Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 51 total)
  • Have we done the Azim Rafiq thread yet?
  • geordiemick00
    Free Member

    I’ve followed this debacle with great interest. I’m from a NE mining town, I’m 47 and can remember the days when we used to use such outdated terms. Even now, there’s barely any BAME people around. I went to school with a lad who’s dad owned the local corner shop and often reflect on how he must have felt when 99.9% of the school were white and referred to his shop as …(you can guess)

    I dated a lass from Halifax in the late 2010’s and was gobsmacked at the ‘banter’ between the Asian community and the white folk. It appeared to me that both parties gave as good as they got, it was fair game to use the usual slurs against each other, surprisingly in jovial situations as well as anger.

    When the Rafiq stuff hit the TV this week I bought into his pain, I genuinely felt sorry for him, but also thought I could see the ‘banter’ they referred to as I’d seen it. So I was sort of wondering if this guy was using his position for other agendas.

    Then today, presumably the sort of people who sift through 10 years of tweets that found the posts about him, have only gone and found his tweets that were anti-Semitic.

    Am I alone in thinking he looks like a bit of a twit now? Or is it mission accomplished now and take the hit of his own actions as collateral damage?

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Definitely in the Twit category. I heard it on the news & couldn’t believe it.
    Maybe he only has a one sided memory?

    doris5000
    Full Member

    I thought Jonathan Liew was pretty good in the guardian about it –

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/nov/16/azeem-rafiqs-testimony-exposes-how-power-works-in-cricket-and-in-britain

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    The poor sod is damned now as an antisemitic message he sent from a decade back has been dredged up.

    That will not be used by a certain segment of society to undermine anything he says.

    Stainypants
    Full Member

    Regardless of what he has done in the past, using the p word to describe a work colleague is absolutely appalling and then to cover it up as banter is even worse.

    This situation has really angered me. In a former role I managed probably the most ethnically diverse teams you could imagine and count many of old team as friends. If this has happened in my company they’d be booted instantly.

    The fact he’s made racist comment suddenly doesn’t excuse the horrendous racism within Yorkshire cricket club.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    used by a certain segment of society to undermine anything he says.

    Which is why it’s the headline story in the DM.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    I think he’s been quite circumspect and probably initiated some long overdue changes in cricket

    He’s also learnt that it cuts both ways which is a valuable lesson

    I don’t think he’s a twit, he has some very pertinent points to make. He apologized straight away on his social media past. Remember he has never tried to focus on an individual, he has been very clear it’s an institutional problem. He’ll probably also now be someone who doesn’t let the antisemitic stuff pass through his social circle unchallenged.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Wasn’t aware of the revelation about him today.

    He seemed to be seeking much needed changes rather than playing the victim card. As a middle aged, middle class straight white guy I have nothing to compare his experience with. I felt genuine angry at the way he appears to gave been treated, and from a young age. Gobsmacked it was accepted and excused in the 21st century in this country, but recent conversations with my boss, who is of Caribbean descent, have made me realise it’s still there.

    Yes, we probably all said or did inappropriate stuff when we were young and didn’t understand what the effect was. But there’s no excuse in the last 5-10 years for any responsible adult not to know when it’s wrong.

    pk13
    Full Member

    It’s going to kill Yorkshire CCC . Lots of he said this you said that going about now including all sorts.
    I watched the select committee the ECB where terrible they have no clue what’s been going on .turning a blind eye or incompetent leadership who knows. changing room/boardroom bun fights have been going on for years even at international level but the ECB never knew it was a toxic relationship.

    There is more to come out according to the gossip whispers most of it racist. Tee shirts with slogans, anti white anti black infact I don’t think any race or ethnicity will escape the name calling. the ECB have took the cash and ignored the game so we have been left with this mess. Cricket has lost huge potential from the uk born asian playing community how many great players have been overlooked. And that’s the real crime….
    As for the players involved some of them will be out of jobs I’m sure, they need to take a very long look in the mirror.
    This is not going away.

    avdave2
    Full Member

    I think if you are going to do what he has done it’s probably a good idea to start with ” like everyone else I have done and said things in the past which I regret.”

    Start with that and you can’t so easily be undermined later.

    edhornby
    Full Member

    Azim’s evidence to the HoC select committee was totally believable. When you consider that Yorkshire have one of the biggest Asian communities around Leeds and Bradford and yet so few players have come through the club and into the England side it’s clear why, thanks to his bravery in calling out the racist mentality.

    Remember that it’s not just the outright hostile nasty stuff (of which some were but not all) but it’s also the lack of care that others had and he didn’t, the lack of belief that he could be an integral part of the team and have his views respected.

    The fact that someone has gone through every item of his social media looking for a way to blame back says it all.

    pondo
    Full Member

    As a middle aged, middle class straight white guy I have nothing to compare his experience with. I felt genuine angry at the way he appears to gave been treated, and from a young age. Gobsmacked it was accepted and excused in the 21st century in this country, but recent conversations with my boss, who is of Caribbean descent, have made me realise it’s still there.

    This*, and…

    The fact that someone has gone through every item of his social media looking for a way to blame back says it all.

    * I mean, my boss is not your boss, obvs, but much of what I’ve learned since May last year has opened my eyes to a lot of realities I would have previously scoffed at.

    andylc
    Free Member

    I have every sympathy with him with regards to this, and find it absolutely incredible that this sort of things still exists, However, since a significant part of this involves dredging up comments made for instance by Michael Vaughan 12 years ago, for which Rafiq has already called on the BBC to sack him for, I’m afraid it comes across pretty terribly that he would have ever made documented racist comments himself. Doesn’t change the validity of the issues against Yorkshire cricket and possibly the game as a whole, but I certainly have a great deal less respect for him now than I did 24 hours ago.

    cloggy
    Full Member

    But it’s not really about him, we all err. It’s about an institututionally racist culture; iike the Met Police… and er Britain. If you really think this is incredible well just what pampered cloud have you been living on? There’s none so blind as those who will not see.

    jimw
    Free Member

    I genuinely felt sorry for him, but also thought I could see the ‘banter’ they referred to as I’d seen it.

    wasn’t his central point that one side may have seen it as ‘banter’ the other as very hurtful. And it was 2017 not the 1980’s

    Another point he has made repeatedly is that if people apologised , as Matt Hoggard has for example, they deserve a second chance. He has apologised immediately about the tweets he made as a 19year old and a number of people from the Jewish community have already said that he seems genuine in his apology. Hopefully he will learn from this and ensure he tackles anti-semitism in society as he would expect others to tackle any other form of racism.

    I seem to remember that when some tweets made by Ollie Robinson emerged in June, a section of the press and their readership insisted it was dreadful that an adult should be tarred and sanctioned for tweets he made as a teenager. What’s the betting they are now condemning Rafiq.

    andylc
    Free Member

    Agreed, but he is calling for Micheal Vaughan’s head on a stick over one thing that was allegedly said 12 years ago. Where exactly is the difference? Other than MV is consistently denying it rather than apologising.

    cloggy
    Full Member

    That’s enough of a difference. MV was in a position of influence. It behoved him to set an example. He didn’t, and doesn’t want to admit it.

    pk13
    Full Member

    Are people only sorry when they get caught out?
    There are some old grudges being brought to bare here. the ECB are getting a get out jail card and the issues will get lost in the fluff.

    cloggy
    Full Member

    They won’t at YCC. Not with the new guy in charge.

    grum
    Free Member

    All the people who were against going through old tweets looking for racism are now suddenly in favour of it eh.

    I was always taught two wrongs don’t make a right, so whatever he’s done, racist ‘banter’ (which let’s face it often veers into bullying) isn’t ok.

    Generalisation alert but my experience of S Asian heritage British people is they are often pretty racist themselves, but it just is different when you are the dominant/powerful group in a setting, punching down, as it seems to be with white players/staff at Yorkshire.

    I’ve lived in Leeds and the level of casual racism from locals I worked with was pretty staggering, though this was 20 years ago. Sounds like perhaps not much has changed.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    the National Sport is a national disgrace from top to bottom.

    shinton
    Free Member

    Where exactly is the difference?

    Ex England cricket captain versus 19 year old rookie?

    The worrying aspect for me is Joe Root not coming out and commenting on the racism that has existed during his time at Yorkshire.

    cloggy
    Full Member

    I found the same up in Durham. I’d say the North and the Midlands are more overtly racist. They don’t hide it as well as they do down south.

    pk13
    Full Member

    @cloggy
    Lord patel seems a good bloke but it’s a huge challenge good job he loves cricket.

    stevenmenmuir
    Free Member

    I was talking about this with a friend yesterday. She’s a nurse and two of her colleagues were recently subjected to racist abuse. She then told me that one of the local hospitals has a permanent police presence just to deal with the racism from patients. What is wrong with people?

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    WRT calling for Vaughan’s head. I watched some of the select committee and he was pointedly saying it wasn’t about Vaughan

    “I don’t want to make this about Michael,” said Rafiq at the hearing, before adding: “He probably doesn’t remember it as it doesn’t mean anything to him.”

    Subsequently Vaughan continues to deny it, which I think is where the problem now comes, given two other players have confirmed Rafiq’s version.

    Whereas Hoggard, Lloyd, etc. have all got in touch and apologised.

    andylc
    Free Member

    I’m sorry there is no excuse for it, regardless of who you are, what position you are in or your age.

    Doesn’t change anything about the investigation and actions that need to be taken, but I’m just saying I have lost some respect for the guy.

    As far as the call to sack Vaughan, looking at it again that’s from an article in The Sun and pretty shocking when it comes to actual facts!

    Agreed Micheal Vaughan has handled it badly too, and left himself in a hole that he can’t really get out of now by repeatedly denying it happened.

    ctk
    Full Member

    What Vaughan said though is absolutely horrible as is all the Kevin stuff. Not sure how MV gets out of this situation tbh.

    cloggy
    Full Member

    Azim was 19 at the time, barely more than a child and certainly not worldly wise.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    I don’t think the fact that he’s been called out on racist comments himself invalidates his point about institutional racism in the sport. But it does make him look a bit of a hypocrite, especially when it comes to MV.

    jambourgie
    Free Member

    If you think cricket is racist you should see snooker. Twenty two balls on the table and only one of them black!

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    The issue I have with all this is that it isn’t just about a tweet or an off the cuff remark. I could understand why you might not remember saying or texting something over 10 years ago. However you don’t say or do these things without actually holding those particular views at the time. How can you ‘forget’ that you held anti-Semitic views. Or racist in some other way. Doesn’t really convince me.

    twistedpencil
    Full Member

    Whilst he has spouted antisemitic views it doesn’t necessarily mean he understood the context of them. Bearing in my he was a young sportsman being subjected to racism day in day out the use of racist language would have been second nature to him. Not condoning his remarks, but some perspective on the bullied reacting as a bully is not that unusual.

    The worst thing about the last five to ten years is the sad realisation that I thought our generation, mid forties, had made great strides in combatting racism. Turns out we turned our backs on it too soon and failed to stamp it out.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    But it does make him look a bit of a hypocrite, especially when it comes to MV.

    How can you ‘forget’ that you held anti-Semitic views.

    I don’t think he is denying or forgetting, he accepts and has apologised. He’d be hypocritical if MV had done the same and he was still calling for him to be sacked. But MV continues to deny.

    binners
    Full Member

    Whichever way you cut it, having listened to his testimony it seems like a lot of people’s attitudes to a lot of things we’re frozen in aspic in about 1977.

    You just can’t use the P word in the 21st century and even begin to think that it’s acceptable

    Also: the word ‘banter’ should be fired into the ****ing sun, because it seems like every racist, homophobic, misogynistic ****-wit seems to consider it their ‘get out of jail free’ card

    It’s not ‘banter’. You’re just a ****! But me calling you a **** is just ‘bantz’, right?

    pk13
    Full Member

    Again olny because he got caught.
    It’s the culture at the club here thats at blame every player that took part or never stopped the “bantz” is accountable. It was well know hence the 2 reports on it.

    pk13
    Full Member

    Edit forum ..https://mobile.twitter.com/ejrainfordbrent

    Superficial
    Free Member

    Anyone who thinks a tweet from a decade ago invalidates his very believable testimony is wilfully fooling themselves.

    Rafiq isn’t on trial here. He might be a good guy, he might be a terrible person, it doesn’t matter. Calling him a hypocrite is an irrelevant ad hominem designed to discredit his evidence. Unfortunately people are lapping it up. People are morons.

    andylc
    Free Member

    I got stopped for a minor traffic infringement a while back. Genuine mistake in a hire van and confusing lanes at a junction. Policeman gave us a bit of a lecture about taking care and that he would let us off this time. Then he drove off through a no entry sign and drove the wrong way up a short one way street, presumably to cut off a roundabout but legal way to get back to the main road.
    I accepted that I was wrong but thought he was a bit of a dick for doing that.
    Assuming it’s all true then I feel somewhat similar here. It’s initiated what looks like a massively overdue look at a horrible outdated culture but he doesn’t come out of it looking great himself.

    ton
    Full Member

    it all reminds me of this.

    “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 51 total)

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