve visited there a number of times and its an awesome place with awesome people. One of the few places in that part of the world i’d love to go back and spend more time. But I guess more alignment to the ‘mother country’ was inevitable which will be hard for those in HK.

    chewkw
    Member

    The only aspect that I oppose is the alignment (not a law yet I think) of the usage of Chinese written language. HK is still using the “long form” of traditional writing (just like Taiwan) but China is using the “new” form of simplified characters. As far as written language is concerned the South (including south China long time ago) traditionally has more ways of expression in both written and pronunciation. Like all dynasties they come and go but at the moment China is in the Communist “dynasty” so standardisation is the norm. Overseas Chinese (descendent living all over the world) has a choice of learning both language but in S.E. Asia only Malaysia permits formal Chinese independent schools while countries like Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, Brunei, Burma etc all “eradicated” formal Chinese schools and the Chinese descendent in those countries have all gone native. Although Chinese in those countries no longer have their own written language they can still be scapegoat for all religious tension like in Indonesia a while back.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    China is going to need the rest of the world going forward more than ever before. It faces an unprecedented population crisis as the years of the single child policy has caused a massive imbalance in the split between the sexes and a reduction in the population growth in China meaning it will have to attract millions of immigrants over the coming decades to sustain its growth and maintain its population. And to attract highly skilled and educated immigrants it’s going to have to be an attractive place to live – which means freedom, prosperity and all the usual trappings of the Western world. China is changing.

    It’s one hypothesis, but look at the Arab world for an alternative. Simply pay westerners enough that they ignore the lack of freedoms and blatant human rights abuses and racism.

    As for the need for a growing population to fuel growth, not so sure there either. China’s economy is built on exports and still has a large rural population. So growth can be sustained if they can export more and more. As well as urbanisation increasing per capita growth as productivity increases. In a socialist economy* it costs the same amount for a subsistence farmer as it does an engineer, but the engineer gives you far more productivity.

    *no economy is actually truly like this, it’s a model/theory.

    HKG in total shutdown today.
    😐

    chewkw
    Member

    HKG in total shutdown today.

    Soon HK will be put in quarantine …

    They can fight but they will not win and unless they have another passport they will be stuck in HK.

    Trimix
    Member

    Note that the Government in China refer to the protesters as Terrorists.

    This will not end well. Sadly the West are powerless and will be ingored by the Chinese.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    No point opposing China as HK is part of China and eventually all laws will be the same as those in mainland China. Centralisation is the norm in China.

    Sadly this. As awful as it is this is the truth. It’s China so China’s rules. The tragedy is British colonialism really.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    The tragedy is British colonialism really.

    In what way for this specific case.

    Thinking of the upside apparently Hong Kong currently buy a fair amount of their crowd control weapons from the UK so with all the tear gas being sent off there may be one or two export orders coming in.

    chewkw
    Member

    Note that the Government in China refer to the protesters as Terrorists.

    This will not end well. Sadly the West are powerless and will be ingored by the Chinese.

    As far as I know some of the media people (more like private media/web channels) are actively supporting the protest. The problem is that these media people have another passport(s) or another country(s) they can go to but most of the protesters may not have this choice, and protesting will only put their own livelihood at risk.

    Majority are young people and should put their energy in finding ways to migrate to another country legitimately rather than fighting the lost cause.

    Chinese Armed Police are massing in Shenzhen and China TV has put out a video showing armoured cars and quoting when the Armed Police can be used….

    https://t.co/OHRR3nrXkj

    In what way for this specific case.

    Because European colonialism lead to the power vacuums, instability and loss of face that caused anti-democratic and anti-western populist backlash across East Asia – eg China, Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines.

    Anyhow, the easiest way to get a bit of revenge for this is to start selling Taiwan weapons at knock down prices.

    chewkw
    Member

    Chinese Armed Police are massing in Shenzhen and China TV has put out a video showing armoured cars and quoting when the Armed Police can be used….

    Eventually they will use the army to stop the protest.
    If China can quarantine 20 to 30 million people what is HK? China can relocate 10 million people easily to the Northern ghost city(s) (few of the northern cities are practically empty) of near inner Mongolia. There the people will suffer harsh winter …

    Army will be from different province and will Not have sympathy towards the HK locals. HK police have been rather restrained so far but the protest has not stopped so will be viewed by the politburo as incompetent …

    If China does that then they are idiots, foreign investment is already Crashing, if they hollow out Hong Kong it will crash even further. They will then lash out and further isolate themselves from the global community.

    tjagain
    Member

    Obvious it was going to happen and I don’t think we have seen anything yet. The UKs craven and spineless handover is a real low point.

    The UK could have never have hung on to HK and it didn’t have the right to either.

    The PLA would have marched in and humiliated Britain if we had not ceded it in 1997.

    chewkw
    Member

    If China does that then they are idiots, foreign investment is already BFF dashing, if they hollow out Hong Kong it will crash even further. They will then lash out and further isolate themselves from the global community.

    China knows that foreign investment slow down will just be a temporary hiccup and once normality is restored the foreign investment will start to flow back slowly, and they can wait because there is money to be made.

    tjagain
    Member

    Just as much right Rayban as hanging on to the Falklands or refusing to give the Chagos islanders back their land.

    Spineless and inept. If it had been a small powerless country do you think we would have handed it over?

    The UK just gave the territory back because they were scared of china.

    Foreign investment won’t return as quickly as they think it will, it certainly hasn’t returned to Russia yet. It was going in the right direction for a while but the last decade or so has seen Russia piss their economy up the wall.

    Just as much right Rayban as hanging on to the Falklands or refusing to give the Chagos islanders back their land.

    Spineless and inept. If it had been a small powerless country do you think we would have handed it over?

    The UK just gave the territory back because they were scared of china

    complete and total bollocks – the falklands were an uninhabited island. HK was annexed by a war where we were the aggressors.

    We couldn’t even defeat the North Korean army with the Americans – we’d have never held out in the 90s against the PLA. That’s crazy talk.

    sobriety
    Member

    We did return HK to China against the wishes of the population though – as we’re seeing now.

    chewkw
    Member

    Foreign investment won’t return as quickly as they think it will, it certainly hasn’t returned to Russia yet. It was going in the right direction for a while but the last decade or so has seen Russia piss their economy up the wall.

    Unlike Russia China has been slowly but steadily progressing for the past 50 years in an “orderly” fashion …

    Russia has its boarder with Europe so is perceived as a threat so need to be seen as the bogeyman while China is in the far east not even close to Europe. Also China has never been the aggressors other than trying to deal with their own territory.

    tjagain
    Member

    Rayban – Chagos islands? We are in breach of international law adn UN resolutions in not giving them back

    There is Zero moral differnce IMO between the three situations. Only one have we given back – the one where a major power was involved.

    so go on – whats the moral differnce between Hong Kong, chagos islands and falklands?

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    In what way for this specific case.

    Simply put if it had always been china it would still be china and the inhabitants would know no different. But this had been put better above ⬆️

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Simply put if it had always been china it would still be china and the inhabitants would know no different.

    Or alternately they might be treated like the Uyghurs

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