Health and safety gone mad.

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  • Health and safety gone mad.
  • yossarian
    Member

    Go on, explain to me how this is elf n safety gone mad.

    If you witness people endangering themselves and others by reckless behaviour like you say you need to MTFU and report it before someone is killed and a family loses a father/husband/son.

    seavers
    Member

    That guy has got some grapes!

    5thElefant
    Member

    I’d feel safer, and probably would be safer, doing that than cycling in a town.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    MTFU and report it? That man is badass, reporting him would be MTFDown. Danger is cool, surely people on an MTB forum should know this. 8)

    yossarian
    Member

    MTFU and report it? That man is badass, reporting him would be MTFDown. Danger is cool, surely people on an MTB forum should know this.

    He’s a dick who’s behaviour puts himself and others that he affects or influences at risk. Once you grow a little hair round your nuts the realisation will kick in. Until then try not to hurt yourself.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    36 mate. If growing hair around my nuts involves losing any sense of humour I’ll start shaving my balls thanks.

    yossarian
    Member

    Given your obvious brain capacity I’d not advise you to put a razor blade anywhere near your sack.

    Tom B
    Member

    I shave my balls now…..did a thread about on here and everything.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    Again, sense of humour. You are one uptight individual. I was leaving a humorous comment on an Internet forum. I apologise if I offended your sensibilities. How exactly would one go about judging intelligence based off an attempt at a humorous comment? Chill.

    mattsccm
    Member

    Mad!
    if he is risking others without their consent then its naughty. If he has their consent then it is legit. His own safety has sod all to do with anyone else. No one has a moral right to insist on another person looking after themselves.
    as usual our law is an ass.

    Euro
    Member

    You’re so old and mature and cool and funny and everything yossarian.

    yossarian
    Member

    You’re so old and mature and cool and funny and everything yossarian.

    Yeah, it’s drag. Trouble is, once you’ve investigated a few fatalities and you’ve spoken to colleagues about how and why and its fairly apparent that someone just thought it would be cool to not play by the rules which are there to stop people getting killed you tend to get a little bored with armchair heroes who don’t understand that a proper **** up might result in death or permanent disablement him or others.

    Take our death defying window cleaner. Do I care enormously about him? No, his choice, his risk. His wife/ kids/ mates might not like it but its his choice. The company who’s building he’s cleaning need to have a word with themselves though. He’s operating on their property, with their consent and carrying their liability. What about the people walking below. If Spider-Man falls off and wipes someone out is it still cool? Do they have a choice? Who protects them against fuckwittery? The law is the answer and quite honestly the HSE, generally, are one of the few enforcers who are genuinely on our side.

    chewkw
    Member

    Apart from not wearing a harness I don’t see any problem at all at that height.

    If he falls he falls but I am not going to tell him how to do his job …

    πŸ™„

    glupton1976
    Member

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-23098040

    Window cleaner and customer fined because the window cleaner was walking along ledges in the building to clean the windows.

    I see this in Edinburgh and Glasgow all the time and at much higher heights than the guy in the video.

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    He’s acting selfishly by behaving like that, IMO. Unfortunately the law states that other people are responsible for him in that situation, so if he dies, it’s somebody else who goes to prison.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    Should we stop Danny Macaskill from riding, big wave riders from surfing, Rodney Mullen from skating or the Nitro Circus team from performing asshatery because it’s dangerous and may result in them or somebody else getting injured? Slightly different from the OP, but the same principles apply. Report them and fine them for pushing boundaries and not playing by the rules?

    chewkw
    Member

    wallop – Member

    He’s acting selfishly by behaving like that, IMO. Unfortunately the law states that other people are responsible for him in that situation, so if he dies, it’s somebody else who goes to prison.

    Yes, the blame culture is so deeply ingrained in the masses the system is screwed.

    Lifer – Member

    He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

    If that is the case his family should be prosecuted.

    πŸ™„

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    But Danny McAskill isn’t working on behalf of his employer, in the way that the window cleaner is. Nobody is responsible for Danny, other than himself.

    It’s not the same.

    Edric 64
    Member

    As a window cleaner who has done contract work for big firms I know that he should have submitted his method statement and risk assessment to the company .If he is on their property not working safely they are as guilty as he is for not making sure he complies with Health and Safety rules .Years ago I think it was Westminster council who were fined after a window cleaner fell 4 floors from a plank bridged across a corner .I got reprimanded on one site for standing on a milk crate as it was not an approved step .Took a caravan step next month and that was fine

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    It’s not a blame culture, it’s called Health & Safety at Work. Would you rather your employer took no H&S responsibility in your workplace?

    b r
    Member

    Having worked for companies where we usually had employee deaths, every year, this isn’t a case of ‘H&S gorn mad’ – although not sure a fine is needed when he’s self-employed.

    piemonster
    Member

    He could have fallen onto a rare bird.

    Or decapitated a seagull

    glupton1976
    Member

    I see this in Edinburgh and Glasgow all the time and at much higher heights than the guy in the video.

    ….

    piemonster
    Member

    Having worked for companies where we usually had employee deaths, every year, this isn’t a case of ‘H&S gorn mad’ – although not sure a fine is needed when he’s self-employed.

    Just about sums it up for me too.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    True Wallop, but what if he injures somebody else or God forbid a rare bird? I was referring more to the reckless behaviour and reporting people for partaking in it as opposed to the legal and blame aspects. Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

    Apologies, should have been clearer in my previous post. πŸ˜₯

    yossarian
    Member

    Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

    I’m 1000% sure that Danny’s legal people and the guys that film his stuff have got this bit nailed on. Nob head window cleaner guy and the employer didn’t , hence the fine.

    Speaking outside court, a Loch Fyne spokesman said the company took health and safety “extremely seriously” and expected the same from its contractors.

    “We accept today’s decision and are grateful this isolated incident in Bath was brought to our attention.

    “As a result we have put tighter measures in place to prevent anything similar happening again, including stricter procedures for our restaurant manager to follow when using external contractors.”

    chewkw
    Member

    funkmasterp – Member
    Would you report somebody such as Macaskill if you saw him performing in the street because what he does could be seen as endangering himself and others?

    Nope. I may suggest wearing a harness but apart from that I want to see emergency helicopter in action. 😈

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    Not trying to start an argument, but what about before he had a legal team and insurance. He must have developed those skills in the streets, the same as most pro street skaters. Would you consider it reckless endangerment then and report him for it?

    Joking aside, the window cleaner clearly acted like a tool. Yossarian, genuinely out of interest what do you think of the French fella who climbs buildings? Apologies, I can’t think of his name right now.

    project
    Member

    Yeah, it’s drag. Trouble is, once you’ve investigated a few fatalities and you’ve spoken to colleagues about how and why and its fairly apparent that someone just thought it would be cool to not play by the rules which are there to stop people getting killed you tend to get a little bored with armchair heroes who don’t understand that a proper **** up might result in death or permanent disablement him or others.

    Take our death defying window cleaner. Do I care enormously about him? No, his choice, his risk. His wife/ kids/ mates might not like it but its his choice. The company who’s building he’s cleaning need to have a word with themselves though. He’s operating on their property, with their consent and carrying their liability. What about the people walking below. If Spider-Man falls off and wipes someone out is it still cool? Do they have a choice? Who protects them against fuckwittery? The law is the answer and quite honestly the HSE, generally, are one of the few enforcers who are genuinely on our side.

    Every so often somebody publishes something on here that is so correct and true, yet others still object, perhaps if the window cleaner fell on your dad or kids and put them in a parylysed state or even killed them, or they had the job if you can call it that of going round to the families house and telling them of the injury or fatality,then you would take the easy way out and get it reported and pass the buck onto somebody who can and will enforce the rules and stop this dangerous behaviour.

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    If health and safety rules are not enforced then a bidding war to the bottom ensues. A company that followed correct procedures couldn’t compete with cowboys. Without rules employers can pressure employees to take the risks.

    A total separate issue from risk anyone chooses to take elsewhere that affect only them like technical MTBing, mountaineering etc.

    yossarian
    Member

    Not trying to start an argument, but what about before he had a legal team and insurance. He must have developed those skills in the streets, the same as most pro street skaters. Would you consider it reckless endangerment then and report him for it?

    Fair point. My response is no, unless what he was doing was likely to impact on others. As the owner/occupier of a number of high rise buildings it’s a constant battle to let people have fun without killing themselves or others. Common sense applies. We get skaters and bmxers at our place after hours. My security team, through my direction, give them a little advice on traffic routes and hazardous areas. We also give them access to the toilets and water etc as they are a good bunch of lads and a second pair of eyes on the site. On a couple of occasions my guys have had to give a fallee some plasters etc but its up to them. No-one else is around and we accommodate as best we can.

    Joking aside, the window cleaner clearly acted like a tool. Yossarian, genuinely out of interest what do you think of the French fella who climbs buildings? Apologies, I can’t think of his name right now.

    Alain Robert? I love what he does but I can see why the owners of the buildings react like they do. If he gets stuck or falls they have to sort it out.

    Mikeypies
    Member

    health and safety gone right

    he was risking people walking on the path below him
    undercutting window cleaners who had quoted for doing the job safely
    the employer had a duty of care, if they awarded the contract on price along without asking how it was to be carried out they deserved the fine they got

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    Hats off to you for treating young skaters and BMX riders so well. You might be helping out the next Mullen or Hoffman πŸ™‚ I can now see why you see the window cleaner in the OP’s post in the light you do. From your perspective as a building owner and the responsibilities that entails people like him must be a bloody nightmare.

    Here’s hoping Monsieur Robert doesn’t decide to climb one of your buildings πŸ™‚

    mattsccm
    Member

    If it affects no one , no on should have any duty.
    If he was risking dropping a bucket on some one fair enough but the principle that everyone is responsible for each other is just plain madness. If some one says he will do a job for me, morally its his job to see if he is safe Not mine. Our whole culture of having some one to blame and protect our arses is just sad.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Did you read the thread mattsccm?

    In that situation he’s not so isolated that he won’t affect anyone else if he makes a mistake.

    yossarian
    Member

    Hats off to you for treating young skaters and BMX riders so well. You might be helping out the next Mullen or Hoffman I can now see why you see the window cleaner in the OP’s post in the light you do. From your perspective as a building owner and the responsibilities that entails people like him must be a bloody nightmare.
    Here’s hoping Monsieur Robert doesn’t decide to climb one of your buildings

    Cheers funkmasterp πŸ™‚ they are a decent bunch of kids and I genuinely can’t see any reason to kick them out. We do occasionally have to intervene when they stack up pallets to get into roofs to attempt ridiculous acid drops.

    I’d love it if Robert had a go, I’d have to pretend I didn’t though. A mate of mine once broke into Canterbury cathedral and scaled Bell Harry. He told the police he wanted to get closer to God. πŸ˜€

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Anybody who thinks he’s not endangering others just look up Loch Fyne Milsom Hotel in Bath on Streetview. It’s at the corner of two very busy footpaths in the shopping area of Bath.

    project
    Member

    a health and safety failing that resulted in a fatality.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-23100844

    was it a failing or a tragic accident, the court decided it was a failing.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 67 total)

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