Help – Noob needs help with a road / cx bike.

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  • Help – Noob needs help with a road / cx bike.
  • Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber
    thomthumb
    Member

    planet x have the new kaffenback at Β£850. not a bad choice.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    genesis cdf and day one can run guards. D1 are already pretty chunky add in an alfine and I bet it’s a bit of a porker, supposed reliabilty of hub gears tho. Dunno how the CDFs shape up. Not seen anything about the new kaffenbak but if it’s true to form it’ll be reet for guards and racks.

    ps

    I dont want some lean pain inducing racing machine

    if you’re finally joining the darkside you need to embrace the pain, road without pain is like mountain biking without hour long hikeabikes πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    My solution to a very similar set of demands was this:


    http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-pro-dx-cross-4400-compact-612199/aid:612201

    Light (enough), discs, capable of “proper” road rides but tough enough for rough towpaths etc, mudguard and pannier mounts, more relaxed CX geometry.

    I’m very happy with mine – in fact I just rode it to work this very morning.

    (Edit: that particular one is above your budget but the same frame is available with cheaper groupset, e.g. with Shimano 105 it is Β£1123)

    CX bikes will do what you want, but they’re primeraly for hour long races spent mostly stood up i.e. they’re stiff! But they can usualy take big tyres so there’s some comfort there.

    If it’s got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it’s not a CX bike, it’s a touring bike the marketing department’s realised it can sell to YUPies.

    road without pain is like mountain biking without hour long hikeabikes

    +1

    Junkyard
    Member

    CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road so should be perfect for you πŸ˜‰

    As your lungs and legs should be on fire so you wont notice the little niggles from your back
    Re mudguards yu can get ones that fit to the frame so do not require rack mounts etc and you can get seatpost mounted pannier racks
    Work ok

    I have nothing to say but WOW….when we going out then for a chain gang…me, you DONK and wors…sure you will tuck in nicely

    PS mine was a CAAD 54 cm for comparison – how was that for you comfort wise?
    You may prefer slight;y smaller to start with but it is the right size for you IMHO

    Premier Icon lowey
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    Right, I know NOTHING about road bikes and its a bloody minefield to me.

    Heres what I’m looking for(moon on a stick).

    Primarily I want it to commute on. The commute is 60percent road, 40percent towpath / sustrans.

    I need to be able to put mudguards on it.

    I may do the odd road ride on it.

    I may put it on a train with some panniers and clear off touring for a few days on it.

    I dont want some lean pain inducing racing machine with geometry that will mess my back up by being bent double.

    Does any of that make any sense ? Budget is circa Β£1000.

    Many thanks!

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    Pinnacle Arkrose.

    (from evans)

    i’d get this one, tiagra groupset, Β£800.

    i love my Genesis Cdf, but it’s not exactly light…

    steezysix
    Member

    I recently got a Norco Indie Drop – I basically had exactly the same requirements as you, first ever road bike, I took one for a test ride and loved it. It’s steel so is a bit heavier than some, but is way under your budget so you could make some upgrades with the money you have left?

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    If it’s got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it’s not a CX bike, it’s a touring bike the marketing department’s realised it can sell to YUPies.

    CX just handily identifies a category of bikes – you don’t have to do cyclocross races on them any more than you have to a UCI ranking for it to be a road bike.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road

    You are clearly riding a very different CX bike to me πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon senor j
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    I bought a kinesis pro 6 frame for the duties you describe.
    It took time for me to adjust to drops but now I really enjoy riding it .
    Btw, I think soma funk(?) built up a lovely looking kinesis frame which would also fit the bill .
    More relaxed geometry I believe …

    Junkyard
    Member

    CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road
    You are clearly riding a very different CX bike to me

    Happy to race you on road on my road bike and off road on my MTB – I guess you could choose all fire roads to win though πŸ˜‰

    Dont get me wrong for what Lowey needs I would get one but it is a bit jack of all trades and master of none..IMHO

    avdave2
    Member

    I’ve bought a second hand Genesis CDF as a general riding about bike. It’s no lightweight but it’ll take guards and racks and is tough enough to ride on any terrain that’ll leave your eyeballs in your head. Junkyard is spot on really but they do make a good option for mixed riding. And yes it is a marketing label, I didn’t buy it for CX riding as such but as a bike to get back to 30 years ago when I was riding my Coventry Eagle over the Downs and around country lanes. I’m planning to put lower gearing on at some point as I like a 1:1 bottom gear.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Happy to race you on road on my road bike

    I have no doubt you’d win. But as I said you don’t “have to a UCI ranking for it to be a road bike”.

    I’ve had it out for a few long road rides with mates on proper road bikes and it kept up just fine.

    organic355
    Member

    kinesis crosslight Pro 6, can be built up to a very nice commuter for around Β£1000.

    I use mine for commuting at the moment until I can find a cheaper replacement.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    CX bikes are crap on the road and crap off the road

    he has a point tho, slower than a road bike and absolutely chuff all margin for error when the trail gets gnarlier than a fireroad. Good compromise for commuting tho imo

    If it’s got pannier mounts and mudguard eyes it’s not a CX bike, it’s a touring bike the marketing department’s realised it can sell to YUPies.

    got a day one coz it has discs, can fit full guards over 32c knobblies (and is SS), it also has rack mounts. Now is that closer to a cx or a tourer? Genuine question I haven’t owned a “proper” version of either. I’m guessing these new not-CX bikes are probably a hybrid of the two but closer to CX, geometry and frame wise.

    globalti
    Member

    Specialized Tricross disc, everything you want.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    he has a point tho, slower than a road bike

    Depends on the road bike (and more importantly the rider).

    With an off-the-shelf weight of 8.75kg that Rose is lighter than some proper road bikes, like a Specialized Allez Comp (9.26kg), despite the Rose being a beefier build and having disc brakes.

    Replace the Racing Ralphs with some narrower slicks (I went for Conti 4 season) and there is no reason it can’t keep up.

    got a day one coz it has discs, can fit full guards over 32c knobblies (and is SS), it also has rack mounts. Now is that closer to a cx or a tourer? Genuine question I haven’t owned a “proper” version of either. I’m guessing these new not-CX bikes are probably a hybrid of the two but closer to CX, geometry and frame wise.

    My comment was a tongue in cheek dig at the “i need a CX bike for commuting on potholed roads and sustrans routes” people, in my head I’m imagining they drive chelsea tractors for the same reason.

    A lot of bikes now labelled “CX” are really what might used to have been called rough-stuff tourers. But that’s not very trendy. (I’ve got one but have disguised it with a cotton duck saddle bag, mudguards and leather saddle)

    From your post I would say you are really after a normal touring bike. If you can withstand the shame of not having something fashionable, have a look at the ones made by Dawes or Ridgeback.

    Regarding pain, pay attention to handlebar height. If you’re not racing there is no reason to set them particularly low.

    MrSparkle
    Member

    Lowey – if you can find a medium one of these then you’ll be laughing:
    http://www.boardmanbikes.com/cx/cx_team.html

    antigee
    Member

    i really like my “drop bar hybrid” AKA CX Kinesis pro6 – don’t race but at the end of a road ridewhen my mates are putting their carbon road bikes in the car for the drive home i’m ready to ride some mixed trails home – not perfect not the best for anything but the best for getting out and about albeit a bit slower

    edit though I mostly work at home a lot of weeks I commute for 3 days 40% rough dirt trail 20% smooth gravel 40% tarmac and it just works

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    graham rose is Β£270 more and mail order (normally better/lighter for the same money anyway), still sounds impressively light for discs tho, by our luggage scales (not very accurate) mine is about 25lb!

    Changing tyres is kinda cheating, could stick 29er tyres on and get something closer to MTB handling too, I was really talking about with original kit. That said I am thinking that if my road bike dies I might get a dirty disco or similar to replace it (just coz I do so little road)

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    graham rose is Β£270 more and mail order (normally better/lighter for the same money anyway)

    Agreed – but I was making the point that only the nichest of snobs would say that the Specialized Allez Comp was “crap on the road” or not a proper road bike.

    So if that Rose is lighter than it and has a better groupset then why would it struggle to keep up? The CX geometry isn’t that different surely?

    sounds impressively light for discs tho

    Aye – tis accurate though, I checked it with my luggage scales when it was delivered πŸ˜€

    Changing tyres is kinda cheating

    Bear in mind that Rose build to order so you could spec different tyres off-the-shelf, probably at no cost.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    The CX geometry isn’t that different surely

    I’m genuinely interested in the differences between road, cx and touring frames (and what real world differences they make) if anyone has links.

    Sorry for hijacking your thread lowey, you bought that 29er yet?

    Junkyard
    Member

    no interest in TT frames then πŸ˜‰

    Touring will be more” relaxed” geometry with some notion of comfort rather than outright aerodynamic tuck with a slammed stem stylee

    No idea what CX geometry is tbh

    TiRed
    Member

    Cannondale CAADX 105. With a second set of wheels (used 105/ultegra spec and a 12-23 cassette) for proper road duties. I lifted a CAADX and a Genesis, one in each arm. You’ll notice the more than one kilo difference in weight of the CdF! I really wouldn’t bother with disk brakes – save the money and put it towards some nicer lighter spare wheels for proper road riding.

    Premier Icon lowey
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    I’m genuinely interested in the differences between road, cx and touring frames (and what real world differences they make) if anyone has links.

    Thats the question I’m asking. Some good suggestions on here thanks. I’m not really arsed about the weight, two commutes a week and a big dump will loose more weight off me that any pimp components on a bike will.

    I’m looking for something that is comfy, not a speed machine but it much more fit for pourpose than an MTB with slicks on it.

    The genesis looks good, as does that Pinnacle. Kaffenback also looking good I think.

    Donk, decided against the 29’er. I’d basically have two bikes that essentially did the same thing, so going to get something complety different.

    JK and Donk… I can understand the shock value of me posting this, but thats as far as it goes. I’d rather pull a kidney out of my arse with a piece of rusty barb wire than join a chain gang. πŸ˜†

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    I really wouldn’t bother with disk brakes

    midwinter commuting along the route lowey may be using I was getting through a full set of mini V brake pads a fortnight and rapidly accelerated the wear on the rims. Disc pads are lasting a lot better. YMMV with nicer, drier, fair weather routes obviously, but personally I’d take discs for commuting.

    protest all you want lowey you’re already being drawn in. This is just the first step on a long journey of discovery πŸ˜‰

    cheers tinas \/

    I’m genuinely interested in the differences between road, cx and touring frames (and what real world differences they make) if anyone has links.

    Road would be quick handling but stable, (73 paralel and chainstays as short as possible, BB failry low)

    CX longer chainstays to give some stability and room for mud, angles slacker by 1-2deg. Ammerican CX bikes have much lower BB’s than euro ones, as they do a lot more raceing in the dry on dirt tracks, whereas wuro ones are designed to give plenty of clearance over obstacles/mud. They often have long seatubes and heatubes as being aero is less important, but big frames are easier to shoulder. The yanks even have a niche within a niche, Gravel Bikes, road geometry, CX toughness, no mud clearence, designed for raceing on fire roads.

    Touring bikes have long chainstays to give clearance between your heels and panniers. They’re also slacker/more offset for the reasons given below about toe overlap.

    Head angle and fork rake are also important for avoiding toe overlap with the front wheel, the biger the tyres/mudguards you want to run the slacker/more offset you need. Generaly bikes are built to minimise the wheelbase so road bikes are steeper, then CX, then tourers are slacker in that order to fit small tyres, big tyres then big tyres with guards.

    Obviously within all that you’ve got frame materials, how tough you want it to be, etc etc as well. A tourer would be much more comfortable than a CX bike for example.

    TiRed
    Member

    I don’t commute off-road, but I do commute 20 miles every day including throughout the winter snow. One set of caliper brake blocks in the past 12mo and the Open Pro rims show little wear. Also if I was to have ONE bike for everything, I’d want to be able to switch wheels to something a lot lighter – and there is little availability for cheap, light, 700c wheels. The CdF would be soul destroying for road rides. And I like steel bikes!

    Giant TCX would be another suggestion. But you will need some extra wheels and a 12-23 cassette to mimic conventional road gearing.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I really wouldn’t bother with disk brakes

    Disagree – especially for commuting on potentially muddy Sustrans routes.

    Even proper road bikes are heading towards discs these days as folk crossing over from MTBing realise the advantages.

    e.g.


    http://road.cc/content/news/88238-pinarello-launch-dogma-hydraulic-disc-brakes

    TiRed
    Member

    I don’t disagree that disks offer real advantages (carbon rims are the most obvious case), but tell me where you will find some used disk-braked kysirium-Elite-quality sub 1500g second hand wheels to match the CX bike the OP is looking at for under Β£200?

    For me, it would be TCX or CAADX with canti brakes and a second set of wheels. That would be about the same as a Genesis CdF with disk brakes. Having ridden a Day One alfine and lifted a CdF, I would go for something a lot lighter. (And I own a Genesis steel mtb)

    wors
    Member

    when we going out then for a chain gang…me, you DONK and wors

    If you can keep up you slacker πŸ˜‰

    avdave2
    Member

    The CdF would be soul destroying for road rides. And I like steel bikes!

    I managed a nice 60 mile road ride on mine on Monday including a ride up Ditchling Beacon and at 55KG thats a lot of metal for me to be pedaling uphill but it was fine. I wasn’t keeping up with anyone and I wasn’t in a rush to get anywhere, If I’d ridden faster I’d have just ended up back at home earlier. I could do with losing the cx tyres though as I only tend to do short sections off road. And I’d definitely go with disk brakes on a bike you going to ride all through the winter.

    thomthumb
    Member

    canti brakes wear out too fast in wet/ muddy conditions the brakes are also a pain. mini vs might be better but discs are superior by miles.

    Wheels aren’t really a problem; open sport on deore cost under Β£100.

    A front disc to my commuter (pompino) is one of the best upgrades i’ve made to any bike ever!!

    Junkyard
    Member

    If you can keep up you slacker

    Not like you fat bastards well build tall fellas will get much of a tow from me at the front πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    @Junkyard: No idea what CX geometry is tbh

    So how can you be so sure that it will be crap on the road, compared to a road bike, if you don’t even know what the differences are?

    @TiRed: tell me where you will find some used disk-braked kysirium-Elite-quality sub 1500g second hand wheels to match the CX bike the OP is looking at for under Β£200?

    And why would he need those for a bike he primarily wants to commute on down “60percent road, 40percent towpath / sustrans” routes? πŸ˜•

    Yeah the market for cheap second hand high-spec disc road wheels is obviously very small at the moment, as they are only just hitting the shelves brand new.

    Give it a couple of years and I’m sure you’ll see a different picture.

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