Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 64 total)
  • Have we done Richie Rude’s DSQ?
  • Premier Icon dirkpitt74
    Full Member

    Not a huge Rude fan after the ‘water bottle incident’ but this seems a bit harsh:

    Richie Rude disqualified from EWS Tweed Valley

    It’s not like Rude or Slawomir Lukasik made copious amounts of time from missing a gate on a taped section?

    I would have thought a 5 or 10 second time penalty would have been better?

    We’ve been robbed of a final round showdown between two amazingly close riders who’ve been battling all season.

    Thoughts?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Rules is rules. You have to draw a line somewhere.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Full Member

    In the early days of EWS there was a lot of “line cutting” cheating going on, the rules were brought in to stop that, they have been in place for years now, are the same for everyone and a top level rider would know exactly what the punishment is. You have to stay within the course boundaries to win/complete the race.

    There is perhaps an argument for the rules to be relaxed a little, but still should be something like a 2 min penalty not just 5 secs. It should be that if you leave the course you go back to the exit point,, and the penalty should be sufficient to stop you just joining at a later point.

    Premier Icon poah
    Free Member

    Every other rider managed not to “cheat”. I hear the French want to give him a passport.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Full Member

    everyone bar 2 riders managed to stay within the track limits. some on PB are really frothing about it.

    Rules are clear

    Premier Icon dirkpitt74
    Full Member

    I agree with ‘rules is rules’ but on that section with wide taped grass he can’t have made much time up by going the wrong side of the gate?

    It’s not like he got creative and straight lined a load of switchbacks.

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    The rule book is very clear on what’s a DQ and what’s a timed penalty. Its the same for everyone competing. If it spoils the end of the season for the spectators then the riders concerned have to live with that.
    We had a 5 min penalty in Italy a couple of years ago for a silly mistake but you live, learn and get on with it.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Full Member

    he can’t have made much time up by going the wrong side of the gate?

    Probably not, but if you watch the footage where you can hear Ed Masters comment, Rude was coming in way too quick and had he taken the proper line he may have slid out. It’s not just about time saving. Sections are often taped in because they’re tricky. He took an easier line and reduced his risk of crashing.

    It was either a total brain fart or he’s just monumentally thick and thought it was ok to take that line.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I’m of the rules is rules club.

    Briefing was clear, other riders all managed it.

    Tough.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Full Member

    Looks a bit like skiing to me. Miss a gate and you’re out.

    Premier Icon walleater
    Free Member

    Yep, rules are rules, and the video footage makes it pretty obvious that he cut the course and benefited from it. I don’t know why people are losing their poo over this.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    I’m with rules is rules, and I’m not sure how you judge a time penalty for that other than making it so massive that he’s out of contention anyway. It’s a bloody shame for the overall racing but sometimes things are just a shame.

    But, equally, I don’t think it’s the smartest way to tape it. And yes there was a clarification issued but that arguably shows that there was grounds for confusion- maybe only 2 riders got dq’d for doing it on the day but it looks like others were thinking it. About 10 foot of tape would have been better than a group chat and the suggestion is that the gate before it was fully taped. So I hope they take that onboard

    (the “team manager” chat made me wonder how well that works for people with less support, too. Like,I know it’s not the same as it was in 2014 but Greg Callaghan’s manager and crew for that, was his dad in a campervan, he was 8th…)

    (also I know it’s not the same as it was in 2014, but, a few people commented “only 2 people did it”. Really only 2 people got DQ’d, that’s not the same- they may not have taken the same approach to people who’re out of contention. I turned myself in for a dq offence and got told “as long as you’re not interfering with the results it’s fine”. Luckily MC was there and could vouch for me definitely not interfering with the results)

    Premier Icon muggomagic
    Full Member

    It’s a shame that we didn’t get the big battle to win the overall that we’d been expecting but if it’s the rules, they can’t change that at the last race just because it’s a title contender. I thought Richie took it really well actually.
    I’m stoked for Jack and I’m still not sure how he was in the lead coming into that last race after the wheel, the food poisoning and the dislocated shoulder. Looking forward to the next vlog.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    Kudos to Matt Stuttard for speaking up.

    I bet a lot more of the pros are angry at Rude as well, but it’s probably awkward for them to say.

    The officials had no choice as it wasn’t a purely accidental cut (as in crashing off the course and losing time in the process), but could easily have been deliberate cheating (and probably was IMO).

    Rude was coming in way too quick

    Yep, and it looked like he fully intended to take that line. Possibly a bad split-second decision when the red mist had descended, but still no wriggle room in the rules for a time penalty instead of a DQ, as I read them.

    Premier Icon tenacious_doug
    Free Member

    Also in the rules are rules club, and the evidence certainly seems to have been the situation was made clear beforehand.

    It’s not about how much time was saved but how much risk was reduced with that line, I spectated at the offending corner for quite a while on Saturday and it was very slick and everyone was on the edge of traction with a few sliding out completely, Richie may have crashed at that speed on the actual line, in which case he might have saved himself a good 15-20 seconds by going wide.

    Premier Icon munrobiker
    Free Member

    If the EWS had reviewed the UCI’s disqualification and come back with a time penalty, how happy would other racers be that Rude got the rules bent for him after the fact? Given the EWS already relaxed their “any failed tests and you’re out of the EWS for life” rule for Rude as the first publicly announced failed test I think another relaxation of policy for him would cheese the other racers off a lot.

    Those are the rules, stay between the gates. Apparently it was also announced in the rider briefing before the race. No one else did it. Disqualification is the only option available.

    Premier Icon donald
    Free Member

    Looks a bit like skiing to me. Miss a gate and you’re out.

    Or you walk back up and actually go through the gate

    Premier Icon BruceWee
    Full Member

    Or you walk back up and actually go through the gate

    Yep, I’m not sure what the issue is. It’s the exact same as DH racing.

    Only two riders were confused by it so I don’t see that they’ve got much to complain about.

    Premier Icon pothead
    Free Member

    The first 2 gates Rude missed probably didn’t save much time but as stated he took a line with more grip by doing so, he also cut a 3rd gate after the corner on the vid which would have saved a good few seconds. I initially said a time penalty for each missed gate would be a fair sanction but in hindsight the dq was justified, his teammates both managed to work out where the course was

    Premier Icon andyrm
    Free Member

    Another one to agree this was the right call. Supposing Richie had just had a time penalty applied and for some reason Jack DNF’d on the Sunday, a cheater would have won the EWS overall by default despite a penalty.

    The other consideration is the sport needs to set out clear parameters – you can’t have talk of ‘blind eyes’ being turned to cheating. Look at how long the noise about alleged doping by Karim Amour went on for, after nothing seemed to be done.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    Another one to agree this was the right call. Supposing Richie had just had a time penalty applied and for some reason Jack DNF’d on the Sunday, a cheater would have won the EWS overall by default despite a penalty.

    Yeah there’s a lot of yanks bleating about this now, but imagine the outcry if they’d bent the rules to accommodate Rude – even if Moir had still won it would have looked dodgy AF.

    Absolutely the right decision and it’s strengthened the reputation of the series IMO.

    Premier Icon sharkattack
    Full Member

    Look at how long the noise about alleged doping by Karim Amour went on for, after nothing seemed to be done.

    You mean Karim Amour, the winner of the masters category?

    Premier Icon reggiegasket
    Free Member

    You’re all discussing the rules.

    My reaction is, what an idiot. He threw away a whole season with a brain fart of epic proportions.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    You’re all discussing the rules.

    My reaction is, what an idiot. He threw away a whole season with a brain fart of epic proportions.

    Well, if it were any other rider (apart from Karim Amour obvs) I think the discussion would be more along those lines.

    But this ain’t his first rodeo, so to speak.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    My reaction is, what an idiot. He threw away a whole season with a brain fart of epic proportions.

    True, but some of the objections were around this rule and so that was what some were trying to question it seems.

    He has previous form I believe on a few things like this – as does IIRC a few others like Maes.

    IMO it isn’t brain fart time – he came in way faster having already chosen that inside line, hoping to get away with it.

    Premier Icon Rickos
    Free Member

    He knew what he was doing. Watch any headcam footage and it’s obvious where the course went, so why would he do that? Just stupid, especially as they’d have practiced the course too. Defo DQ for all the reasons above.

    Premier Icon enigmas
    Free Member

    I think it was 100% deliberate and deserves a penalty. He obviously aimed for that line and it was directly stated in the riders briefing that it was out of bounds.

    Also it wasn’t just a second or two saved but also dramatically reduced the chances of binning it on a sketchy corner.

    IMO a DQ is harsh, maybe a 30-60 second penalty, effectively the time lost if he’d have slid out on the actual line.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    IMO a DQ is harsh, maybe a 30-60 second penalty, effectively the time lost if he’d have slid out on the actual line.

    As above, it then looks shitty if Moir DNFs and Richie wins the overall.

    If it looks like blatant cheating then a DQ is appropriate IMO.

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    Any rider in the EWS should/would read the rule book before they compete and every year after to ensure they know of any updates.

    Its not that long a read and is easy to understand. The bit about course cutting was in it way back in 2013

    Course cutting – Taking short cuts on course in order to gain an advantage can both damage the environment and brings the sport and spirit of enduro mountain biking racing into disrepute. Therefore, any rider trying to save time by choosing a line that lies outside of the marked course will be disqualified.

    DQ was the only outcome as any timed penalty could have had an effect on any of the other riders.

    It also sets the standard for all the future events. Maybe its what was needed to stop the French lines that goes on away from the camera.

    Premier Icon chrismac
    Full Member

    I’m pleased he got disqualified as he cheated and there is no way it wasn’t deliberate. It is funny watching all the Americans on pb getting all worked up about how unfair it is that the rules were applied to an American

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    Only he will know if it was deliberate or a mistake. That’s why the rules have to be applied as written. It removes any discretion and its fair for all.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Full Member

    I wonder what he does in the woods when there’s no camera or spectators…

    Premier Icon BruceWee
    Full Member

    I wonder what he does in the woods when there’s no camera or spectators…

    That’s when he ‘accidentally’ takes a swig from the wrong water bottle.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Free Member

    I think it was 100% deliberate and deserves a penalty. He obviously aimed for that line and it was directly stated in the riders briefing that it was out of bounds.

    Also it wasn’t just a second or two saved but also dramatically reduced the chances of binning it on a sketchy corner.

    IMO a DQ is harsh, maybe a 30-60 second penalty, effectively the time lost if he’d have slid out on the actual line.

    Was chatting to Raphaela Richter for a while on Saturday evening, I was previously unaware Richie Rude had cut the course (and that he wasn’t the only one) but watching the footage it looked very much deliberate and premeditated. She showed me some of the Whatsapp group messages from other pro riders and team managers, the consensus seemed the same that he was deliberately trying to gain an advantage and needed penalising, but that most thought the DQ was actually a little harsh. Mostly everybody just seemed gobsmacked that he’d done it! 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Personally, any deliberate line cutting in a race, you need a serious word with yourself. I think a DQ is perhaps a little harsh, but a very significant time penalty for every missed gate (there was more than one) would at least not have robbed the crowds of getting to see him race and try and claw back his time on the Sunday… Hate to say it, but Richie Rude (amongst 2 or 3 others) is a real crowd puller! He only has himself to blame for being an idiot and cutting the corner, but would have still been nice to see him race on Sunday even if it was with a 1min time penalty… But I do understand the reasons behind the DQ though!

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Free Member

    Was a real shame not to have seen a final round fight out.

    Could another option have been to get a DNF for the Pro stage and be allowed to continue for the rest of the race at least?

    Also disappointing lack of interviews on the EWS footage from this round. Would have been good to have had some more riders comments (not just on the DSQ).

    Premier Icon BearBack
    Free Member

    Does the pron stage not count toward total race time? I didn’t assume it was like the xcc as “optional” before the xco but then beyond Jesse Melamed’s videos I’ve not really followed the EWS.

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Free Member

    Yes, the Pro stage counts. But if Rude skipped it and then Moir crashed out in one of the next day’s stages he could still have won.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    the pron stage

    Now there’s an interesting proposition.

    They’d have to line the course with hedges, I presume.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    the pron stage

    Now there’s an interesting proposition.

    They’d have to line the course with hedges, I presume.

    You see I don’t think it would add much, it would just be fluff really.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Free Member

    I think it could add a bit of Razzle to the events, it’d be a veritable Fiesta of enduro.

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