Apparently there were plenty of loopholes in their systems and procedures that they could exploit to help people they liked and piss off people they disliked.

Even if she was, the attitude is psychologically enlightening.

Not the case either – but the type of person that says that kind of thing, as you say, is the worry – just don’t believe the pap they come out with.

I do think this is a much more complex issue than is often presented. In particular the idea that because someone is begging they must be homeless seems a bit outdated to me. They may have a ‘home’ but still feel the need to supplement their income. Whilst it’s laudable I do feel a little uncomfortable with the number of charities in this sector, as it doesn’t address the root cause.

I meant “European problem” in the context of a significant rise in homelessness across many EU member states – interestingly some of the largest increases have been in countries that haven’t had “austerity” which would seem to point to root causes that are borderless e.g.

– access to drugs / mental health issues linked to this
– family breakdown
– migration
– difficulty in helping the homeless. ( irrespective of the funding and tremendous investment of time and effort from the many amazing volunteer organisations).

“Fake” homelessness is a real thing though – see link below. But when I can see people who’ve clearly been sleeping in hedges all night when I walk through local parks early in the morning there are clearly many genuine homeless people for whom the available help isn’t enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33729766

Not the case either – but the type of person that says that kind of thing, as you say, is the worry – just don’t believe the pap they come out with.

Good to know.

Don’t get me wrong either, most coppers are decent people – I see the MET regularly helping homeless people and chatting in a friendly manner with them.

Must be crap to sign up with a genuine intention of wanting to help people and then feel so powerless in the face of huge social issues like this – and be reminded of that on a daily basis.

timborg160,

What are the name(s) of the charities you are “uncomfortable” with and what makes you so “uncomfortable”? How many do you see?

I completely agree with you regarding the complexities of homelessness.

She told me that around 90% of them all have a house and are on benefits etc.

Take a walk around just before dawn and you can see them still camped out and sleeping in all sorts of places.

I’ll echo what a lot of folk have said. Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester. There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.

The company my wife works for do regular ‘head counts’ and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that. The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze. Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives. The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.

Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives.

+1 my choice being Centrepoint

Re charities – not sure I can name many but I see lots of different organisations working with people at King’s Cross where I work. Most doing good work on the face of it, and I have donated from time to time. I guess my concern stems from the current state of affairs being normalised thereby somehow releasing the govt from its responsibility to sort out the underlying issues.

Was in Manchester a couple of months ago and it was REALLY bad

It’s worse than any time I can recall and I can’t imagine many of them are on £200 a day.

The company my wife works for do regular ‘head counts’ and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that.

Your wife works for the Tory party?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-100-million-plan-to-end-rough-sleeping-by-2027

There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.

… and George Orwell in Down and Out in London and Paris described exactly why so many choose not to ‘accept’ that ‘charity’ together with the shelter afforded with other street people a whole 86 years ago, after having lived like that himself.

Personally, if it was a choice between the Sally Army’s proselytising during a night locked up with drug and disease ridden folk and a shop doorway, I’d probably take my chances in a doorway. If I died of hypothermia, at least it’d be of my own choosing.

This is not a private hotel room and room service being offered here. There are strings. Many folk on the street do not want company or to socialise or to be patronised.

The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.

I very, very much doubt this.

Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester…
…The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze.

So not exactly “making a living”, more “begging to feed a habit”?

In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.

source?

…and around 200,000 more people arriving here each year than we can realistically build accommodation for

source?

cheddarchallenged, your statements mean nothing without sources.

In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.

So they are homeless but can raise enough money (and keep the passport up to date) to get across Europe and the Channel multiple times? I have a feeling that if it was my ‘lifestyle’ choice to spend my life on the streets then I’d probably head to somewhere a little warmer.

Sources – plenty more data for anyone who cares to look.

https://www.indy100.com/article/the-majority-of-homeless-people-in-london-are-foreign-nationals–WkxGkDhwuJW

Trend in uk house building – see graph

https://fullfact.org/economy/house-building-england/

Trend in migration – consistently more people arriving than we can build housing for

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

fussy Member

I’ll echo what a lot of folk have said. Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester. There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.

The company my wife works for do regular ‘head counts’ and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that. The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze. Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives. The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.

Woah there, just hold your horses a minute there Cowboy…!!!

The fella up ^^^^ there said they mostly went to their homes every night. Cant be both surely? And didn’t he say they come swarming into town on the train on a Saturday morning?

In my experience very few choose to sleep rough….. I mean, it must be such a barrel of laughs this time of year so I ‘pose you know best.

I’ve spoken to hundreds and hundreds of homeless people and a tiny minority choose to live on the streets.

I would be very interested to hear your wife’s opinions and experiences on the issue? This company that your wife works for, does it have a name? Is it a company or a charity? Having volunteered for Crisis for the last 7 years I’ve yet to come across such a company.

Giving money to a homeless person that has dependency issues will probably stop them from breaking into your house and stealing your expensive laptop or iPad or similar. Sounds a good idea to bung them a couple of quid after you’ve had a chat.

Homelessness + drug/alcohol dependency + mental health issues = A very very complicated problem for society. Don’t underestimate how close you and your loved ones are to finding yourselves in a similar situation.

LOLs & LOLs @ cheddarchallenged. Your “Plenty of Data” link doesn’t work.

A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.

I’ve never met a single foreign homeless person that fits your narrative. Sauce please?

In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.

source?

Stephen Yaxley Lennon.

Homelessness + drug/alcohol dependency + mental health issues = A very very complicated problem for society. Don’t underestimate how close you and your loved ones are to finding yourselves in a similar situation.

Exactly.

I’ve noticed it’s increased in a big way in Manchester.

Southend-on-sea is probably the worst I’ve seen. Walk round at night!

Homelessness may not be a choice, sleeping on the streets can be. Even with enough beds via a prominent charity in our town we still have a relatively large community of rough sleepers.

These individuals find the restrictions placed on them to stay overnight too hard to comply with.

When your life is so chaotic you choose sleeping under a stairwell over a bed then it’s obvious that it’s a complex problem to solve. Many of those caught in this cycle have mental health or trauma issues that take time and money to address.

What is clear is that it has become a lot more prominent in the last ten years

Depopulation courtesy of the Tories.

Oh and it seems to be predominately young white men.

Walking through Leeds today I was asked for some money to help him eat and find a bed for the night, he said “it’s my birthday too” I asked him what today’s date was but he didn’t know. I asked him when his birthday was and he told me to f off.

I’m not saying he was homeless or not but he wasn’t being truthful. His grey tracksuit and white trainers looked very clean for someone living on the streets.

As above, give money to homeless charities, not to individuals. I don’t buy into the argument it will stop them robbing my house!

The sad truth is there are genuine homeless out there who need help but there are also people taking the p##s. Hard to work out which is which.

In some cities there is a policy that you cannot get food hand outs without a referral. This is because they need to understand why you can’t manage on benefits or why you are not claiming them. The idea is that they will work with you to budget, get clean, find accommodation, teach you to cook, etc.

This has sadly identified a lot of trafficked people / modern slavery and also people who just want free food so they can buy essentials like cigerettes and alcohol.

Why can some people manage on benefits but others can’t? We have a responsibility to these people to help them but in some cases, they don’t want help or don’t know they need help.

The government pledge to end homelessness by 2027 is interesting. Homeless isn’t just an issue of not enough homes, it’s far more complex than that.

It will be interesting to see what happens after Brexit.

I find it really sad some of the views people have about our fellow citizens who are having a hard time in life.

A good friend of mine is a Police officer in Leeds on a small team trying to solve homelessness in the city and all the issues surrounding it. She told me that around 90% of them all have a house and are on benefits etc. They can earn up to £200 a day from begging which is spent on alcohol/drugs. They even get groups of beggars travelling by train every weekend from smaller towns that come into the city on a weekend just to beg then travel back on a Sunday night.
She says they work to try offer them support with addiction problems but virtually every single one refuses to engage with services available to them.

as many have said waht a load of bolocks you speak, perhaps that small group of police would be better employed catching crimials and those who dont have road tax orinsurance on vehicles.

To claim benefits you have to have an address or home and a bank account,probbaly a very small minority do have both an adress and claim benefits,a lot dont, a lot cant afford the high rents and council taxe along with a deposit and food and and furniture.

Many years ago councils had council flats for people to live in at affordable rents, sadly those ahve all gone , mostly given to housing associuations or sold off, whats need is student type housing/hostels, individual basic rooms, with a few staff on site for security and care, with cleaners and washing machines for the residents, funded by Housing bebnnefits instead of housing benefits funding landlords bank accounts

I’ve noticed it’s increased in a big way in Manchester.

Manchester has a serious begging problem. No idea how many are homeless vs how many are “travelling in by train to go begging” as another poster said but the issue is extremely visible now.
It’s one of the worst places in the country for spice as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/29/spice-lethal-epidemic-austerity-drug

To claim benefits you have to have an address or home and a bank account

“You can still claim benefits if you’re sleeping on the streets or in a hostel, even if you don’t have a fixed address or a bank account.”

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/articles/get_practical_help_if_youre_on_the_streets/claiming_benefits_when_homeless

My wife and I went into Cardiff shopping last weekend for the first time in quite awhile, and both commented on the level of rough sleepers. There were people dossed down in doorways, and numerous tents out on the pavements … there was literally a campsite outside St. Davids theatre. We unfortunately walked through David Morgan arcade as paramedics were pronouncing a homeless person dead outside one of the little shops.

As someone working in social services I can reliably state that homeless people are without doubt more visible in Cardiff than nearby Newport. Cardiff really is a magnet for homeless people.

The fella up ^^^^ there said they mostly went to their homes every night. Cant be both surely?

Schroedinger’s rough-sleeper – simultaneously both sleeping rough and cosied up in a flat provided at massive tax-payer’s expense.

There are also immigrants stealing our jobs and claiming benefits at the same time.

I was in Edinburgh and staying in Jurys. The police were moving them on from the hot air vents under the Scotsmans steps, stopped and watched till I was told to move on. Quietish street, no obvious alcohol on display, late at night all equals no need in my opinion.

A report for England has just been released.
Apparently overall numbers are slightly down on last year but up in London. Its has lots of caveats though but will be better for cities.
gov pdf

Yes there may be the odd one but 90% is utter bollocks.

It might be more than the odd one, but these are still vulnerable people, and are still sleeping rough for whatever reason, and there are undoubtedly more people forced to sleep rough now than there were a few years ago.

There’s a BBC3 program on iplayer at the moment about “fake homeless” – whilst some police forces claimed 80% of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping had homes, country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%, despite home office guidelines stating that rough sleepers were not to be prosecuted under these offences. It’s not impossible that rough sleepers had somewhere to go, but what if that was a B&B full of drug and alcohol addicts – would you want to sleep there or would you sleep rough (regardless of whether you were yourself an addict)? Councils that claimed to offer a bed to everyone sleeping rough in fact it transpired would do “all they could” which appeared often to be to put you on a waiting list.

Also, if it’s so profitable and easy, and you’re so jealous of them, why not do it yourself? It’s easy money, right?

Homelessness may not be a choice, sleeping on the streets can be. Even with enough beds via a prominent charity in our town we still have a relatively large community of rough sleepers.

These individuals find the restrictions placed on them to stay overnight too hard to comply with.

When your life is so chaotic you choose sleeping under a stairwell over a bed then it’s obvious that it’s a complex problem to solve. Many of those caught in this cycle have mental health or trauma issues that take time and money to address.

This is the right emotional response.

whilst some police forces claimed 80% of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping had homes, country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%

Those numbers are not inconsistent. 80pc of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping have homes. Also country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%.

I’ve no idea if they’re correct or not but one doesn’t contradict the other.

He’s the show if anyone’s interested (I haven’t watched it):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06r9xbq

My partner volunteers for Bethany Christian Trust in Edinburgh, she was out last night with them.
It’s the first time I’ve seen her truly upset and in tears when she came home.
They found a couple sleeping in a tent in Greyfriars Church yard, she was physically disabled and the man was unwell.
As far as she could make out they had been kicked out of there home after the woman had her disability benefits cut.
Absolutely disgusting for this to be happening in 2019.
Hopefully they will get something sorted for the couple today.
If anybody would like to contribute my partner is doing the Bethany Big Sleep Out in March
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/mairi-findlay?utm_campaign=pfp-share&utm_content=Mairi-Findlay&utm_medium=fundraisingpage&utm_source=Facebook&utm_term=Azyn2Y3Pr&fbclid=IwAR3li_xfueUl4OnML1dqMXQ7XdLKxJ8e3GG2OcClTCFifRpk8GQ_yFq1iUw

I’ve no idea if they’re correct or not but one doesn’t contradict the other.

Agreed, but they do imply it’s more complex than some of the figures suggest.
And it begs the question why are they prosecuting the 20% who have nowhere to go and are rough sleeping?

Agreed, but they do imply it’s more complex than some of the figures suggest.

Yup, we’ve already established it’s complex.

And it begs the question why are they prosecuting the 20% who have nowhere to go and are rough sleeping?

I have no idea, you posted the number.

A plea for donations to a local Charity from me too:

https://www.justgiving.com/stonepillow
https://stonepillow.org.uk/how-to-help/donate/

Sorry if this bothers anyone but GS started it!