Help fix my roof!

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  • Help fix my roof!
  • keppoch
    Member

    The latest home maintenance issue in what seems to be a bit of a rush of them is the roof over my bathroom. I noticed that the internal wall in the bathroom was damp and then that two tiles above it were cracked. The house is a victorian terrace and the only access is through the house. There are two cracked tiles pictured here:

    and a slipped one at the other end, far corner of this picture:

    The gutter line looks like this:

    I normally have a crack at DIY stuff but time, requirement for ladders and skills means this one is going to a tradesman. The roofer I have previously used was difficult to get here and then rude to my housemate so he is not getting the job, I left a message on another recommended to me but got no response (suspect the job is not of the scale to get them interested). I put it on rated people and got two responses, they have been round to quote this morning, what they said differs

    1. Suggested replacing the cracked tiles but said once that was done it would be waterproof although suspects that underlying felt is damaged. £100 to do the work but can’t get the ladder through the house so would need to hire scaffold tower for the day at £80.

    2. Suggested that they will need to remove the three lowest rows of tiles to get at the felt that they think is holed and also missing at the gutter line, they called it a ‘dripper’ They will replace felt with new breathable type (Goretex for a roof?) and may need to replace a baton before putting the lower tiles back on (not sure how this is done as they overlap from the top). They have a ladder they reckon they can get through the house or would otherwise go over the roof to get access to the back. Cost £250.

    Both quoters seemed fine but the first seemed a bit more of a general jobber whereas the second one turned up with a van with multiple ladders.

    Any thoughts on which one I should go for, the prices or other experience of similar jobs. I am in Cardiff, if someone happened to know a trusty roofer that would be very welcomed, I seem to have bad luck/skills in picking them!

    keppoch.

    Premier Icon muddydwarf
    Subscriber

    Cant help with anyone local, but I’m having a similar problem but on a larger scale.
    Basically, i have a bad damp problem with my chimney stack and gable end, water is getting in through the decaying stack and the solid wall gable is pretty damp now as a result.
    I’m having the stack rebuilt and sealed, the walls stripped, rendered and painted and the roof stripped, refelted and relaid.
    Costing me £5K so far..

    keppoch
    Member

    Yikes! You have at least made me realise the scale of my issues, good luck with that.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    I’d also be investigating the bit I’ve highlighted. Is that a vent pipe any flashing under the tiles? how are the tiles finished at the external wall?

    No 2.sounds more like he knows what he’s doing.*

    I’d also realign the gutter so it runs to the downpipe. Are any of them offering any guarantee on work done?
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    *I used to do the roofing many years ago

    wingnuts
    Member

    Looks to me as though all the slates are on upside down. The nails shouldn’t be showing anywhere. This is likely to have been done by someone bodging a repair in the past. Water will always get through the nail hole.

    Nails should be covered by the slate above and then the joint of that should be covered by an offset one above that. Its called triple bonding.

    So that indicates the second option as the better choice, but you may have to replace some of the slates as they could have holes in inappropriate places.

    Its not difficult to sort but you may uncover more rotten battens as you have been advised.

    Go up and look when they strip back to see the real extent of the damage.

    Good luck! (why not turn this into a footflaps saga?)

    wingnuts
    Member

    And agree about the flashing bruneep

    singlecrack
    Member

    Wingnuts they aren’t nails ..they’re little retaining clips to stop the bottom of the slates rising

    Daisy_Duke
    Member

    I won’t bother. When its raining its too wet to fix it. When its dry, is
    it’s as good as any other…

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Looks to me as though all the slates are on upside down. The nails shouldn’t be showing anywhere. This is likely to have been done by someone bodging a repair in the past. Water will always get through the nail hole.

    Tosh^ looks fine apart from the couple cracked and the highlighted area.

    Wingnuts they aren’t nails ..they’re little retaining clips to stop the bottom of the slates tiles rising

    globalti
    Member

    Are those real slates or that fake stuff? They look too regular to be real.

    Paint double yellow lines on the roof so that fat muppet in red doesn’t park his sleigh there and break it up.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber
    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    If the roof is Victorian, it won’t have any felt underneath.

    As an interim step you could just bodge it with some expanding foam / glue and felt from inside the attic, as a stop gap to finding a decent local roofer?

    Edit: They look like man made Eternit tile to me (compressed cement and felt) – too regular to be real Slate.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    If the roof is Victorian, it won’t have any felt underneath.

    If the roof was Victorian it would have slates, that looks to be a “modern” extension. There appears to have been felt fitted as you can see some overlapping into the plastic gutters. however it looks to have degraded. Hence what roofer no 2 was saying to remove bottom few courses and add a new breathable membrane.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    They are man made slates fixed with copper nails and rivets, wouldn’t worry about the felt. Just get the missing/slipped?broken slates replaced.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    They should fit plastic trays rather than felt under the last row running off into the gutter, as the plastic won’t degrade in the elements.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    They are clearly early ones, i wouldn’t start fooking about stripping courses out to put some sort of DPM or eaves trays though, they will be very brittle. Guarenteed they will break others.
    PS I am a roofer (27yrs unfortunately.)

    keppoch
    Member

    Thanks for this, sounds like number 2 got closer to the issues but might be overcooking it. I have one other avenue to explore but otherwise number 2 will get the job, and yes I think they were offering a guarantee but the value of these is always a bit questionable to me.

    Yes the tiles are man made ones and seem to break quite often so yes brittle sounds about right! The pipe that bruneep spots is a drain pipe off the main roof elevation I think but I will double check tomorrow. I have been in the roof space in the last 12 months and all looked to be in good order.

    I don’t think this back section of the house is an extension as all the adjacent houses have exactly the same configuration, so that is victorian but the roof is newer than that and does appear to have felt in it.

    And yes the rivets are holding the tiles down in the wind, which often gets pretty gusty round these parts.

    wrightyson
    Member

    Upside down 😆
    If you don’t really know you shouldn’t advise!

    Premier Icon mucker
    Subscriber

    I may be wrong but those tiles look very similar to ours and if so they are asbestos concrete tiles.

    wrightyson
    Member

    They’re “fake slates,” come in a variety of guises and are usually a mix of slate, resins and cement.
    The ones pictured aren’t that early I’d say as the “earlier” ones didn’t have the bottom hole for the rivet. The rivet is there to stop curling of the tiles of which the earlier versions suffered badly and were subsequently very exposed to wind damage.

    Premier Icon psling
    Subscriber

    The first thing I’d do is try to establish why the internal bathroom wall is getting wet. Two cracked slates are unlikely to be the problem if the felt still has its integrity; if the felt has failed then the job is bigger than just replacing the damaged slates.
    If you are talking about the internal face of an external wall getting wet then the roof may be the problem and quote #2 is nearer the mark, new sarking felt required plus possibly some timber repairs if water has been getting in over a period of time.
    But, get up into that roof space during daylight and have a good look at the underfelt (look for spots of daylight) and with a torch have a good look into the eaves and look for water discolouration of rafters. At this time of year your leak may actually be coldspot condensation or some other problem eg how close are any water tanks/pipes in the roof space.

    PS looking at your photos, it appears to be the sort of product used circa 1970s/early 80s; 25 years would be a typical useful life expectancy for materials (slaters felt/cement based slates) used around that time.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Someone has pushed the cracked tile up back in place recently. You can see the mark on the one below.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    Slates not tiles!!

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Think we will have to agree to disagree IMHO slates are a natural product.

    In my previous employment I spent months fitting those “tiles” on a housing scheme, I hate them with a passion. I rather fit a nice welsh slate any day of the week

    Premier Icon psling
    Subscriber

    What did the Romans ever do for us..? 😆

    Holyzeus
    Member

    Disagree we will, i’ve spent 27 yrs fitting slates and tiles….
    Unfortunately fitting welsh slares is a rarity these days

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Aye those welsh slares are hard to come by. 😉

    slare

    boblo
    Member

    Quick hijack….

    My roof is felt with those horrible concrete pantiles. The felt has got some holes in it where the tiles have moved (near the valley edges). Can I just patch from the inside and repoint the valleys to stop the movement or has it all got to come off to replace the felt?

    keppoch
    Member

    Bruneep – It was me who pushed the tile back up recently, I figured the smaller the gap the less leaking until a fix is done.

    Having been up on a ladder today I can confirm that the grey pipe at the edge of the picture comes off a gutter from the main elevation. There is lead flashing from the back of the house and the evidence of the leak is not at that corner. The felt does indeed seem very brittle so I am guessing it has holed under the tiles as suggested by the roofers.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Ah I see it now, it looked like the pipe went through the lower roof. So thats a lot of water coming off one roof onto another. The gutter looks low at the “wrong” end does the water run over the gutter onto the wall? As there seems to be some run marks on the wall below the fasica board.

    Is there a lead flashing between wall and roof?

    Holyzeus
    Member

    A pic from the verge end would be good

    keppoch
    Member

    Yes there is a lot of water on the move in that area and I agree I’m not sure the run of the gutter is ideal but pretty sure it is not overflowing the gutter.

    The external wall has not been painted for 12+ years so those run marks are not that significant I don’t think and the external render is in good condition.

    Sum
    Member

    To establish that it is the cracked slates/tiles and holed felt causing the damp problem, could the OP slide a piece of plastic over the cracked tiles and underneath the ones above it to prevent water ingress?

    With regards to finding a trusty roofer, it looks like some of the neighbouring roofs have been recently done. I’d the neighbours their opinions.

    keppoch
    Member

    Sum sir that is a fine idea. The water ingress is not really that heavy (bubbling paintwork rather than a drip with a bucket underneath) as there is not a ceiling cavity as such at this point (internal ceiling directly backs roof structure) but the spread of the water marks on the internal ceiling have not grown since I put a sack weighed down with wood over it even though this (unlike your solution) can’t be stopping all the water only that directly falling on the tile.

    I am now off to the office stationary cuboard to ‘borrow’ a report cover which I think will be just the ticket for what you suggest!

    As for roofers, yes I have put a note through a neighbour who recently had a new roof; hopefully this will generate a lead.

    Holyzeus
    Member

    slide a piece of plastic over the cracked tiles and underneath the ones above it

    If you are doing this make sure you go up past the third slate otherwise its not doing anything

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