Ouch, reading this has given me a bit of a fright…

https://galebernhardt.com/blogs/news/74370501-the-fit-heart-s-story-recognizing-signs-of-a-silent-killer

Annnnd?

We all die, we all live a life (whatever that may mean) and we all die.

Humans aren’t built to last forever.

Fact.

read that.   and as a recipient of open heart surgery, i hope i have now dodged the bullet.

bikebouy

…Humans aren’t built to last forever…

Nor are bikes. I presume you don’t oil your chain or check your tyre pressures…

I tend to worry more about Commotio cordis.

I found that article remarkably useless. These events are fairly rare among fit people, symptoms are subtle and easily missed. Shrug.

People, please pay attention to this.  I recently found out I have a severely failing mitral valve, a compromised aorta and damage to my septum.

I’m 43 years old.  I’ve exercised 3 times a week and more for the last 23 years minimum.  I have a healthy diet, normal cholesterol and until fairly recently was not overweight.

If I had carried on without this being identified, I would either die a slow and unpleasant death from heart failure or a very rapid death from aortic dissection.

Apparently I would have been diagnosed earlier has my high base fitness not masked the onset of symptoms…

Get yourself checked out!

And yes BikeBouy, we all die when our bodies wear out.  But at 43 with a daughter of 13 and two boys about to start secondary school in two weeks – I’m not particularly keen to be pushed off my perch yet.  And that’s from someone who has felt suicidal during more than a few periods in my life – even recently.

“Frank symptoms and signs in addition to nausea such as the sense of impending doom, sweating, shortness of breath (without exercise), feeling extremely tired, fullness or pain in the chest, back, shoulders, arm (either right or left), neck or throat are clear signs to get to the emergency room immediately.”

Can also tick most of these boxes with anxiety.

Anyway, simply a case that this guy and many people have an underlying condition and it’s their fitness that’s masking it, combined with dismissing symptoms. Age has less to do with it, other than stuff like atherosclerosis may have more of a cumulative effect by 50.

Similar with stuff that raises blood pressure. It’s not in itself dangerous, but if you have an existing condition then higher BP may be a risk factor.

Could be worse:

Flesh eating bacteria that causes genitals to “rot away” pops up in the UK

Problem with getting checked out for unknown hidden stuff is you won’t get that on the NHS. Not without symptoms of concern enough to justify sending you to specialists for tests. Standard bloods won’t pick a lot of the stuff up.

Turn up to your GP with breathlessness which can’t be explained by asthma etc…   That will get you some more comprehensive tests pretty quickly in most cases.

50 does seem to be an age where people die.  Get past fifty and you will see 70 or 80.   Just where I work I can name 5 people I know who have died at around age 50 in the last year.  A lot of people get cancer around that age for some reason

There’s no particular bump in death rates around age 50 but there is a steady increase over time such that you are much more likely to hear of people dying beyond that age.

Can also tick most of these boxes with anxiety.

Thats not especially helpful though. The crux of the article is valid; don’t dismiss symptoms just because you think you are fitter than average – Coronary atherosclerosis is no respecter of physical fitness. Even if you are 45, eat well, and exercise regularly, there is still the possibility of significant disease, unfortunately. As the article says, a lot of people “present” with cardiac arrest as their first symptom, so you can’t do much about preventing that, but a significant proportion of people have symptoms in advance and unfortunately those symptoms are often ignored. As some people have said, it’s still a fairly rare event.

So it shouldn’t be read as a scary story and certainly doesn’t mean that we should all stop exercising (exactly the opposite in fact), but it’s a warning to remain vigilant, which I think is worth some attention.

so I have a bunch of those symptoms and have been diagnosed with anxiety.  I’ve had a blood test for iron / vit deficiency (fine) and and ECG (which showed a low heart rate but not unexpected due to being / used to be quite fit)

what other things do I ask for to get “checked out” whilst I am treating it as anxiety I still think.there is.something physical wrong

a significant proportion of people have symptoms in advance and unfortunately those symptoms are often ignored.

True but they’re ignored because they are part of normal life. Everyone gets a headrush when they stand from time to time. Everyone has pain in arms/shoulders/chest from time to time.

It’s an unfortunate (and scary) fact that some (most?) causes of death initially present minor symptoms that can be easily explained or dismissed and it’s only in hindsight that it’s clear what they were signalling.

I seem to have become a fully paid up member of the “worried well” in recent years – the doc told me that symptoms that don’t get worse with exercise are generally not an indicator of heart disease. I’m clinging to that rule of thumb.

Stuff happens around this age, and it’s recognised by the medical profession as in these two f’rinstances:
Up to age 45 I had one medical when I first applied for my lorry and bus driving licences, after 45 I’m invited in every 5 years
At age 55 I was offered bowel scope screening, and at 60 will be offered bowel cancer screening every two years

I’m 51.

I’m very fit compared to most “standards” on a fitness scale (whatever scale or current barometer for pegging against is)

I had a serious stomach complaint about 3 years ago, recurring every 5/6mths and yet when I approached the GP about it was brushed off with “its indigestion, how much do you drink? And do you drink black coffee?” Horsecrap GPs tend to dribble out of thier mouths when confronted with any remotely serious complaint other than “you’ve got a cold”

I was admitted to hospital because of my stomach issue, I went to A&E late one night thinking I was have a heart attack. Dully dragged through all sorts of tests, and conclusion was they thought I had cancer of the stomach.. 2 years later after my initial conversation with my GP who fobbed me off, as they do….

Those tests included all sorts of poking and prodding and monitors and extractions of liquids.

I was kept in for a week whilst the Doctor tried to figure out why my resting heart rate was 34bpm.. I was asked on many occasions about fitness and yet somehow the words “I ride bikes a lot, I trail run a lot, I do this every other day.. a lot” didn’t sink into the testing grey matter of 3 consultants.

It took a triage nurse to diagnose the issue, a floppy esophagus that wasn’t keeping my over produced stomach juices inside my stomach and then inflaming my downtube and causing it to contract wildly…

Anyway, my point to all this is..

Test all you like, go see your GP but pretty much don’t believe a word they say because invariably they’re bored or couldn’t GAS or perhaps wishing they were on the Golf Course or perhaps pissed off thier budgets don’t match expectations.

You are limited by the blob between you and some decent care.

Be pragmatic, you will die at some point. Make sure your affairs are in order before you go.

IMO

In a way I’ve always thought I’ve been lucky in that having a congenital heart issue has meant that I’ve been tested once a year for most of my life and have assumed that anything else nasty would have been found. Now that I’m over 50 it has worsened considerably in the past few years and I’m due open heat surgery in a few weeks time to replace the faulty bits. I do know that my arteries are clear and they’ve not found anything else of concern so assuming all goes well with the op I’m expecting not to have to worry about my heart as I get older. The rest of me is another matter of course.

Thats not especially helpful though

It’s relevant if you have had anxiety and just about anything you could go to your GP for is then easily dismissed as anxiety, or you question yourself whether that ache or pain is something or “just anxiety” (which is still something). Got brief check (listen to heart, take BP, that’s it) and offered SSRIs and counselling instead.

the doc told me that symptoms that don’t get worse with exercise are generally not an indicator of heart disease.

That’s how I look at it, though important word there is “generally”, as still could be issues. Myself I’m aware of genetic factors with atherosclerosis. I’m totally unaware of the condition of my arteries though. Had a range of “bloods” done few years back and only got “no news is good news”. They wouldn’t even tell me the actual results, just nothing of concern. Would like to monitor cholesterol levels but not sure the best way to do that, but also not sure it’s really that helpful. As said with the genetics, family doesn’t have particularly high cholesterol levels as far as I know, but atherosclerosis has been an issue.

I think the “increased risk at 50” thing is down to perception rather than actual facts and figures.  Get to 50 and most think “I’m getting on a bit now” then one or two of your contemporaries pop their clogs or there’s someone well known who dies and you take notice whereas at 30 or 40 you didn’t.

Anecdotally I’ve known people who’ve dropped dead at ages ranging from 15 to 65. It happens.

@bikebuoy – true to some extent and IME experience it’s a bit of a lottery. When I lived in the South Lakes the local practice was dominated by OAPs so if I turned up it was a novelty and the GP took an interest. I returned from Pakistan one time with a stomach bug problem and the GP was all excited as it turned out that he was interested in tropical medicine.

Conversely when I first went to our local practice with my hip I was seen by a locum and it was “You’ve severe arthritis, you are too young for a replacement. Go away” A year later another locum went “Why weren’t you referred?” and six weeks later I was seeing the local hip specialist.

So How do we prevent artherosclerosis or is it basically something we all wil have to some extent as we age.

Ive read that everyone over the age of 40 will have some degree of plaque in the arteries…and also that no we dont…..

If we do how do we stop it from progressing .. and if not does that mean if you have a little at 50 is it inevitable that angia or heart attack is the result

You are limited by the blob between you and some decent care.

Be pragmatic, you will die at some point. Make sure your affairs are in order before you go.

IMO

This I totally agree with.

symptoms that don’t get worse with exercise are generally not an indicator of heart disease. I’m clinging to that rule of thumb.

This may be true in some occasions but not all.

“How do we prevent artherosclerosis?”

NHS artherosclerosis link

How do you go about getting these things tested?  Turn up to my local GP and tell them I read an article about heart condition and I want to get checked out?

Last time I went to the doctor for some scan results I told them about a mole on my shoulder that had grown recently, I was told it s a wart and the doctor kept mentioning about how they regular see a dermatologist.

Anxiety about ‘unseen’ health problems is debilitating in itself, and long term may even contribute to the things you’re worrying about. Nearly everyone has a measure of control over their cardiovascular health, but everyone will have also have inherited a level of susceptibility to common killers such as heart disease and various types of cancer.

If you have a significant family history of early heart disease, even one which appears to be explained by the lifestyle of the relatives involved, it may well be worth keeping a check on markers such as cholesterol levels and blood pressure as you get into your 40s. But this kind of monitoring is fallible because we don’t fully understand the relationship between genetic and lifestyle risks.

The upshot is that you can load the dice in your favour by eating well, exercising and cutting down on the vices, but you can’t entirely prevent these processes, and worrying about them unduly may impact your day-to-day, and even longer term well being.

Crikey, I think the point is the op was trying to make was that don’t assume because you’re active and fit into you’re 50’s that you have totally de-risked suffering from heart deseise so if you have symptoms then check them out rather than wave them off.

of course as we get older we might have the odd dizzy spell or feel a bit on a low ebb and that is probably normal, but if those symptoms persist then get yourself checked out.

something is going to kill each and every one of us eventually but it would be a bit silly if you were to die early from something you might have been able to detect and prevent or manage. Going through life ignoring everything and popping your clogs ten or twenty years before your time isn’t good for anyone, not you or those you leave behind.

I’m due open heat surgery in a few weeks time

Good luck with that Alphabet, I had a mechanical valve fitted four years ago in Bristol.

My top tip is to take the laxatives when they are offered on the daily drugs round and have bran flakes for breakfast. Morphine makes you constipated and straining on the loo when you have just had your chest opened up hurts like billy-oh. If you haven’t gone after a few days the nurses are likely to give you a laxative suppository, everybody who I saw have one ended up crapping themselves in their bed, not a pleasant option!!!

Anything else you want to know then just ask.

I may get in contact Natrix.  I’m in the same position.

Going through life ignoring everything and popping your clogs ten or twenty years before your time isn’t good for anyone, not you or those you leave behind.

Exactly.

I like the idea that ‘most of STW?’ consists of ‘fit people’. It reminds me of an article I read about delusional ideas being common in later life men who ride bikes (most of STW?)

For all those who think they need testing (and I reckon it’s a good idea) I’d come up with something more dramatic than “read it on the internet”.

Nearly decade ago (40’s) I fainted on several occasions (not doing anything specific really) and got dismissed by the GP..

By chance I fainted on Waterloo station, police medic by the time I came round and ambulance, ECG etc. and opportunity to go to St Thomas’ immediately…

As this happened pretty often and I really just wanted to be home and see my kid I managed to talk them into letting me go home.  (Well technically I called my solicitor who’s my cousin but the would eventually have probably let me leave anyway)

My perspective on this was that I passed out quite often, the GP thought it was nothing so why the rush … why was this time any different.

Retrospectively that turned out to be a big mistake.… not because anything happened but because I then spent a year grinding through the NHS… cancelled appointments .. lost blood tests etc. take 1/2d off work to see specialist who then say’s Oh, the blood tests didn’t come back… (after 6 weeks)… make another appointment (next one was 3 mo)

Although I gave up BEFORE actually getting a proper diagnosis, the positive was lots of stuff was ruled out.

The unofficial (nurse) diagnosis was POTS… I added salt to my diet and my blood pressure got almost acceptable (low but you can’t get away from a lifetimes exercise that easy) and took on some physical exercises to prevent it.  It’s only happened once since… near the beginning… and doesn’t happen at all when pedalling..

Obviously this will depend where you live but I’d be tempted to have a similar type ‘incident’ and get accelerated.  I wish I’d taken the opportunity now…

I like the idea that ‘most of STW?’ consists of ‘fit people’. It reminds me of an article I read about delusional ideas being common in later life men who ride bikes (most of STW?)

Well, I used to be – fit that is.  I have always maintained a strong discipline in being delusional.

This might prompt me to make an appointment to discuss palpitations.

This might prompt me to make an appointment to discuss palpitations.

Oh god, are palpitations bad? I’m pretty sure I get them at night after a load of crisps+curry+beer and I had quite a dramatic 1 hour period of palpitations when I was dehydrated recently…

I may get in contact Natrix

JamJ, feel free, anything I can do to help.

There is some comprehensive advice here http://forum.achaheart.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8506&sid=6570dba0db9bc1b8af050a13df054084 it is American biased but fairly sound.

@natrix
<div class=”bbp-author-role”>Thanks for the heads up. I’ll make sure I take anything they offer me.</div>

Thank you natrix.

Hitting 50, the silent killer for fit people

Well yes of course fit people can die.  The fat person who drinks daily and smokes, well they had it coming to them, but its a shock when a fit person dies, it is almost like all those hours of keeping fit has betrayed them.

We will all die at some point.

And Christ don’t be one of those people who turns up at the GP saying I read this article therefore test me because I am at risk