Popularity is no arbiter of correctness.

It is when you’re talking about the norms of social interactions (which you were). It’s not ideal, it’s complicated, it’s messy. But it’s reality.

I think this is why this case has captured people’s imagination. It’s showing that maybe you can’t talk in absolutes, free-speech-good / physical-violence-bad. There’s enough of a grey area that a significant proportion of people believe that perhaps the worst speech is maybe worse than the lightest physical assault.

As a recipient, given the choice I’d take a light slap over being tortured by an insult that cuts to the core of my insecurities and repeats in my brain on an hourly basis for months.

I think this is why this case has captured people’s imagination

OTOH I think the ‘why?’ = ‘because celebrity’. If it was Gary down the Kings Arms last week smacking Darren in the chops for having made an overly-familiar quip about Mrs Gaz’s vitiligo then I doubt very much that the world’s imagination would be captured*

*viral videos discounted.

The worst part of al this is Will Smith dancing to his own songs at the after party.

This whole episode is a shame for Jane Campion etc all, who should have been the focus of the news reporting on awards day. Yet again and as always, male violence wins the day (sorry my inner feminist just burst herself out there).

doris5000

Will Smith should have surrendered, and accepted that he’s now the property of Chris Rock. It would be a bummer for his wife and kids, but it would have prevented the violence. And anyway he shouldn’t have been courting NATO all this time. It’s America’s fault really.

Imagine this …

Smith = Russia/Putin
Rock = Pro NATO/EU Ukraine.

Smith used force to teach Rock a lesson with that slap because he does not like the insult. Some argued that Smith is right in his action because Rock insulted his wife. Smith’s action is also seen as natural human reaction.

Violence is rarely the answer. Violence against someone you know won’t defend themselves is both cowardly and the behaviour of a bully.

As for the joke about someone with a disability or illness – I’m not supportive of that. However, did Chris Rock know that Jaffa Pinkett-Smiths short hair was her way of dealing with alopecia…? I certainly didn’t. Besides, for someone with alopecia she looks like she has very even hair growth…

He’s need to have been under a rock (SWIDT) to not know about her alopecia

I must live under a rock.

Me too

I remember reading that he’s worked with her recently. And those shit jokes are going to be carefully scripted, so there’d be plenty of opportunity to make sure you avoided being overly offensive, unless that was the intention.

Frankly it is sad, as pointed out above, that all the attention is on this and not the wonderful films released and praised under this banner. If the oscars needs shock humour to promote its position, time to let it die and more relevant approaches taken.

Besides, for someone with alopecia she looks like she has very even hair growth…

It comes and goes. It can fall out in patches then start growing again, at which point if you wanted to keep it long you’d have a very odd hairdo indeed. Going for a buzz cut allows you to reach even coverage in a matter of weeks rather than the years it would take to get an even long haircut, if it didn’t all start falling out again.

Will smith laughed at the joke at first until he saw his wife giving him the daggers #pussywhipped

“Only a Sith deals in absolutes”

😀

It comes and goes. It can fall out in patches then start growing again, at which point if you wanted to keep it long you’d have a very odd hairdo indeed. Going for a buzz cut allows you to reach even coverage in a matter of weeks rather than the years it would take to get an even long haircut, if it didn’t all start falling out again.

Yes, good point.

Besides, for someone with alopecia she looks like she has very even hair growth…

If you’re going to try and point out such things it’s best you understand a condition. They’re are different types of alopecia, they range from total head hair loss, all body hair, patchy, thinning or sides and back of the head.

@jamj1974 @funkmasterp he’s worked with her, he’s part of the Hollywood scene (I am guessing neither of you are) and she’s been publicising it

I’m very meh about the whole thing, doubtful Smith would have been so forthcoming in handing out a slap if it was a comedian of a larger stature.

Seems like sales of tickets for Chris Rocks tour have err rocketed..

Will Smith proves previous assessment of ‘bit of a chump’ to be good.

@superficial – popularity IS the arbiter of correctness then?

Way to ignore a complete argument:

“Popularity is no arbiter of correctness. Anti-gay attitudes were prevalent in the UK not that long ago – and popularly supported. The removal of abortion rights in some states in the US is gaining momentum because of the popularity amongst those populations. X-Factor is (was?) popular – yet it never produced any music that was any good – and it seems physical violence is popular around here.”

But if you think it’s OK to be anti-gay when that’s popular, to stop women who’ve been raped from getting abortions because that’s popular, and to physically assault people for perceived verbal slights of other people – then knock yourself out.

It turns out your forum name is also the amount of thought you give to an argument.

We weren’t debating what is right, though, you wanted to know about the “basics of normal human interaction.”

Beyond that, please don’t put words in my mouth. I, an intellectual, don’t give in to this populist rhetoric. But I do understand that there comes a point when the intellectuals lose the battle of the talking points.

When you look at the state of the world, Trumpism et al, you realise that for vast swathes of the populace, it’s become OK to say “I understand your logical argument but I feel something different.” We’ve given these people as much airtime as anyone else in recent years.

People know that racism is wrong on an intellectual level, but on some primitive level they allow it to creep in. People know that hitting others is wrong, but they feel that maybe a slap was OK in this context. Whether this is primal or ignorant is somewhat academic – it becomes a futile distinction when it’s the prevailing mood. I find this new world maddening and incomprehensible but to argue otherwise, well, you might as well be shouting at windmills about what is ‘right’.

As always, the ever-populist Dude said it best. I like to think he was talking to the intellectuals. “You’re not wrong, Walter.”

But I do understand that there comes a point when the intellectuals lose the battle of the talking points.

Is that about when they get hit in the chops?

I’m getting a Groundhog Day feeling on this thread.

If you’re going to try and point out such things it’s best you understand a condition. They’re are different types of alopecia, they range from total head hair loss, all body hair, patchy, thinning or sides and back of the head.

Yes Drac, you are right. I held up my hands to my error in my response to Molgrips post literally just above yours.

I am in no doubt that on occasion you and literally everyone else will have posted a response or made a contribution to a conversation where not fully conversant with the facts.

My mum and a female friend of mine both stuffer with alopecia – and I am only familiar with their similar manifestation. My bad.

This isn’t the first time will Smith has punched out a presenter?

People know that hitting others is wrong

Actually, in many cases I don’t think they do.

Everything about the situation between Will Smith and Chris Rock seems a bit crazy.
– I agree with several previous posters that they should move away from the ‘roast’ style hosting approach where anything goes.
– It’s far from great to make a joke about someone’s illness.
– Will Smith definitely overreacted in terms of using violence and his conduct immediately after.
– The organisers failure to deal with an assault at their event – is shocking. Why on earth he was allowed to stay and receive an award is beyond me.
– The clips of Will Smiths speech and post-ceremony celebrations as shown, show someone who is acting very strangely. His behaviour isn’t ‘normal’. I seriously wonder if he is unwell – he seemed vulnerable and ‘brittle’, like he was wearing a mask that was slipping.

Personally, I feel a level of pity for him.

The organisers failure to deal with an assault at their event – is shocking. Why on earth he was allowed to stay and receive an award is beyond me.

Just been reported on the radio that they did ask him to leave, but he refused.

IMHO, they shouldn’t have announced his award, but I’m sure it was all a bit of an on the hoof panic about what to do.

@jamj1974 @funkmasterp he’s worked with her, he’s part of the Hollywood scene (I am guessing neither of you are) and she’s been publicising it

I’m Steven Spielberg.

Personally, I feel a level of pity for him.

If you read his biography, that quickly goes away. I suspect he does have issues based on how a life of self serving arrogance and the impact on others that’s been coming to light in recent years is weighing on his mental capacity to deal that, the breakdown of his prior public persona, marital issues, Jadas illness and an abusive upbringing.

I’m Steven Spielberg.

Loved working with you on The Color Purple.