Afternoon All,

Not sure if this is a double-post – but just in case – there’s just a week left to mail your objections to 4x4s + trail bikers trashing the ancient bridleways of the Peak District:

Long Causeway that goes straight through Stanage + the Roych at the bottom end of Rushup Edge.

It’s crucial that the Peak Park gets as much mail as possible on this vitally important issue.

Here’s the link:

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/looking-after/consultations/tro-consultation-2012

Get typing.

ta.

What’s the problem?

They’re quite funny when stuck on Stanage and I rarely see them on the Roych – in fact the last one I saw there was a Peak District Authority one (silver Defender from memory)

Other people use ‘our’ trails differently to us.

first they came for the 4x4ists….

You won’t see me signing anything like that. Ever.

It’s just people doing their hobby, init?

Right, I’ll say it….. I own a 4×4

(and bought it from someone one here)

No

Good on you lot.

[/thread] ?

Nope, cos it’ll be the walkers signing against us next.

Last 4×4’s I’ve seen out on any trail was at night going UP Cumberland Clough and they defo shouldn’t be on there, but hey ho we shouldn’t have ridden half the stuff we did round the Goytt either

First the 4×4’s then the bikes.

Why should only people walking or on horseback enjoy the trails?

Kettles on. Brew anyone?

Not on your nelly

Sorry but NO…

What’s wrong with people sharing the rights of way?

The Peak District is not just for walkers!

Ed (mountain biker/greenlaner/walker)

Nope, cos it’ll be the walkers signing against us next.

This! Thin end of the wedge. Before you know it, the only people allowed in the countryside will be little old couples in Rovers, with tartan blankets and flasks of sweet tea

Another no from me

I will though declare an interest in that, I ride trail and enduro bikes [of the motorised version]

Jota180 – sounds fun!

I think this thread has inspired me to try out green laning. I hear there are some decent trails in Stanage? 🙂

and in an effort to turn the tide, the main difference is that people and bikes don’t rip the trail to shreds in the way motorised traffic does. An *awful* lot of money got spent on rebuilding Roych Clough not so long ago, and the damage done by motorised traffic is extensive.

I don’t own a 4×4 but ive watched as their legal rights have been chipped away. I spoke to an access officer up here when a BOAT was blocked, and their refusal to even discuss the matter was astonishing, especially given I would have thought that was their job.
I will be commenting on the proposal but will be against the ban TBH

I’ve just had a look and this campaign is to ban trail bikes, quad bikes and 4x4s. In my experience, the kind of people who propose things like this are never satisfied, and will see this as merely a step in their ‘crusade’. Chances are, if they get this through then, drunk on their little power-trips, they go looking for their next ‘target’

Which, I suspect, is where we come in

Isn’t that exactly whats happened in some areas of the Yorkshire Dales?

Nope, as with the others.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Well done for bringing it to our attention, now we can act in support of them. You can make do with using the other 98% of the trails the 4x4s and trailbikes don’t get to if you really hate them so much.

And people and bicycles DO rip trails to shreds, and unlike 4x4s and trail bikes they don’t stick to their assigned RoW either. The ONLY reason bicycles don’t suffer from more enforcement is it would be hard – pray THAT never changes. (Though compared to a night or two of heavy rain none of us wheeled or hoofed types manage much harm at all.)

First they came for the 4×4,
then the mopeds 😀
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYZVGxFRGZg[/video]

And people and bicycles DO rip trails to shreds

no they don’t. they have an impact, yes, but the damage caused by motorised traffic is exponentially greater

How dare they

the countryside is a place for quiet relaxation ans solemn reflection on the beauty of nature

NOT for people to have fun in

👿

Perhaps we should fence it off, so you can sit and look at its majesty?

In Vietnam there would have been a family of three and a chicken on that moped

Looking through the small print of the proposed TRO, you can still take a mobility scooter along them.

Has the OP gone away for another 7 months?

Another no from me. Since a lot of our local Rupps and byways have been made restricted byways they’ve become more overgrown and less usable than when the 4×4 used them. They may have made a bit of a mess at times but at least it kept them clear.

[people and bicycles] don’t [rip trails to shreds]. they have an impact, yes, but the damage caused by motorised traffic is exponentially greater

If you made mountain bikes all ride just the same 5% of the network (as opposed to 100%, plus trail centers, plus trails that don’t even officially exist) their ruts would be so deep there’d be lava in the bottom.

No

See: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/access/rightsofway/prow/default.aspx

Off roaders used to have about 5% access (*Eng+Wal) prior to CROW etc, it’s been brought down to about 2% of the total ‘tracks’ available.

mtbers have got a LOT of free centres built for them
walkers have got 100%+ acess (the + comes from 100 and some ‘right 2 roam’, coming coastal path etc etc)

The way to improve offroad XC cycling in this country would be to eat into the MASSIVE 78% sole access that walkers have rather helping cripple another minority user.

mtbers have got a LOT of free centres built for them

Car drivers have got a LOT of free motorways built for them 😀

cough, road tax, cough, fuel duty, cough, cough, also – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1402567/Kenyan-cyclists-on-M61.html

All this consultation does is highlight the utter perversity of ROW policy in England, which turns user against user as the whole system is based around “class”, “classifications” and their associated rights. Basically the system is entirely flawed, based on historical anachronisms, decided upon in a manner that is largely unaccountable (despite access forums and consultations), often resulting in decisions that are short-termist, divisive and, in the large part, unenforceable.

The idea that because certain “classes” of users are free to do whatever they so wish, whereas the mere presence of other “classes” of user is unacceptable – regardless of the impact either might actually have on the route, the environment, other users and land management is absurd. The system should be overhauled in its entirety, and access policy determined on the basis of what is sustainable and desirable today and into the future.

That would of course require compromise on all sides. For example, there may be routes with vehicular rights that would be vastly improved for the majority of users (walkers, cyclists, horse riders, disabled…) were motorised access to be curtailed, and, likewise, many estate or forestry tracks (for example) that go over “open access” (sic) land to which much higher rights could and should be opened. Similarly, as cyclists, we shouldn’t be riding stuff in a way that damages the track for others – but its hardly unreasonable to argue that we should be allowed to ride responsibly elsewhere if it causes no harm.

As it stands, too many people on all sides (riding, on foot, with engine, or without) are of the mindset that if they are OK, then **** everyone else concerned (as they look different they must be different, and so that’s fine), and the likelihood of landowners permitting higher access rights under the current system is low (understandably given the nature of the law).

Anyway, to get back to the OP, instead of ranting at a tangent, I wouldn’t get too het up about it, whether you want a TRO enforced or not. IME the ROW authorities tend to do what they want. Consultations are merely an exercise in governance, and as such are rarely more than box ticking to that effect.

If you tolerate this the MTBs will be next

Saw the thread title and thought I’d best express an opinion. However, it seems everyone else beat me to it.

The way to improve offroad XC cycling in this country would be to eat into the MASSIVE 78% sole access that walkers have rather helping cripple another minority user.

This^^

Always been of the opinion that a fair chunk of the erosion issues with MTB’s is down to the restrictions based upon cyclists.

what about tanks ?

No from me too.

Next it will be motor cross then us.

We cause tons of erosion is some areas look at the sides of the roman road in edale in winter.

You get some knobs in 4X4s and on crossers but mostly they are friendly just like us enjoying been out in the countryside ( or are we special cause we use our lungs and legs to get there). I’ve been knock of my bike by a crosser on the long causway become he was inpet but I’ve also been knocked of my bike at Cannock because he was a twunt.

I too have an opinion….but I can’t remember what it is.

Horses do massive damage to trails.

The ruts caused by a motor vehicle is limited to the height of the axle, it cannot be any deeper.

Horses can cause much deeper holes.