Was thinking about new bikes over this year but I absolutely love the suspension of my Remedy 29. What I don’t love is it’s a little bit short, a little bit steep, and the seat tube won’t take a 210mm dropper.

So basically all the stuff I love is in the rear end and all the stuff I don’t is in the front triangle. It already has an angleset and a slackening bushing… So, maybe someone could make me a Remadey front?

It’d have to be very specific on the pivots and BB and seat tube, which might be a pain for people who’re used to doing it their own way, but I don’t think there’s anything really exotic other than that. Really I think anyone that can make a full suss, could do it so it’s mostly about whether they can be arsed.

Skyde used to do this but then skyde died, er, dyde.

No, but I know a company that makes them…

https://carbonwasp.com/

They’ve put out some pretty interesting stuff, and can do pretty much what you want, inc all the design work if needs be.

You should do it just for your “Remadey” pun.

On a more serious note, this will surely end up costing more, and being more difficult to pull off, than buying a whole new frame? Then you get a proper warranty as well as less hassle… Also, your plan seems more wasteful as I’m sure someone would happily continue to use your Remedy, whereas an orphan front triangle ain’t much good to anyone.

Wouldn’t the resulting bike essentially be a modern Fuel EX? (a great bike, btw)

Nah, they’ve moved away from the old suspension design (no idea why, it’s godly… New one pedals better I suppose). Also, this ‘un’s got 140mm rear travel and 160mm coils in the front, I don’t think a Fuel would like that!

I’m very picky about suspension and genuinely haven’t come across anything else that I like as much- helps that is has a works spec shock from atherton racing in it too I guess. (admittedly only because one of them didn’t like it)

Carbon Wasp look a good idea. Though probably right at the most expensive end of the scale, I’ll get in touch with them.

In theory I could 3d print myself a buck and then make my own in carbon… But no, I’m never going to do that, I can barely be bothered to do the dishes.

the seat tube won’t take a 210mm dropper.

Because there’s a suspension pivot on the seat tube.

It’d have to be very specific on the pivots and BB and seat tube

Which will make it impossible to fit a longer seatpost because the suspension pivot is in the way.

It doesn’t, no. The pivot points can’t move, but the seat tube can. Trek put quite a big kink in it but it’s more than it actually needs for tyre clearance even with a 2.5 in it. Weird decision really as it also makes the seatpost angle fairly slack.

It’s frustratingly close to fitting as it is so it wouldn’t require a very big change.

Can you go a size up and move parts?

Someone on here got BTR to make a new front end for their full-sus. Amedias?

It’d have to be very specific on the pivots and BB and seat tube

The pivot points can’t move, but the seat tube can.

You need to decide which of these you want, you can only choose one.

You need to decide which of these you want, you can only choose one.

I disagree here. I think this part of NW’s plan makes a lot of sense.

The problem Trek have with their design is that they need to make each frame size fit a range of human sizes. They also need to bolt their pivot onto the seat tube. They work around this by making their seat-tubes excessively slack so that the effective top tube length is reasonable at average-ish seat height but the seat tube can still accommodate the pivot.

NW doesn’t have to worry about this so much because he only needs his seat-tube to accommodate his preferred seat position. He can put the pivot in the right place then angle the seat-tube to exactly where he wants it.

I think this part of NW’s plan makes a lot of sense.

So you’re saying choose the second option (change the seat tube) and reject the first (don’t change the seat tube). You can’t change it and not change it at the same time.

The guys that build Celtics are based in Balerno I was reading their website yesterday. Basically said they don’t build one offs unless it’s interesting…

“So you’re saying choose the second option (change the seat tube) and reject the first (don’t change the seat tube). You can’t change it and not change it at the same time.”

The first statement is to be “very specific” about the seat tube location, not for it to be identical to the location on the Remedy. It simply has to be positioned so it put the saddle in the right place when all the way up, gives a straight line that doesn’t hit the pivots so a long dropper can fit and has clearance for the tyre and suspension.

I’d be tempted to move it way forwards with a slack actual angle like on a Knolly, that’ll give loads of room. Those designs are annoying when they have to fit lots of different leg lengths but would work well for one specific person.

The guys that build Celtics are based in Balerno I was reading their website yesterday. Basically said they don’t build one offs unless it’s interesting…

I’ve had a couple of repairs from them – they’re really good. They work mainly with steel but also Ti, and are great to deal with.

I love this idea. Looking at those pivot positions you could probably rip off how Cotic did the rocker on the original rocket if you wanted steel- looks like the sort of shape you want, no?

Getting a Ti front end may be easier to do..

http://www.spanner.org.uk

Always fancied doing something similar for my Yeti 5 (but then it got stolen).

Someone on here got BTR to make a new front end for their full-sus. Amedias?

‘Twas indeed me, I’m sure your googlefu could locate the thread, it’s on here and retrobike.

They (BTR) built me a new front end for my Schwinn Straight 6 in 2012, geometry change was what I was after at the time, and although the numbers are now a bit dated it still rides how I wanted at the time.

I’m not sure they’d be up for it now as they have a decent range of their own going now taking up most of their time and I got in right at the beginning. Worth asking though?

I had a lot of trouble at the time as no other builders were up for it, they were either too busy, or thought I was some mad dreamer, or told me i wouldn’t be able to afford it (without even asking me what my budget was), so be prepared to be rebuffed a bit bit if you’re persistent I’m sure you’ll find someone willing to do it, it won’t be cheap but a Remedy front end will be easier that my Schwinn was!

EDIT – link below
BTR Schwinn thing

Ah yeah, I should definitely speak to Five Lands, they’re like 5 minutes ride away. i think they’ll probably say no but you never know.

I’ll try Spanner too, thanks!

I really like BTR, ridden with Tam and Burf at races and that but I don’t like their aesthetic much. Definitely not for this job anyway, I wouldn’t say no to a big mental looking hardtail from them. But Amedias, your bike is one of the ones that first made me think of this.

chiefgrooveguru

Member

The first statement is to be “very specific” about the seat tube location, not for it to be identical to the location on the Remedy.

Yup, that’s it exactly. Basically all the packaging of the pivots and post is in a single complicated tube. It needs to be slightly different but it also needs to be mostly the same.

DickBarton

Member

Can you go a size up and move parts?

I already did 🙂 By modern standards it’s a pretty standard medium but it’s officially a large, and back in the day it was a large large just with a sensible seatmast. Actually I’m pretty sure I could fit on the XL and make it work but they’re pretty old now, not so easy to find.

@northwind. I think it’s great that you know what you want. Go for it.

Another option is you design the whole bike from scratch and get it built in carbon or ti from China. Might be cheaper than just a front triangle.

Make the rear bigger to fit bigger tyres and sell your frame to pay towards it.

In case anyone else is reading this and thinking “maybe I’ll do that”- Carbon Wasp got back to me, they’re expensive of course but they could work direct from the existing frame rather than needing me to come up with exact drawings (and everything ending up being dependent on my ebay calipers and how much I remember from drafting lessons 25 years ago, and the inevitable risk of chinese whispers or miscommunications). They come in at about £1800 in bare carbon, and can paint. Which, on the one hand, is mental money. But on the other, would give me a carbon frame to my exact spec that I could easily be riding for another 5 years (and also, all the original trek parts are still available to buy new as spares, and some parts are shared with the newer slashes and fuel exes, so there’s reliability of supply there too)

Still looking at other options, I’ll post stuff back here. Assuming I can find a steel or ti source, it’s almost bound to be cheaper but I can’t help but think of a yellow and black stripey wasp-bike…

Just to set your expectations, it might not be that much cheaper in steel… the vast majority of the cost is labour regardless of material.

When I embarked on my voyage I repeatedly got told to set aside a grand, and then another grand just in case there’s complications. In the end it wasn’t *that* bad but I got an exceedingly good deal.

(Feel free to PM if you want more info but don’t want to post on open forum)

Didn’t 18bikes in Hope graft a sacecen back end on a steel triangle?

To add yes
18bikes frames

@northwind

They come in at about £1800 in bare carbon,

Is that for just the front triangle or the full frame?

Is that for just the front triangle or the full frame?

Front triangle. He does full custom frames for around £3k

Oooh, 18 bikes, hadn’t thought of those- cheers!

I got out some straight edges and unbolted the shock and it turns out, I don’t need a bent seattube at all- I guess Trek did it mostly for seatpost angle/seat location but if the front end’s longer then having a straight, steeper seatpost will still work. I was thinking about tyre clearance but I’d forgotten that there’s an arch on the seatstay anyway, and the frame is never anywhere close to being the limiting tyre/mud clearance factor.

OTOH, I realised I do need a bent downtube for shock clearance at full compression, which I guess is why Trek made the bike so god-damn ugly.

So it’s simultaneously way simpler and slightly more complex than I thought!

You could add http://www.tedjamesdesign.com to your list of possibles to build. He has a very wide portfolio of bike builds, machines a lot/all of his own dropouts etc & is very much open to trying out new stuff. He mentioned he’d like to do a FS sometime soon. (*he built my HT frame).

OK, just for more info, 18 Bikes will do it but were pretty wary, and specced a 6 month lead time and a £2500 price. They mentioned that while they’ve done it before it was for a staff member’s dream bike and that they’ve never done it for a customer so I think the price possibly had a bit of “don’t really want to” tax.

So I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit… If you went with a steel front triangle, you could go with a 44mm head tube and ZS/EC headset, then take the downtube down to below the BB (so the BB tube sits into the top of the end of the downtube, not the end) – that should give you enough clearance from the bottom of the shock to avoid a bent downtube. Seattube can butt against half of the BB and some of the downtube, lower pivot through the seat tube, upper pivot in front of the seat tube (like the original Cotic Rocket). Very sloping top tube, no bends.

That gives you three straight main tubes plus the BB and head tube, a pivot through a tube and a pivot that needs a part welding in front of a tube. I haven’t drawn it but I think it’ll work and intuitively the strength and stiffness should be fine with fatter steel tubes and won’t weigh a ton.

OK, just for more info, 18 Bikes will do it but were pretty wary, and specced a 6 month lead time and a £2500 price. They mentioned that while they’ve done it before it was for a staff member’s dream bike and that they’ve never done it for a customer so I think the price possibly had a bit of “don’t really want to” tax.

Was going to mention 18 Bikes, was in there a couple of weeks ago and they mentioned they were looking for jobs to keep their frame building enterprise busy paying its way. But that does indeed sound like a fair bit of “don’t really want to” tax as you put it!

I hear where you’re coming from with this project, once you find something you like it’s hard to move on from it, especially when you know exactly what you’d do to improve it for next time. However… We’re not talking about £500 or so here for a new front triangle, which one could argue would be money well spent. We’re talking a monumental amount of cash on something that is going to be so specific as to be of no use to anyone except yourself! You do know that Trek and all the other companies generally only keep spares for these frames (which you may need!) for around 5 years or so, if they fail outside of this period generally an entire replacement frame is offered rather than just specific parts.

My recommendation wholeheartedly would be to get out there and ride a few newer designs, before you spend any cash. I’ve no direct experience of the Remedy design from the era that yours is, but I know how much of a PITA Trek are for using proprietary parts including shocks, mounting hardware etc…

Just as an aside… Have you seen this?

PRIVATEER 161

Or there’s the Bird Aeris AM9…

Similar designs, more modern geometry, off the shelf pricing etc…

Thanks for your input chief- interesting to think of running the downtube down to under the shell like that, not sure I’ve ever seen it done? Trek made it into a massive S bend, apparently for strength, but tbf it makes it look like a shitting dog.

You’re not wrong mboy except that the bike I want doesn’t seem to exist, and the nearest I’ve ever come to it, is this one. There’s a lot of great bikes out there but I’ve never ridden anything that I like the suspension as much as this one, in fact I’ve ended up with coiled 36s so that they can more or less keep up with the rear. It’s basically the reason I’ve put up with it being too short and a little too tall for years.

(i actually replaced it once, with a BMC Trailfox. Fantastic geometry, but I rode it for a few months then went back to the Remedy, as it was one of the first on the modern trend of tons of antisquat and I just couldn’t get on with it. On the testride it shone but in the day to day it grated)

Re spares- actually Trek tend to share parts across models so all of the pivot hardware is still used in more recent models. And they keep their spares available for as long as they exist, essentially- you can still get parts for Fuels back to 2004 frinstance. (they won’t be making any more but equally they won’t be selling many so presumably they’re just sat in a dusty box in Trek HQ beside the ark of the covenant). And in the worst case scenario, they’re so cheap to buy now that if I needed, say, a chainstay it’d be barely more expensive to buy a frame as a donor than it would be to buy one.

Ridden the Aeris but I don’t like lots of antisquat and it put me right off, seems to be the current trend though. Geo was really nice and it’s one of the bikes that helped me towards this decision. That Privateer looks interesting but the seat tube curve looks like asking for trouble with longer droppers? And of course, impossible to testride. Though it’s half tempting to order one and use the 60 day return…

The other approach would be to hunt through the various linkage analyses out there to find something similar to your Remedy.

What drivetrain are you running now? The front chainring size has a big effect on the anti-squat.

“Thanks for your input chief- interesting to think of running the downtube down to under the shell like that, not sure I’ve ever seen it done? Trek made it into a massive S bend, apparently for strength, but tbf it makes it look like a shitting dog.”

No, I haven’t seen anyone do it either but with many alloy frames they seem to like bendy tubes! Or you get something neat like the new Banshee frames with a big forging that’s the base of the seat tube and downtube and BB all in one. But structurally I can’t see problem with this bit of lateral thinking, or any issues with the mitering or welding.

If that’s the sort of money people are asking it’s a shame robot bike co aren’t still going- this sort of thing should be exactly up their street. Given you’d only be looking for half the frame compared to one of theirs you might not be a million miles off that price.

I looked again. Their Hardtail was 2.8k, so not exactly cheap!

“If that’s the sort of money people are asking it’s a shame robot bike co aren’t still going”

They’re still here, just called Atherton Bikes now!

I had a look at them but couldn’t see any examples or prices so wasn’t sure if they were actually building bikes for punters yet.

Columbus makes a 750mm x 38mm down tube with a bend in the end (for fork crown clearance). You might be able to use that wrong way round with the bend at bb. Download catalogue at this link, page 15 and 33. https://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_4_1.htm

I can understand the prices you’ve been quoted – sounds a whole lot of hassle to make, custom machined pivot parts, bespoke jig plates to align everything and at end the customer is bound to be unhappy as it will be either too heavy / stiff or too light / flexy 🙂

You could de-risk it for the builder. Draw the thing up properly. Get the pivots machined up from a decent (weldable) grade of steel. Laser cut some steel jig plates to hold the pivots in alignment. Then they really are just sticking some tubes together.

Or do everything yourself through Bicycle Academy?

How would you describe the suspension feel of your bike?

While I fully support your right to spend a fortune on a new front end, there’s a very good chance that something out there is similar enough to satisfy you.

I had a look at them but couldn’t see any examples or prices so wasn’t sure if they were actually building bikes for punters yet.

There’s no shop or price list yet, but if you get in contact with them, they will discuss what you want.

chiefgrooveguru

Member

The other approach would be to hunt through the various linkage analyses out there to find something similar to your Remedy.

What drivetrain are you running now? The front chainring size has a big effect on the anti-squat.

32 front I think, might be a 34.

I think the issue there, is the reactiv (very regressive damping) shock they used on these. The frame itself has a fair bit of antisquat in the middle ring but it doesn’t feel it. TBF it’s got a lot of marketing surrounding it but to me it’s basically like propedal except better.

I’ve got to be honest and say I don’t know what parts of what I like come from the shock and what parts come from the suspension design, I can take simple info from Linkage etc and compare it to what I’ve felt in the real world but that’s about my limit. They did use the same shock concept in the slash but with a different suspension design (and an even more gimped bent seattube)