Another thread on here (Phil Gaimon) started to go down the helmets/Hi- Vis argument, with a few comments either way but lets expand it, if you fancy.

I personally go out lit up like a Blackpool tram, with “lid”, hi-vis, and lights, day or night, with the basic reasoning, I want to be seen. Lets not go down the route of “putting new riders off” tangent, I just want to hear why you do subscribe to the safe and be seen thinking, or “stealth” riders. Not those nobs in cities though who have a death wish. I’m particularly interested in why you wouldn’t wear a helmet.

Lets try to be civil chaps.

Damn it, I’m out of popcorn. Will marshmallows do?

I use a light in the daytime on my helmet – it’s always there I just turn it on. At night I use multiple. I don’t use hi viz but I always wear bright colours.

I’m particularly interested in why you wouldn’t wear a helmet

If you’re genuinely looking for opinions, I suggest you first make the effort to use the search function of this forum and thoroughly read through previous discussions of that subject. That will take you a wee while, and should cure you of your interest.

For me normally pop lights on for a road ride whatever time of day or night it is, plus a helmet.

Don’t do hi-viz unless commuting where I have a hi-viz backpack cover which is also waterproof.

Why would you not help minimise the chance of any potential incident happening (lights) or mitigate it if it does happen (helmet)?

Off road I dont need to be seen, on road I feel at risk even if I was lit up like Blackpool tower.

I judge my risks and take precautions I’m happy with, not those prescribed by peer pressure or social pressure. So for a bimble XC ride I’m not worried about riding without a helmet. FoD / BPW style riding, yes I would.

My current helmet is a bright yellow Giro Savant.
Most of my jerseys are vibrant colours (red, yellow, white).
My gloves are vibrant colours (red, orange).
If I’m popping out around dawn (or more likely dusk), I wear my vibrant yellow socks, at least one pair of which have a couple of reflective bands.
I don’t like “ninja coloured” bike frames.

I suspect the moving reflective socks have the most effect, but I feel safer wearing the rest.

Always have lights on during a road ride regardless of time of day, obviously more in winter or night time. Always worn a helmet, stems from riding at uni in the early 90s and my folks stating they’d only bring my bike up if I wore one, the commute into Manchester up the A6 was always interesting. So it’s habit, had a couple of spills (off road) where without one I would have suffered more than concussion. I hate the idea that as cyclists we should dress like a engineer on HS2, as it’s passing responsibility to us from those other road users that should be aware etc. I sometimes wear brighter clothes sometimes don’t its not a given.I should also that what could be seen as at odds with that thought, that my commuter has 3M reflective tape on all the tubes/ forks for added vis, I always feel commuting is when the highest risk is with everyone trying to get to their work etc at the same time.

Helmets are horrible to wear and offer very little in the way of protection even when well fitting and worn properly and its a tiny minority who wear them properly and have well fitting helmets. Those adjustable cradles mean an ill fitting helmet. If you can get a finger in between the shell and your head at any point its ill fitting. If you can pull it forwards to touch your nose or backwards to touch your neck its ill fitting. If you can get a mars bar in your gob the straps are not done up properly

Promotion of wearing helmets puts people off riding which damages the health of the nation

Helmets make accidents more likely and make outcomes worse in a significant proportion of accidents ( 30% in one very well designed study)

Cycling is a safe pursuit.

Do you wear a helmet when walking or in a car? Both would save far more lives with less damage to public health.

Follow the science

I wear one when minor impacts are likely – ie proper mtbing. Otherwise I do not. When I do wear one its a expensive proper fitting one with the straps done up properly

https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets
for a good overview of the data

Lights – I have a proper road light plus a flasher for road use in the dark and two rear ones.

I also have reflective tape all over my bike including pedal reflectors. How many of you that insist on helmets have pedal reflectors, wheel reflectors, a proper front and rear reflector?

Pedal reflectors are one of the best things you can have – mine are made up of amber reflective tape. I look like a Christmas tree at night

Do you wear a helmet when walking or in a car? Both would save far more lives with less damage to public health.

What a silly quip. When walking or in the car and should an incident occur, in neither circumstance would my head likely be to first thing to hit the ground/hard object. On a bike you can go from sitting down at 20mph to headfirst into the road in the blink of an eye. I fully respect your choice not to wear a helmet, but in most circumstances, a helmet, at the very least, would prevent your head hitting a hard and abrasive object. As to whether it reduces impact beneficially, most evidence seems to indicate that, if worn correctly, that it does.

Do helmets really discourage people these days?

Me? Always a helmet, always at least 1 daybright light, only in the winter do i use high vis, but also have at least 3 lights per end of the bike.

Daffy – actually helmets in cars and for people walking would save more lives. And yes the experience worldwide shows that even promoting helmets puts of enough people to make public health worse.

Follow the data, follow the science. read that link I provided which provides all the links to the data

Do you have legally mandatory reflectors on your bike?

TJ please, now that you’ve made the point, for your sake and the rest of us please just step away from this thread.

Helmets are horrible to wear and offer very little in the way of protection

Well, there’s a jolly well thought about sentence. For that reason.. etc. I was just watching Friday Fails, thinking thanks gawd he was wearing a helmet.
Maybe this thread could be added to Friday Fails

Around town: visible clothing but no helmet

roadying: visible clothing and helmet

touring: visible clothing and a helmet depending on terrain – Holland rarely, Spain usually.

MTBing: visible clothing (hunters are common) and helmet most of the time. Our club kit was designed with hunters in mind – bright blue and orange which are different non-woodland colours.

“legal mandatory refectors” – no, none.

Its true tho Dez. Wear a helmet that fits properly and is worn properly and its uncomfortable and sweaty which is why almost no one wears them properly.

Nor do they offer significant protection from major injuries. read the science, follow the data

If anyone can show me any data that hi viz helps significantly I would adopt it. As it is I tend to wear a bright red jacket.

will do one wheel 🙂

I just beg folk to – you know the mantra – follow the science

Why would you not help minimise the chance of any potential incident happening (lights) or mitigate it if it does happen (helmet)?

Following this logic you should probably put on a helmet the moment you get out of bed and only take it off once you return.

What a silly quip. When walking or in the car and should an incident occur, in neither circumstance would my head likely be to first thing to hit the ground/hard object.

Aren’t a significant proportion of deaths in RTAs caused by head injuries? In fact some reports suggest they are the LEADING cause of head injuries.

And statistically, walking is the most dangerous mode of transport.

So not really a silly quip at all.

Personally, I run day time lights much of the time because I don’t trust drivers to be paying enough attention. I also generally wear reasonably bright clothing with hi-viz reflectives. I have stopped wearing a helmet on some rides though, particularly away from traffic because I’ve decided the actual risk of serious head injury while dawdling along a railway path is miniscule. It’s not always practical. It’s quite liberating to just jump on your bike with whatever you’re wearing. And I honestly feel there is a lot of negativity in this whole debate that I don’t want to contribute to through my own actions.

a bright red jacket.

To about 10% of the male population red is not very bright. I’m colour blind and see blue better. Yellow/orange and blue for the win.

TJ, i have read the links you provided, as it happens that was my opinion anyway, i agree with it, and I believe you are correct.
But (this is just my personal opinion here) nobody is going to change their mind because of it, ‘common sense’ absolutely dictates that you’re bound to be safer wearing a helmet vs not, and people mostly follow ‘common sense’ rather than actual science.
See also smoking (my grandad smoked and lived to 90 so it must be safe)
Etc.
I hope you remember that we have spoken several times before, including email about employment law, and that you will realise I’m not having a go at you, or in fact anyone else.

Aren’t a significant proportion of deaths in RTAs caused by head injuries? In fact some reports suggest they are the LEADING cause of head injuries.

Yes, and probably why racing drivers wear helmets (proper helmets that actually work but would clearly not be a comfortable helmet to wear when riding a bike)

I don’t wear a helmet because I don’t assess the risk worthy of wearing a helmet. Just as I don’t assess the risk of walking down the street or driving in a car worthy of wearing a helmet either.

It really is that simple and no debate will change that which is why these debates are stupid. If you feel you want to wear a helmet then good for you, I haven’t got a problem with that. If you want to go out dressed in leathers in case you slide down the road, again good for you, none of my business.

Anyway, back OT,
I use none of these things in daytime, but i also never cycle on roads that are faster than 30mph.
At night i use a combo of tuv approved front lights, exposure rear light (on constant),
Reflectors on bike and clothing.
I only wear a helmet for actual mtb, a couple of times I’ve scratched my head on low hanging branches whilst not wearing one, which looks terrifying due to blood, but I couldn’t even feel/hadn’t noticed.
It’s a personal choice, I don’t force my views on others.

Depends on the ride, and in truth, if my wife will see me.
Commute – loads of lights and reflectors on bike and helmet, hi-viz gilet, full Christmas. But, it’s on busy roads into a city centre so I assess the risk.
Normal road ride – helmet and I try to wear kit that isn’t black. But no lights unless it’s dark. Occasionally I’ll ditch the helmet as it’s quite nice just riding in a cap.
Pootle to the shop/pub – normal clothes, no helmet, I’m not cycling here, I’m using a bike for transport. Short distance, low speed, little traffic.
Towpaths and gravel – often no helmet, and never hi-viz, again, quiet roads and low risk.
MTB – Lycra and helmet. Right clothes for the job and I don’t like hitting my head on branches.

I weigh up the risks and make my decision. My helmets are all pretty damn comfy and I’m quite happy wearing them, just sometimes I chose not too.

I rarely ride busy roads if I’m mountain biking so don’t bother with any special. For commuting and the like then it is mostly round town so hi Viz is the main thing. A couple of decent, but not mega bright, lights. I know from driving that a fluro jacket makes the most difference, especially after dark. Helmet always, unless I’m popping to the shops at the end of the road.

But in almost all road cars, there are substantial safety features designed to reduce head injury so as not to require a helmet. Almost none of these features exist in a racing car and certainly don’t on a bike. Statistics regarding modes of transport are usually covered in deaths/bn-miles. Walking has the largest number of people doing it and covering the fewest miles, so it would score highly, also people of all ages do it, which isn’t the case for other forms.

Whilst I will admit that my head gets warm in a helmet, Mine is worn correctly and at 10-15mph, doesn’t create a sweat unless it’s REALLY warm outside. Certainly a Beanie cap wouldn’t be any more cool.

But in almost all road cars, there are substantial safety features designed to reduce head injury so as not to require a helmet.

It still remains the leading cause of fatal head injuries despite these features.

The statistics are skewed on walking I’ll give you that. But again, the risks are still present.

Cycling is really quite safe given a safe environment.

I’m particularly interested in why you wouldn’t wear a helmet

Sometimes I’ve been known to ride off without putting my helmet on, I usually notice by the time I get to the end of the road, if out for mtb ride I go back, if one a group road ride I go back, if out on a solo road ride I might just carry on without helmet.

in almost all road cars, there are substantial safety features designed to reduce head injury so as not to require a helmet

… and yet despite this more lives would be saved if people in cars wore helmets. Really, go and read tjs links.

My daily commute is all off-road. I have to cross two minor roads, and there’s about 50m at the start before I reach the cycle path. The rest is on cycle paths, canal paths, and across a couple of fields and woods. Because of this I don’t wear much safety gear. I don’t use lights and I wear a lot of dark colours. I do wear reflective ankle straps and have reflector tape on my pedals.
In the winter I use lights to see where I’m going and so pedestrians can see me.

I have a helmet but it’s rarely used. I use it if I’m off for a long ride which will involve lots of road riding. I’d also put on bright or reflective clothes for that, and make sure I had lights with me.

There was a paper published a few years ago in the IAE which looked at the meta data of previous studies into the effectiveness of helmets in cycling injuries. It was found that there was a significant decrease in the odds of serious/fatal head injuries and facial injuries when a helmet was worn. It also showed that there was no significant correlation between helmet use and neck injuries. As it was essentially a scrape of previous study data that fit within a broad criteria, the sample size was huge by comparison with other studies.

Seemed fairly conclusive to me.

… and yet despite this more lives would be saved if people in cars wore helmets. Really, go and read tjs links.

I did, and of course more lives would be saved; more people use cars than bikes and more cars run into each other and other things and at higher speeds than than do bikes. But as this is about BIKES, then the evidence seems clear, a helmet will reduce your chances of serious head injury in the event of an accident.

Context.

I’ve never been in a car accident and I’ve never fallen off my car in thousands of hours travelled, but I have been in several cycle accidents and have fallen off many times in less numbers of hours travelled. You’re suggesting that in removing the one and only safety feature of my bike it will not in any way skew the odds against me?

I always wear a helmet when out on my own – there’s little evidence they actually make things worse and who knows it might reduce the injuries if the worst were to happen and a car smacks into me. Or if I tumble if it’ll make the ground-head event less uncomfortable.

TBH, the thing that makes me wear one always is that there have many cases where an insurance payout has been reduced by a judge because the (victim) rider chose not to wear a helmet and therefore apparently took some of the risk on them selves.

Seems grossly unfair, but that’s how the law goes.

When out on the tandem with the kids rarely do, they always do. If they bump heads at low speed due to accidental loading/unloading tumbles they help.

Evidence suggest that motorists give riders with helmets and Lycra in less space than those who look less competent – and I’d like my kids to be given as much room as the people in cars are willing to concede. It’s often disappointingly little room given that it’s a four metre long bright yellow three seat tandem WITH KIDS ON, but there you go.

TBF modern helmets are so good that I really don’t see the point in NOT wearing one. They are lightweight, ventilated and (if chosen correctly) very comfortable.

The last helmet I bought was a replacement for one I cracked in a fall. I’m not saying that “it saved my life” but it certainly prevented a more serious injury and the potential ruination of my pretty face.

I prefer brighter colours if riding on the road but not necessarily fluorescent.

I don’t usually use lights in daytime.

Adult personal risk assessment. Personal choice and I don’t care if others make a different choice, but I do care if people impose their choice on me.

Commuting and running errands. No helmet. Risk of falling off, very low, risk of falling off and hitting head even lower. Chance of massive accident with motor vehicle that nearly kills me, very low and comparable to many other risks that around during the day. Such a big accident helmet maybe of some limited used but the same to be said for any unlikely event involving a head injury. The same argument could be made of other pads.

Off road, jumping, BMX. Chance of falling off, high. Chance of hitting my head falling off, medium. I wear a helmet.

Town bike – No helmet, no lights in daytime, no cycle specific clothing, no hi-viz.
MTB – Helmet, no lights in day, riding kit, no hi viz
Roadie – Helmet, rear flasher, lycra, my rain jacket is hi viz, rest of kit isn’t.
Tourer – occasional helmet, no daytime lights, little cycle specific clothing, no hi viz.

I’ve rationalised it that if my safety is down to the crap driving standards of others, I’ve probably chosen the wrong route or I just don’t go since it wouldn’t be fun. Roadie is a special case as I only own one for occasional jaunts with some roadie friends and I just couldn’t keep up on the tourer.

Damn it, I’m out of popcorn. Will marshmallows do?

Nah, too squidgy for me, thanks.

Its true tho Dez. Wear a helmet that fits properly and is worn properly and its uncomfortable and sweaty which is why almost no one wears them properly.

Nor do they offer significant protection from major injuries. read the science, follow the data

No, tj, they’re not ‘sweaty and uncomfortable’, unless you’re wearing a BMX-style potty on your head. I’ve worn a crash hat for almost as long as I’ve been riding a mountain bike and that’s nearly thirty years, and on most of the occasions I’ve hit the ground my head fortunately hasn’t, but a number of times I’ve ducked under a low branch and got a really hard bang on my head, and the one time I hit the ground really hard was riding into town after work; I turned onto a cycle path at walking speed, and my bike went out from under me. I hit the tarmac hard enough on my left knee to now have permanent damage that’s led to osteoarthritis, my left shoulder also took a hard impact, aggravating an existing cycling injury, and my head also took a very hard knock, leaving my face badly grazed, but my helmet peak took the brunt of the impact.
I was lucky, if it hadn’t been for my helmet I know from my knee injury that I was very lucky not to have been going to A&E.
Tj, I really do not give a shit what the ****ing data or science might say, I know from personal experience what my crash helmet did, which was save me from what could easily have been a serious head injury.
It’s a fact that many people have either died or been very seriously injured after a single punch where their head has hit the pavement, so what does your precious data say about that?
And please don’t try to wiggle out of it by saying the circumstances are different, they’re not, it’s a human head hitting the ground hard with no protection.

a number of times I’ve ducked under a low branch and got a really hard bang on my head

I know an Edinburgh resident this happened to.

Often rides with his SO on a tandem.

I can’t quite remember his name but I’m sure I might recall it if I scroll up through this thread.

I love how tj quotes science, folk argue against him using no science whatsoever (sample size 1 personal stories mostly) and then say he shouldn’t go on about it.

🙄

Idiots.

Aren’t a significant proportion of deaths in RTAs caused by head injuries? In fact some reports suggest they are the LEADING cause of head injuries.

Surely the main cause is poor driving. I’d rather they focused effort on improving driving standards and reducing accidents than insisting we all wear body armour…

Helmets for pedestrians / cyclists being hit by cars is victim blaming, you knew you were going to get hit so why weren’t you wearing a helmet. Oddly enough you don’t blame gunshot victims for not wearing bullet proof jackets though.

What would make a big difference is giving cyclists right of way / presumed liability for motorists. We were in Berlin last year and what impressed me most was the huge number of cyclists (without helmets) riding with children, on roads with cars and the cars just had to give way even with what I would consider dangerous undertaking; it was a joy to watch. Sadly, if they rode like that in the UK they’d end up dead in under a week.

I’m mostly lit up like the proverbial
Hi-viz, helmet, reflectives lots of lights & reflectors also cameras front & back
Some **** kills me then I don’t want their lawyer having an easy time getting them off, nor my family hearing the implication that I brought it all upon myself.