My daughter is in S5 so could do with starting to think out university courses. The problem is, she is a bit meh. We really need to find her a course which she will be really inspired by otherwise she’ll just mope around. The problem is that there is such a massive range and you don’t know what you don’t know.

Are there any good sites or resources which will help her narrow down options? Obviously in Scottish Uni because we are not daft or loaded enough to pay fees in England.

Before anyone suggests not going to to Uni, that is not an option. My wife has four degrees and wouldn’t entertain out kids not studying at HE level, its not even worth that argument.

Cheers

The problem is, she is a bit meh.

Why the rush? The UCAS deadline for this year was only this week.

Before anyone suggests not going to to Uni, that is not an option. My wife has four degrees and wouldn’t entertain out kids not studying at HE level, its not even worth that argument.

4 dgrees? Maybe she should have taken more time to consider what she wanted to do before starting them? 😉

My wife has four degrees and wouldn’t entertain out kids not studying at HE level

Your wife has four degrees yet your daughter is ‘a bit meh’. I couldn’t see a life where I would entertain *insisting* an adult does what I tell them just because I did it. Surely you should be working with your daughter to find what she wants to do, not find out what course at Uni she wants to do – you can’t inspire her, she has to be inspired (and dedicated and enthusiastic).

Not sure its your wife’s call and in my limited experience of teenage girls pushing them in a direction is doomed to fail. 😉

Any family/older friends she can talk to about their experiences and courses? What are her interests, outdoors, indoors? What is her nature? Any subjects she enjoys currently or activities out of school?

My daughter was dead keen and I drove her to multiple uni’s – In the end she applied to none!

If she doesn’t know what she wants to do, why go (now)?

I went to uni straight from school, because I was on the standard ‘bright kid’ GCSE/A-level/Uni conveyor belt. I landed at uni, doing essentially mechanical engineering, and realised that I didn’t want to be there. I was on a course I wasn’t that bothered about, living in a crappy student house in crappy city (sorry Coventry), and, probably, was too young/naive to really ‘get’ the student thing. I was properly unhappy, so I quit after a couple of months.

I got a part time job at home, then did a summer on Camp America, came home and got a ‘proper’ job in a bank. After two/three years of that I decided I now actually wanted to go to university, so did.

Its not about insisting, just nudging. If we help her find a course that she’ll get excited by, this will help her focus on how to get there. She wants to go to Uni but is a bit overwhelmed by choice, we are just trying to help her narrow down to some areas and ideas.

**actually, scrap that **

I would be having a talk with your daughter about what SHE wants and then with your wife about managing expectations. Forcing your daughter into something is never going to end well. She could have a few years of work and look at uni afterwards after she’s had a few life experiences.

My other half just made a good point, she also has 4 degrees, I have zero, we both earn the same.

after two/three years of that I decided I now actually wanted to go to university, so did.

Good reminder that going to Uni straight from school is not necessarily the right thing. She is quite young so that is not a bad shout.

I’II chip in and say that when I went to Uni as a mature student I was amazed at the number of people there because it’s where the HE conveyor belt ends up, doing courses they had little interest in and basically wasting what is an amazing opportunity. If she doesn’t know what she wants to study (I say that because a lot of degrees don’t translate into careers) forcing her into a course she’s no interest in at a Uni she doesn’t care about is unlikely to achieve great results.

Okay, I’ll say it.

Your wife needs to get a grip. Uni is hard, its a proper shitter if you don’t want to be there and can lead to huge mental health problems. The expectation of me going to uni (not by my parents to be fair) **** me up in ways i am only now beginning to understand after almost failing a second degree.

If i was giving advice to your daughter I’d honestly tell here to ignore your expectations and do what she wants, she’ll get there in the end. You’re supposed to want the best for her not shoe horn her into something she may never want to do!

Sounds like she needs some sort of work experience placements

speak to friend, colleagues etc see what they can offer

Also degrees are quite modular so theres flexibility within them, as well as the possibility of changing courses

What made me motivated to get a degree were the absolutely grim agency jobs I did in 6th form summer hols- 8 hour shift packing boxes, desperately trying not to make the soulcrushing mistake of checking the clock every 3 minutes……

If shes not sure how about a year out, see if she can het a job somewhere to give her time to think about it. Are you sure she wants to go and hasnt just been conditioned into thinking this by your wife?

As for courses, unless she wants to be a vet/architect/doctor etc, I’d strongly advise that she not give two $hit$ about the ‘career’ aspects of course selection, because it rarely, if ever, matters. She should do something that she finds interesting, simple as that.

She’s still got a bit of school to do and work out a few things in her own life, S5 means she’s got another year to think this out, probably best to start working out what best suits her ambitions and of course, mapping that against reality.

Personally, i got an apprenticeship out of school, as did most who were decent enough, but couldn’t afford uni, that gave me everything i needed at the time to be useful to build my career, through that career i’ve done higher learning through the levels, up to L7, as that’s what my current job required, and what i achieved via part time and through my current employer.

The question really is, where does she see herself in 5 years time, and how does she get there, i used to think that was one of those daft interview questions, but the older i get, the more i realise a lot of people don’t either have a 5 year plan through mentoring a few at work, if you haven’t a clue what you want to be, then you have no understanding of how to get there, and what is needed, qualifications wise to achieve that against the other candidates out there.

It does sound like you guys need to sit her down and just chat about the plan, and as above, work out if this is viable, and then work out the route to getting there

I’ve taught in a sixth form college for the last 20 years so I’ve talked to hundred of kids about this, and my eldest has just gone to uni in Scotland, so I might be able to help.

I don’t know the Scottish system – am I right in thinking she’s got another year of school left? (Exams in Summer 2023?)

What subjects is she doing? Any preference for coursework vs exams?

If i was giving advice to your daughter I’d honestly tell here to ignore your expectations and do what she wants, she’ll get there in the end. You’re supposed to want the best for her not shoe horn her into something she may never want to do!

+1. It’s her life not yours

If she doesn’t know what she wants to do, why go (now)?

Absolutely this.

I was pushed to go to uni in mid/late 80s, first in family etc etc, pushed down a science route rather than the humanities I enjoyed and was better at, ended up drifting through A levels I wasn’t interested in, didn’t get the grades I needed and ended up at a poly I didn’t like doing a course I wasn’t interested in. Had a breakdown very shortly afterwards, ended up back home full of bitterness, anger and self loathing that has never gone away. Seriously, if you and the wife are comfortable with that as a potential outcome, good luck to you both, and God help your daughter.

Our kids are now 18 and 15. Both very bright, neither has a clue what they want to do career wise. We’ve supported them to do the subjects and out of school activities that they’ve enjoyed and been good at.

Eldest is now at Cambridge studying music, hoping that an Oxbridge degree will see him through if the music doesn’t work out.

Youngest is only just finding her thing. Maths and physics has generated an interest in astronomy and astrophysics. So maybe she’ll go that route. Or she might pursue her gymnastics coaching.

So long as they’re happy. Don’t pressure them. Give them the freedom to try and see how it plays out. £50k debt for something she doesn’t really want to do? Madness. Hopefully just yours and not hers.

Apologies if I went ranty. My personal experience has made me bitter, and yes, I know I’m fortunate my kids are doing well.

she’ll get there in the end.

Just for, you know, a sort of related story, my sister is incredibly intelligent but hated school (she was pretty badly bullied I think). Left with fairly ropey O-levels, did some living and working in the States, then bits and bats of fairly nothing jobs all over the place, then in her late twenties decided she wanted to go to Uni. Given her lack of many/any academic qualifications at that point she did some ‘access courses’ at a local FE college, and went to Warwick to do a BA in American Studies.

Two years ago I went to the ceremony where she was awarded her PhD, and she’s now a lecturer at two different German universities.

So, well, there you go.

 The problem is, she is a bit meh.

We have a few pals of our sons who went to uni on a ‘meh’ ticket or parental insistence. Lets just say I think that most of them struggled, from dropping out, to mental health, to seeing party as the priority.

I see others kids who knew what they wanted to study and where that may take them. Most of them seem to be settled and enjoying.

We are of the view that SAAS funds are there only once, and that any course should be something you are interested in and passionate about, because then you will make a success of it and not squander the funding.

I also don’t see the rush at S5 – there is S6 and possibly a year out to go? I just don’t get why we expect such young adults to have much of an idea about ‘the rest of their life’.

.

And as for not having the argument with your wife, your daughter may just decide that your wife doesn’t have the say over her life pretty soon…

.

Eldest_oab – was planning maths or engineering, and a few visits did help clarify what he didn’t want to do (naval architecture, civil engineering, electrical engineering), and then two visits made him go ‘oooooo’, but in S6 not S5. So in his case this worked – but he is straight A, motivated intrinsically and laid back as they come lad.

Middle_oab – struggles academically and for a direction. He managed an amazing work experience, organised via STW(!), at Industrial Light and Magic and spent a week in London working on a few films such as Aladdin… He still wasn’t sure, and is very young (should have held him back a year). So he took photography Diploma – creative, engaging, at college, didn’t bite into SAAS funding. Now on a graphic design and media course, possibly look for a job next year.

Youngest_oab – S5, not sure what he wants to do at all. Bright lad, but somewhat worn down by the last couple of years. Ready to leave school next year. Likely to head to work and a year or two travel to really find who he is, what he likes to do, and come back to train / educate / other employment later.

(Why does anyone have four undergraduate degrees, surely you go Masters, PhD, Prof….?)

As an aside… Eldest won Dux medal (top student in a school). At the end of the award ceremony I was ambushed to ask what tutor we used, because he *must* have had a tutor.

After a few “we don’t” discussions, I decided to give them a name for the only tutor / coach that the lad had over the previous three years.

“Who was his tutor? We must employ them for Priscilla / Tobias…!”

“Ben Cathro – he has a coaching session with him most holidays….”

😉

As many people have said, why force her into it. Ours have a long way to go before we even think about uni but even then we won’t be forcing them into it, after all it’s their life it’s going to affect, not ours.

Both myself & mrsmatt both ended up at uni because that’s just what you did. Neither of us finished, not because it was too hard, simply because once we’d been there a while we decided it wasn’t what we wanted to do. There is no way I would force our kids to go through that if they didn’t want to.

We’ve had to let our daughter make her own choices and, unfortunately sometimes errors are made.

She’s a ‘year’ late going into Uni as she’s been following where her boyfriend wants to go. she’s the academic one, he isn’t – caused some arguments.

She initially went to a ‘unknown’ tiny college to study A level equivalent in Game Art whilst her boyfriend did a years course at the same place, plus re-sat English and Maths (only passed English).

The course was poor – we did tell her before she started. So, one year done, she’d passed the application date for most colleges. We made some quick phone calls and got her in at a local college. But, she decided she didn’t want to go after this, as boyfriend couldn’t get in (poor GCSEs). So she went to a different college, 90 minutes commute away, but is doing well – boyfriend goes to this college too.

Roll on to now, she’s picking Universities. Guess what, only going where they ‘both’ can get in – he’s calling the shots again.

Thing is he’s going to struggle to get in, he’ll have the points but unless the course is under subscribed he won’t do too well. His bail out option is at a local university, but for a foundation degree. Fortunately, one of daughter’s choices is at the Uni I work at – different Uni from the foundation course, but both near each other.

We’re awaiting a disaster TBH, especially if he doesn’t complete the first year.

But, all you can do is support them and take a look. So far been to York St John, tiny Uni, but very nice and in a lovely city. Staffordshire Uni – good campus, but Stoke is a bit dull and daughter wasn’t too impressed. UCLAN another choice, and so is Man Met.

We’ve gone through the stay local it will keep costs down. He doesn’t like where he lives so want’s out from home. It’s really difficult when someone is calling the shots about your daughter’s education.

We can’t see him holding a job down, as he recently packed a part time job in within days as a colleague was a it ‘off’ with him.

I was pushed to go to uni in mid/late 80s, first in family etc etc, pushed down a science rout

You are me.

ended up drifting through A levels I wasn’t interested in, didn’t get the grades I needed and ended up at a poly

Ha ha, that’s me again.

Our kids are now 18 and 15. Both very bright, neither has a clue what they want to do career wise

No, I’m serious, are you stalking me? 😀

Talking to my eldest about her options has made me realise how much I cocked up the early part of my life. I don’t regret it – what would be the point – but if I hadn’t been expected to go on to HE, I might have found what I was really interested in a lot sooner. Or maybe not. I didn’t have the breakdown you mention, but I did have years of working in jobs I wasn’t suited for and wasn’t happy in. There’s really no need to push 18 year olds into courses just because.

+2. It’s her life not yours

Get over yourselves and let her balls-up a few times and find her own way.

I’ve seen it first hand with many of my daughters friends who were pushed into Uni, many have dropped out or switched courses and not many seem happy with their courses.

Some close friends have ‘guided’ their son since Primary down a professional route, when he really wanted to work in the TV/Theatre area. His mother joined the governors at the primary school to keep closer tabs on him and the school, then joined the governors at the secondary school he went to do the same. He started Uni in an engineering degree of some sort (not exactly sure), but hated it.

He quit Uni before Christmas and is now doing a course learning how to make guitars!

I was going to give you the same sort of answer everyone else has but I see they’ve all played the smart arse comments already!

So let me try to be more helpful.

Most people pick a course because they are really interested in the subject or they believe it will lead to a particular career they think they will enjoy. In reality most careers (medicine, law, etc are obvious exceptions!) don’t have only one route into them, and even highly specialist courses like forensic science often result in only a fairly small proportion of those people going to study that topic. So for someone who doesn’t really know what they want to do in life, but who does want to go to uni I would start with finding something they really want to spend 4/5 years digging deep into – because you will need to be quite motivated to learn for yourself, which uni demands.

I had the opposite issue with my son – he knew exactly what he wanted to study, was likely to get the grades and wasn’t considering anything else. We were worried he’d get to the summer before uni, have a panic and feel compelled to study something he didn’t want (Mrs P had exactly that change of heart before she went and I guess I was halfway through before I realized that the PR around my course was probably more exciting than course itself). So we got some of the prospectuses for the uni’s he was looking at and went through them and picked some of the “weirder” subjects and discussed them over the dinner table – just exploring what was interesting about those subjects what careers might come from it, people we know who do related things etc. It helped him fill out the other choices on his UCAS form – but he’s gone to uni to study what he originally planned (and seems quite happy). Interestingly his little sister who had no obviously plans did get some ideas (which have now changed) of things she would like.

Another approach, which seems a bit odd, but I think is perfectly valid if she really wants to go and study but doesn’t know what – is to pick where; go look at unis and understand the towns / campus / facilities etc and then pick a subject to suit. I have a friend who’s son is a rower who picked the uni based on the rowing club then the course. If she doesn’t have a passion for the course or the uni – she will struggle to get the most out of it.

S5 so only 12 months to decide and apply, a bit meh now is fine but don’t rush her. I was an S6 reg tutor in an indie school and did hundreds of UCAS applications kids that were meh tended to drop out pretty quickly. They had a great few months but…
I get the “let’s inspire her” thinking and would say that a lot of kids in this cohort have no idea and only really known the jobs they see.
DO unis do prospectuses any more a flick through them might help certainly a lot of wtf courses but although things like my world of work might be useful they are usually designed by adults and not inspiring to kids.
How about pick a uni (one a week) and challenge her to find the most bizarre course. Start it off with a did you know people go to uni/college to study XXXX wonder what job you get with that.

£50k debt for something she doesn’t really want to do?

I try and steer ours away from thinking of it like debt. It is a massive mental burden to carry when you first leave Uni. It isn’t really like a normal debt, as you don’t have to pay it back. Many won’t.

Your daughter isn’t your wife, much as she might like her to be. It’s great to want the best for your kids but Pushy Parent Syndrome will surely only end in resentment.

Considered apprenticeships? There’s some great opportunities out there, it’s not like when we were here age. She’ll still end up with a qualification and she’ll be earning money rather than starting out into adult life with tens of thousands of debt. And you can drop her Uni fees on an MX-5. 😁

Have a look at degree apprenticeships. Work and get a degree + no student loan!

I was expected to go to uni. My mum and dad both went, my two elder sisters went and my younger sister was going. I was going also.

I hated it. I hated being a student, I hated the course, I hated uni life in general and I wish I had done an apprenticeship instead. I left after two years having already incurred a good deal of student debt and moped around in call centres for a good few years before finding a job I really enjoyed.

As a slice of irony I did teacher training. I met someone from my course a couple of years later. They had hated every minute of it as well but had ground it out as they didn’t want to pull out. How did I meet this newly qualified teacher? I was their trainer in a call centre…

Uni is not for everyone and it is not the be all and end all to decent employment. I will give you another for eg. My niece failed her GCSEs (inc maths and English) so A levels, never mind uni was out. She is now 18 and a trainee dental nurse. Loves her job, has real prospects and is pulling in £1800 a month take home. It will be a long time before any of her friends who go onto uni start brining in that kind of wage.

I don’t have a degree, nor have I ever really considered doing a line of work that would require a degree. Several good friends have more than one degree in subjects that ‘interest’ them but not a single one of them has ever found a paid job that required their expensive qualifications. I was talking to a lad who was doing ndt (non destructive testing) on a job I’d been welding last week, he’d done a degree in film and media production after his A levels, got into a load of debt doing it and then ended up doing deliveries for Amazon before he did the ndt training. Doing a degree just because mum says she has to is absolute madness unless she has a clear idea whether its going to be of any use in life

I’m surprised by some of the responses, I had a great time at uni. Some of the happiest years of my life. I was never in it for the career I suppose, just went for a good time which is not good in the long term as it leaves you a bit lost when you leave.

My nephew on the other hand seems to be doing nothing but studying which I think is partly due to him being the way he is but also a sign that uni has really changed since the 90s.

Not much help to the OP sorry but hope your daughter finds her way.

Lol @matt_outandabout junior and the coaching sessions

I try and steer ours away from thinking of it like debt. It is a massive mental burden to carry when you first leave Uni. It isn’t really like a normal debt, as you don’t have to pay it back. Many won’t.

That’s fair – but there’s still a consideration for the impact it will have afterwards.

If it’s something they’re not sure they want to do, then it’s something that needs to be thought about it, there is a subsequent financial impact, no matter how you want to think about it.

Why does anyone have four undergraduate degrees, surely you go Masters, PhD, Prof….

I was bored many years ago so did a 2nd degree with the OU part time, whilst working full time as an Engineer. NB back when the OU cost peanuts – maybe £350 a year for a few years.

As for my first (proper) degree – really didn’t enjoy it all – it was a necessary evil, knew I had to get a degree for the career I wanted, didn’t like Univeristy at all, spent most of it stoned as a way of coping. I survived and got a 2.1 which wasn’t bad considering the amount of resin I consumed in three years measured in ounces per term….

Pick a general direction:

Business / health / science / tech / something else random.

Gap year in industry she is interested in. Realise what degree she will need to excel in industry, if any.

Get to start Uni a high roller that way and have somewhere to go back to over the summer hols for more work / experience.

Pretty pointless going to Uni without direction these days when the cost of failure is so high (student debt running to £30k plus)

When I was that age I was making my own decisions, of course I was fortunate to have the support of my parents but I don’t think I’d have appreciated interference.

Have a look at degree apprenticeships. Work and get a degree + no student loan!

Was hoping to come back and mention this – eldest has college friend who is on a degree apprenticeship with IBM. Started on £25k, with £5k rise each year expected and a job after 4 years.

Ironically, one of the people on her course has recently graduated with an Oxbridge music degree – how we laughed!

No, I’m serious, are you stalking me?

I like what you’re wearing 😎

unifrog

There’s three sorts of “meh about uni”, there’s the ones that don’t have much interest, there’s the ones that are overwhelmed with choice, and there’s the ones that can’t quite make the mental leap from high school and their own experiences to course choice- the classic “I like X so should I study Y?”. And they can look pretty similar too so “if she doesn’t know then why go at all” or “go later” isn’t necessarily good advice.

I’ve been out of hte game for a couple of years now but this is what education liaison teams are for- traditionally we’d say get to a school event or ucas fair or just start touring universities. And don’t just go, really get into it, the point is really conversations not just observing. “I don’t know what to do” is a totally legitimate position and one of the smartest things kids say. Face to face is definitely best but obviously that’s all screwed up now and it’s really sad and worrying how many of those conversations won’t happen now with covid.

But you can still have good convos.

shuhockey
Free Member

Have a look at degree apprenticeships. Work and get a degree + no student loan!

Yeesss. They are completely awesome tbf but they’re definitely not for everyone and as a general rule they are not right for meh students- you need a level of drive and willingness to be outside the norm that a good proportion of kids just don’t have. No criticism of those kids at all, I was definitely one of them, I’d have crashed and burned on a decree apprenticeship.

OTOH there are times when the meh kid suddenly sees something they want to do which they’d never considered precisely because it’s not the normal uni experience so there’s no hard and fast rules.