Hi-Fi Question – Headphone Socket Same As Line Out?

OK, it’s not quite Hi-Fi, but I’d like to get a bit closer.

I replaced my old amp with a Yamaha streaming amp. CRX-N470D. There are a lot of good things about it: from a single source I can stream Spotify Premium and 6 Music straight over the Ethernet cable from the router, it has an integral CD player and it’s operated by a good remote controller or a very good phone app. That’s all I want to do with it, really. Dead simple to use.

However, playing into my speakers, which are nothing amazing, some Mordaunt Short MS 5.20s, it’s a bit disappointing compared to my old Denon amp with Chromecast. And I’ve spent the last few months looking to see what else I can get to replace it. Answer, nothing much. The streaming amplifiers all seem to have pretty terrible phone apps to control them and I’d need to get a separate CD player. I’ve realised that the simplicity of the one box setup is a real advantage. Oh, and they’re all really expensive.

I suspect it’s the measly 22 watt amp that’s letting the side down. The amp doesn’t have a line out facility but it does have a 1/4″ headphone socket which turns off the speakers when plugged into.

If I connected that output into a decent amplifier, would I bypass the power amp or would all the tonal and dynamic damage already have been inflicted by then?

Normally, headphone out is amplified, line out is unamplified to feed into an external amp

The headphone out is modified by the volume control, but is a is still at a minimal level so I was hoping it didn’t go into the power amp stage.

As long as you can manage the gain appropriately it should be fine to use as a line out IME. Doubt it would bypass the amp though

You’ve got a subwoofer output, adding a sub might be an option?

Also,

Have a look through your settings. On my Yamaha there’s an option for “large” or “small” speakers and it greatly affects the dynamic range.

Also also,

Why are you tossing around with CDs on a streaming amp? Rip them somewhere and then stream them, you don’t need a CD player.

My little Yamaha doesn’t have any of those “fancy” features, so I’m still keen to get an answer to the original question from somebody who knows a bit about the architecture of modern kit.

I’m from an age when I’d take the back off a valve “wireless” and solder a coax input cable to the volume pot to turn it into an amplifier. No more Hilversum or Stavanger on long wave, but my cassette player would have a much woodier tone!

And I’ve got a lot of CDs. Too many for the cost, time and effort to get a NAS set up and populated considering that it’s only now and then that I or Mrs BigJohn spots one we fancy hearing again.

but my cassette player would have a much woodier tone!

Very grainy?

I don’t think anyone can say with certainty without looking at a schematic or opening the box.

If the headphone out does bypass the main amp then it will probably go through a headphone amp instead. The headphone amp will probably not be of a higher quality than the power amp.

And I’ve got a lot of CDs. Too many for the cost, time and effort to get a NAS set up and populated considering that it’s only now and then that I or Mrs BigJohn spots one we fancy hearing again.

I spent A LOT of time ripping CDs so I know the pain. However I also have a stack of vinyl which was never converted. I decided that by far the best option was to subscribe to a music streaming service.

I think I’ve decided to put my current amp on eBay* and get a better Yamaha network amp, with a separate CD player (that I’ve got in the garage).
The reason I’m sticking to Yamaha is that I’m really happy with their app and remote and the simple and direct connection to Spotify and internet radio via ethernet. And it seems some of the more powerful amps are quite good (good enough for my ears, anyway).
Unless somebody tells me otherwise…

*I’ve had some good experiences with eBay recently. I sold a piece of woodworking machinery for almost the cost of a new one and this weekend I sold a Trangia camp cooker set, which I’d just used once to boil a kettle, for more than I paid 2 weeks ago in Millets.

And I’ve got a lot of CDs.
…
direct connection to Spotify

How many CDs do you have that aren’t on Spotify? I consolidated (gave away) my collection a few months back, I kept the ones that weren’t on Spotify or were otherwise ‘special’ (signed, local bands, that sort of thing) and it’s a single shelf of a Billy. If I were to discount the specials, I’d be surprised if it ran to double figures.

cost, time and effort to get a NAS set up

You don’t need a NAS. Don’t you have a computer in the house? There’s plenty of media server apps out there, total cost = zero.

Oh, and,

I’m a huge fan of Yamaha amps, I wouldn’t have anything else.

I’m not familiar with your speakers, but I listened to a pair of Mordaunt Short floorstanders alongside the TDL RTL IIs that I currently own & they were nowhere close in terms of quality.

Maybe you just need a better set of speakers?
Are they particularly hard to drive?

My TDLs are powered by a 20w NAD amp & there is plenty of power there, so I’d be surprised if the power amp side of things is letting the sound down. Unless like I say, the MS speakers are particularly hard to drive.

Most hi-fi places will let you take your kit along to try stuff out with, so might be worth ringing somewhere like Richer Sounds and seeing if you can try a few speakers out & see if that’s the problem before getting rid of the system?

Usually, the headphone out is usually designed for a load of about 32 ohm and attenuates based on the volume control. Whereas the line out is intended for a high impedance load and does not attenuate.
Where exactly the headphone signal comes from depends on topology, but it usually works ok as a line out when you’ve got the volume control in the right position. In OP’s case they just need to get a cable to connect the headphone jack into an input of the old amp, so only costs a few quid to take a a punt.

What to do with a redundant (but working) Mycloud NAS drive

Thanks all for suggestions but I think I’m going to get a bigger and better Yamaha network amp and keep it simple.

Headphones will be amplified and I suspect that will be the same on other Yamaha network streamers.

Try some different speakers first, those MS may well be not doing the streamer justice. That kind of device tends to have a certain ‘sound’. Audition some monitor audio or b and W at a dealer and take your streamer with you before you pay for another streamer and find the same problem.

If you use it as pre amp I would have thought you would get the same sound issues.

I run a Yammy RN303D in the garage, which does what you need it to.

And the MS speakers aren’t actually that bad (I have some) but clearly better speakers will sound, well, better. Have a look for some s/hand Dynaudios. I’d also suggest trying a cheap REL sub too, like a Quake, just to see how that contributes.