We purchased our sofas about 18 months ago from Loaf and in addition we purchased an extra insurance policy to cover spills and stains.

We had an incident which resulted in an insurance claim and the sofa cleaner man came to clean the sofa. Unfortunately, however he couldn’t clean the sofa because the blue dye rubbed off far too easily. His report stated he couldn’t clean the sofa without damaging them and there is a manufacturing fault with the fabric.

I approached Loaf with the findings, stating although the sofas are out of warranty they clearly fall short of the consumer rights act. Loaf says we should deal with the insurance company, and the insurance company states we should deal with Loaf.

Wife and I are really disappointed with the quality of the sofa, we can’t clean them (they need cleaning – our babies have snotted and dribbled all over then) and Loaf are not willing to help, so it’s my intention to recover some costs via small claims court. However, should I be complaining to the Loaf, or the insurance company? If it comes to it, who do I take to court?

I would think that the primary claim would be with the sofa company given they aren’t really fit for purpose. Any warranty should be against defective materials or construction for the foreseeable life of the product, or are Loaf saying the expected life of the product is less than 18 months? You have the evidence from the cleaner guy that the fabric can’t be cleaned.

The blue dye is funny thing to try to clean fabric with… What exactly is this blue dye?

And what colour is the fabric?

If it’s E133 then that will ruin anything.

What’s the nature of the accident? Puke stain? Coffee? Red wine?

There’s a couple of different aspects to this imho. I’m not particularly sure about the consumer rights approach, although I’d like to think it’s the correct approach to Loaf. And particularly if you used a credit card to buy it.

The other part of your situation is the insurance policy you have bought. It’s regulated and you can complain and go to the Financial Ombudsman Service if unhappy.

I’ve had a look at what your policy wording might be and it seems to offer repair/replacement as an option. So, if the insurance company can’t repair satisfactorily then they should be looking to replace it. This is often via store credit to the original purchase price.

I haven’t gone through the wording with a fine toothed comb, but I can’t see anything that excludes fixing a manufacturer fault. I’m not saying it’s not there, but I didn’t find it on first glance.

So, I’d think you have a decent case against the insurance product. But I’d be tempted to say the primary effort should be against Loaf.

Is it a carbon frame with a no-fault warranty clause?

And what colour is the fabric?

I’m going to guess blue

Your description is clearly a manufacturing fault with the sofa, pursue Loaf. They are is course trying it on but hopefully a well written notice before action letter will get them around,  if not then small claims and very best of luck.

I’m going to guess blue

Yeah dyed.

Have you been mis-sold an insurance policy by loaf?

(seeing as it is seemingly impossible to clean the sofa fabric without causing the dye to come out resulting in a poor finish.)

Just to be clear the sofa is blue, and the dye rubs off when cleaned with water and a cloth, as per the cleaning guidance.

I probably have been mis-sold an insurance policy; more pressing though is the poor quality sofas Shirley?

So it becomes lighter blue with a gentle clean with a damp cloth? Does the dye transfer to the cloth?

Sounds like a cheap dye or unfinished product?

If it comes off so easily, I’d expect it to be all over your clothes or skin to be honest.  It’s not unusual for fabrics to have a little bit of colour loss, especially if it’s very dark.  Is it leaving noticeably lighter patches after cleaning?

No, I don’t think you’ve been mis-sold a policy. But the policy isn’t doing what the policy says it should. So there’s grounds for complaint.

BUT as I said, I think the main thrust should be against Loaf.

Yes it is leaving noticeable whiter patches after cleaning.

Can the whole sofa be cleaned so it is a uniform lighter colour? If so, would that impact it’s use? Assuming you are happy with how the sofa works for seating…then it would just be the colour, which could be sorted with a coloured sheet over it.
Absolutely not what I’m suggesting you do without pursuing Loaf first…but if all else absolutely fails, it could be ok with a bit of adjustment.

If it is leaving noticeably lighter patches after simply blotting with a damp cloth, then that is clearly a manufacturing fault and should be dealt with by Loaf. No way should it be losing so much colour, especially as it’s designed to be sat on!  I’d suggest a 1* review on trustpilot as that seems to be a common way to get them to help 🙂

the leaflet of the current scheme says:

Sofa replacement.
If it’s beyond help, they’ll try to replace the damaged part first (or the
whole sofa if the part is not available) as quickly as possible. In the
event of a replacement the original lead time is applicable.

And the IPID is similarly broad. This is tough shit for the insurance company. If they can’t fix it, they’ll have to replace it. Whether it should or shouldn’t be fixable using their normal techniques is irrelevant to OP’s policy.

Forget the warranty. It’s still insured.

Based on the limited information posted, I don’t think Loaf can credibly absolve themselves of all responsibility.
Some questions:
– were you induced or otherwise encouraged to take out an insurance policy or were you directed towards a specific insurer for a spills and stains policy?
– if a specific insurer, is it Castelan who are promoted on the Loaf website?
– were you advised that your sofa fabric would not be colourfast if subject to cleaning by a ‘specialist’?
– was the attempted stain removal process in accordance with Loaf’s guidance which should be shown on product label?
– does a cloth and water comprise a professional cleaning process?

I would say Loaf are fully on the hook and their response amounts to them having a laugh at your expense.

Product not fit for purpose with a possible side order of insurance mis-selling.

Loaf’s advertising and their website blathering about ‘squidginess’ are huge turn-offs, for me, but each to their own.

frankconway +1

The problem is with the sofa not the insurance and your issue is with Loaf

At 18 months for a sofa you should still be amply covered by SOGA. Give them a chance to replace or else get a refund.

You haven’t noticed the dye coming off on your clothes in the 18 months you’ve owned them?

You’ve not had reason to wipe up a small spill in all that time?

If the dye comes off as easily as you say, I find it hard to believe it’s taken 18 months to become apparent.

Only slightly off topic:

In my youth I turned up to school one day and people were telling me I looked ill and green. I was taken to the school nurse who noticed a temperature, and then called my mum. Lots of concern all around, questions about whether I had been sniffing glue for some reason (it was the hot topic in the early 80s) and I was taken home.

When we got home the colour washed right off. Turns out I did have a slight fever, and the sweating in bed the previous night had resulted in the blue dye from my new Star Wars duvet cover staining my face and body…

Return of the Bed-dye !!

Oldtennisshoes – Your suggesting i’m fabricating my story? I’m here to seek advice, any fabrication in my story is only going to misdirect peoples advice at my own detriment.

Oldtennisshoes – Your suggesting i’m fabricating my story? I’m here to seek advice, any fabrication in my story is only going to misdirect peoples advice at my own detriment.

I’d be tempted to try another sofa cleaning company.

Loaf are an absolute shower to deal with.

We had issues with a cushion on one of their sofas and it was about 6 months out of warranty. I emailed their customer service and explained the issue where I was told that it wasn’t covered by the extended guarantee and would cost about £250 to replace. I then told them it was clearly a manufacturing issue and I wanted it replaced as it wasn’t fit for purpose.

It went back and forth for a while with me comparing their quality, unfavourably, to a DFS sofa and explaining how we’d just moved and were planning on buying another Loaf sofa but this had put us off. It was at that point that a manager picked up the emails and informed me that the advisor had been incorrect and they would indeed replace it FoC.

Long and short of it, be persistent. If you get nowhere, then I’d be off to Citizen’s Advice and go from there.

They charge a premium for their stuff but it really isn’t good quality.

Oldtennisshoes – Your suggesting i’m fabricating my story? I’m here to seek advice, any fabrication in my story is only going to misdirect peoples advice at my own detriment.

I think, if I’m reading it correctly, they are more suggesting that the insurance company (or its subcontracted geezer) is talking rubbish because they can’t fix it cheaply.

All this stuff about SoGA and insurance misselling (!) is overthinking the issue and making it more complicated than it should be. The insurance company insured the sofa; it’s a valid claim; they should fix or replace it. They can’t start now to wish that the sofa was made of a different material or using a different process, or invent some new requirement that’s not in the policy. They’re an insurance company – they should put on their big kid trousers and take the rough with the smooth.

At 18 months for a sofa you should still be amply covered by SOGA.

SOGA hasn’t existed for several years now so I’d file that under “unlikely.”

CRA states that goods have to be of “satisfactory quality.” Your mileage may vary here, I suspect that a court would have differing opinions on a £100 sofa vs a £1000 one. To my mind at least, “I had a professional cleaner wipe it with a damp rag and it started pissing dye, here’s their report” likely puts you in a pretty strong position.

However, should I be complaining to the Loaf, or the insurance company? If it comes to it, who do I take to court?

Both of them? 😁

I can’t immediately see how the insurance company is at fault here. You’re presumably pursuing an accidental damage claim but the problem isn’t that your sofa has been damaged accidentally, the issue is that it’s shit and that onus lies with whomever you bought it from.

Trying to be constructive here.

Is this not just like a car costing too much to repair after an accident so that it gets written off?

I refer to my previous comments about the dye not coming out during normal use in the previous 18 months.

There may not be anything fundamentally wrong with the design in normal use, but it can’t economically be repaired.

I guess there’s a question about if normal use should include the ability to be easily cleaned – which would of course make sense, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that that is the case.

If that is the situation, then there may be a case for mis-selling the insurance.

Wife and I are really disappointed with the quality of the sofa, we can’t clean them (they need cleaning – our babies have snotted and dribbled all over then)

I’m not quite getting this – you’ve had a sofa for 18 months, children have snotted and dribbled over it, food and drink may have been spilled over it – and this is the first time anyone has tried to clean it!?

Seems weird it’s never even been wiped down with water and a cloth, or had fabric cleaner used on it in that time.

‘<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, ‘Helvetica Neue’, Arial, ‘Noto Sans’, sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, ‘Segoe UI’, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Noto Color Emoji’;”>I’m not quite getting this – you’ve had a sofa for 18 months, children have snotted and dribbled over it, food and drink may have been spilled over it – and this is the first time anyone has tried to clean it!?'</span>

Its not the first time anyone has tried to clean it. Its the first time a professional has commented in writing that the sofas have a manufacturing defect.

Maybe they’re just a bit grim? 😁

One would assume that the manufacturer would provide cleaning instructions (and a professional furniture cleaner would be able to read). Is that not the case?

Sorry for being cynical (but I naturally am!) – if you’ve cleaned it before and not noticed anything wrong or colour coming out onto clothes over that time, the cynic in me says the professional used a strong product he shouldn’t have and left a paler lighter patch. And now he’s covering his own arse. He probably doesn’t have liability cover.

I could set up as a ‘professional’ sofa/carpet cleaner tomorrow.

but the problem isn’t that your sofa has been damaged accidentally

Yes, it has. The insurance company is moaning about the cost of fixing the damage and wishing the sofa had been made differently.

OP needs to complain to insurance company in writing about their failure to comply with the policy and marketing materials, then go to financial ombudsman service if there is no satisfactory response.

Some questions:
– were you induced or otherwise encouraged to take out an insurance policy or were you directed towards a specific insurer for a spills and stains policy?
– if a specific insurer, is it Castelan who are promoted on the Loaf website?
– were you advised that your sofa fabric would not be colourfast if subject to cleaning by a ‘specialist’?
– was the attempted stain removal process in accordance with Loaf’s guidance which should be shown on product label?
– does a cloth and water comprise a professional cleaning process?

Additionally, was the ‘sofa cleaning specialist’ nominated/specified by the insurer – possibly from a panel of approved companies – or did OP instruct them directly and independently?

I’m still of the view, based on OP, that the sofas were not fit for purpose.
If the insurance policy is with Castelan and OP was ‘encouraged’ to use them, I would say that raises a valid question about potential mis-selling as this is an insurance policy which failed to do what it, apparently, said it would being actively promoted by the retailer.
That, to me, is a red flag.
If Castelan, it would be reasonable to ask Loaf what commission they get from the insurers.

What’s clear is that edward is getting the run around from both the retailer and insurer.
He has sofas which are not fit for purpose and an (apparently) worthless insurance policy.

He has a damaged sofas which are not fit for purpose and an (apparently) worthless insurance policy.

OP has referred to sofas.
They are not damaged; the fabric is not fit for purpose which renders the sofas not fit for purpose.

We had an incident which resulted in an insurance claim and the sofa cleaner man came to clean the sofa.

1 sofa – singular – damaged as a result of an incident.

No one knows if the other sofa has the same issue – the OP doesn’t say if cleaning was attempted on it.

Having lived with them for 18 months, it’s difficult to say that they are not fit for purpose.

The only, key issue IMHO, is whether the insurance policy was mis-sold.

Good luck OP, I hope you get sorted.

Update: I took loaf to a small claims court using the money claim online government service, which was very easy, Loaf covered my court costs and I have new sofas on order free of charge. Case closed 🙂 

“Incident”: dirty beggars