Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 51 total)
  • Have we done a Cannondale Frame Warranty Thread Recently ?
  • Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    Well a few years ago, i bought a Cannonale Flash F29 alloy framed bike. Always fancied a lefty fork. Was a nice bike to ride and upgraded from Sram to XT groupset , as didnt get on with it. Well I had 2 years out from a leg injury, so the bike ( and the fleet of bikes) stayed getting dusty.
    So, this year, Boris says ride your bikes during the furlough period I had off work. I had to get out again. Poundage was increasing and fitness , all but gone. Mojo was rekindled, Hurrah !!
    So, out on the F29 and thoroughly enjoying the rides XC across the local byways, bridleways,Ridgeway and Greenham Common, as thats what I do. When after a summers ride, I look down and notice a crack on the top tube to seat tube area.

    A few choice words were said and I contacted the original supplier and they said to send some photos of the frame, serial number, seat post and complete bike. Which was duly done. There was ‘discussions’ from the UK distributor regarding the Thomson layback seatpost fitted, which I advised on being longer in the arms than legs and only making 20mm difference. Stems arent that common being 1 1/2 diameter to change and happy with the steering and didnt need it slower. So,eventually , after arguing this and seatpost length in the frame ( a good 6 inches) they sent a replacement frame. Awesome and was very happy to build this back up. Covid meant all local bike shops were closed and the point of purchase is 140 miles of ‘non essential journey’ away. I am very confident with the spanners , so not an issue.
    So, new frame tape done, bike rebuilt and off we go again. Enjoying the freedom of no gnar and learning about local history as I ride has been very educational.
    So, 8 weeks later , I decided ( not the the first time) to give the bike a clean. Low and behold, I find a crack again in the same area, but now on the side of the top tube. This time round, I have been using the original Cannondale seatpost, which made it a little short but I accepted this.

    So, with this failure , I then contacted the bike supplier,who then contacted the importer regarding this frame.
    By looking into the seat tube, Cannnondale had drilled a great big hole in the seat tube, in line with the top tube. Both holes are very roughly finished and seem to be the start of the cracks to then travel around the seat tube. This is visible in the first frame, as I had to show it was destroyed for release of the replacement. I still have this section here. The second frame, I took the forks out and slid a mini camera in there to confirm and you can feel the crack with your finger nail down the seat tube.
    So, importer now wont replace the frame. They will offer me a replacement frame for a not particularly cheap price. This frame wont fit the components of the original frame. So, not only a cost to buy the frame, but converting to 1 x whatever and rear hub change.
    I have re-biked now as knew this was going to be along drawn out situation.
    So, the second frame is coming back to me this week, as I have requested that they replace the frame or return.
    So do I ?
    1/ Accept Cannondale frames are tosh and move on and never cross their palms again ?
    2/ Put forward a claim for not being fit for purpose and go legal ?
    3/ Just go ride the Ibis I now have and know its a better frame ?
    4/ Stroke my cat ( no kittens here) and just hang the frame up and use as fishing weights as when needed.

    Just putting this out there to ask to be honest. I think that 8 weeks on a frame is not particularly amazing in longevity . I am 6 stone inside weight limits , frame is correct in sizing, More than the minimum seat post is in the frame as marked on the post. So was expecting better. Why the hell they drilled a sodding big hole ( approx 18mm) in a 27.2mm seat tube I have no idea. Seems to have been gnawed out as well.
    Any thoughts amongst the collective ?

    hopefiendboy
    Full Member

    Hmmm tough one. I’d be asking if there was a more up to date or tougher fram that they could supply instead of that one. As it doesn’t seem to be fit for purpose I’m sure this would be reasonable. With regard to them supplying you with a new frame with compatibility issues you may just have to suck this up- although other manufacturers would have looked after you better- SPecialized for example. I assume both frames have broken within the first frames’ warranty period?

    leegee
    Full Member

    I had a 2012 Flash aluminium frame crack the same as your first picture after about 18 months use. Cycle sports said it was down to seat post insertion which was tosh, there’s a manufacturing issue here. I’d say you have a legit warranty claim and they should be supplying a new frame FOC.

    mashr
    Full Member

    although other manufacturers would have looked after you better- SPecialized for example

    Pretty certain there have been threads about warranty Specializeds needing a load of new kit too

    r8jimbob88
    Free Member

    I know someone that had one crack in the same place too. How many years old is the frame? A cannondale dealer once told me that CSG (UK Distributer) normally look after you for up to 7 years unless there’s signs of misuse.

    That being said, I forked out over £500 for a new Scalpel Si frame this year after the mech hanger bolt failed and subsequently messed up the rear triangle. Unfortunately the said it was my fault which was annoying…. mech hangers don’t normally fail when riding up hill away from any rocks etc

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    Thanks for the responses. There does seem to be a few F29 frames with the same failures on the net with photos, which helps my case should I decide to pursue further. The purchase date is under 6 yrs old, which runs out the middle of January , hence why I have requested they make a decision on replace or return last week as they have had it 2 months now. I can potentially look at unfit for purpose if done before January. The first frame should have lasted longer, but for second one is laughable to its failure. I believe they will claim seat post issues as an excuse for poor manufacture and design. The seat post in the frame always seemed to be a little more flexible than it is on all the other frames I have and suspect that flexing may have been caused by the ropey hole they have drilled. I will see about a photo of the cut up frame to show this shortly.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Did you ever wonder how Cannondale got the nickname of Crack n Fail?

    Wonder no more.

    I would never ever touch Cannondale after the breakages and shite warranty service I’ve seen from them over the years. Push them all the way on it, they’ll know full well it’s a manufacturing/design fault.

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    So this is from inside the cut off top tube , which shows the crack starting from the hole drilled in the seat tube. Crack starts at 12 oclock and goes round to the left and the other crack at 3 oclock which starts to go round to the right. The dont meet, but photos off the net show that they will if left any longer.

    Picture showing the inside of the top tube crack. This shows it wasnt cracked on the weld on the first frame , but maybe something to do with lack of heat treatment or the flex designs from manufacture as a guess ?

    Excuse the shonky seat stays welding ………. It hasnt failed…….

    mick_r
    Full Member

    I always wondered how they made that junction – looks like seat stays are just butt welded to the end face of the top tube. Are they partially mitred to the seat tube or just a straight cut and fill all the gaps with weld?

    With steel frames I tend to find the length of seat tube stub above the tt is critical – too long and they break where your first one did.

    The second failure in such a short time frame and odd place is surely a defect – how can they defend that?

    damascus
    Free Member

    Interesting about the seatpost not being the original.

    First thing we all do is replace the seatpost with a dropper Post. Some like the command have a lay back, others don’t. Are they saying we can’t use a dropper Post in a cracknfail frame?

    Seems ridiculous to me.

    What’s the official warranty on your original purchase?

    jameso
    Full Member

    RE the layback post bit, that’s dubious (I’m trying to be diplomatic here). There’s an EN frame fatigue test that loads the seat tube with 1200N via a post that has an effective layback of 70mm (ie think weight acting on saddle or overall lever, not just actual post layback), with the post at either 250mm or max recommended height for the frame. Plus, the difference 15mm of layback makes is little compared to rider weight, body mass distribution or other position variations.

    (EN14766, 4.8.6, Frame fatigue with vertical forces – though there is an exemption clause for certain seat cluster dimensions it’s wise to do the test whether exempt of not)

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    They made an issue on the Thomson post but still replaced the frame. If this was an issue they would have rejected it. As for fitting a dropper , I would suspect it may bean issue with changing anything as an ‘upgrade’ and a get out clause. Ironically the second frame failed with the Cannondale post refitted, so if anything made the situation of failure a lot quicker.
    Frame warranty is a ‘lifetime warranty’ but that doesnt mean its until I pop off this planet. It leaves it wide open as to how long they expect a frame should last in the real world. I am an XC jeyboy, so the only time the wheels leave the ground is when it is in the stand for maintenance.
    Its the first frame I have ever broken , errr and second in 30 years of MTBing. I had an issue with a Spesh frame creaking 15yrs ago and Spesh were awesome and swapped out without quibble.
    As for the post height, the post was in the frame with about 2 inches before it reached the minimum marker. The Thomson post was only 5mm from hitting the bottle cage bosses. So it couldnt go in much further.
    As to if I go legal on this, small claims seem to ask for the retailer , rather than the distributor. The retailer has been great , but held back by the distributor. Do I put the claim in against the retailer or the distributor. Wonder if anyone has done this before?

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    As to if I go legal on this, small claims seem to ask for the retailer , rather than the distributor. The retailer has been great , but held back by the distributor. Do I put the claim in against the retailer or the distributor. Wonder if anyone has done this before?

    Your contract is with the retailer.
    The retailer’s contract is with the distributor.

    Ultimately, the shop has to fix the problem (assuming of course it is found to be Warranty) and they then claim their costs back from Cannondale. Obviously if it’s a case of replacing the frame, it’s up to the distributor to supply the shop with a replacement frame which is where the delays and arguments can come in if the shop say it’s warranty and the distributor wants more evidence.

    endoverend
    Full Member

    I read this as the importer is supposing that the rider has not had the correct seat post insertion into the frame and is trying to blame the rider. Most Thompson mtb seatposts are of the 400mm length variety so unless you have a particularly high saddle height, I would expect there to be enough insertion. But…and it’s a big but…these frame designs have a very low top tube and a long seat tube extension above the top tube – you need to ignore any minimum insertion marks on the seatpost and ensure that the base of seatpost extends within the seatube past the level of where the top tube meets the seattube.

    Ideally you want even more seat post insertion than that with this frame design (edit: which it sounds like you have from last post), there is engineered flex that effectively allows the entire seatube to flex to absorb bumps. It’s something that is clearly evident on the carbon version, where you can see this flex just by pushing down on the saddle. On the carbon version there are lots of documented cases of the seatubes cracking caused by the combination of seatpost and seatube flexing – on my carbon F29 I was aware of that and run the longest seat post possible, with the base of the seapost about 4 inches below the centreline of the top tube or about 6 inches of actual insertion from the collar.

    If you can show the importer a picture of the seatpost you are running and the amount of insertion achieved at your saddle height- assuming it is safely below the top tube junction – then I would politely suggest to them that they owe you a new frame as per the warranty. Sell it when you get it and buy something else.

    sillyoldman
    Full Member

    Thomson layback posts don’t have an unusual amount of offset – they just mimic the geometry of traditional 1-bolt clamp micro adjust seatposts. Interestingly, Cannondale have often specced the hideous FSA seat posts with colossal offsets – way bigger than Thomson laybacks.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    if its within the warranty i would be wanting a new frame or very good justification not to.

    Ive stopped being reasonable with people that just say no. Small claims court if they dont

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    The importer has my seat post with a taped marker to show how deep into the frame it goes plus my saddle, so that is already done. They do have quite a sloped top tube to accommodate the lefty fork in the head tube.
    I have no plan on using this frame , but to recoup some of the outlay I have with re framing the bike into the Ibis DV9. Which included using the lefty fork and as much of the bike components as I could. Its now done 10 times more mileage than the second frame and is still in one piece. At the time I had a single speed Stooge and an all mountain Jekyll for my lock down XC duties, so needed to get an xc bike up and running in a sensible time frame while the sun was out , anyway.
    If I have to use the bike shop for the claim ,then so be it. I suspect lots of riders have been fobbed off on this situation in the past. A mate had issues with a carbon Fsi and it continually creaked and they told him no . He gave up on it too easily.
    If they offered the frame that had compatibility with components as free issue, then we wouldn’t be here now.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Frame warranty is a ‘lifetime warranty’ but that doesnt mean its until I pop off this planet. It leaves it wide open as to how long they expect a frame should last in the real world.

    That’s it, it’s saying things won’t fail due to manufacturing or material flaws within the normal expected lifespan of a product. So a straight fatigue fail after 8 years of good use isn’t really a warranty claim as it’ll happen at some point. 2 years may be OK for a DH bike, you might expect longer terms for an XC or city bike and if the lifespan is impacted by a really light design that should be made fairly clear.

    endoverend
    Full Member

    A mate had issues with a carbon Fsi and it continually creaked and they told him no .

    This is a designed in feature of the BB30 and SiSl2 crank design where they have incorporated as many metal to metal (pseudo interference fit) interfaces as possible, it saves weight in the integrated system as you don’t need to fit a bell to warn pedestrians of your approach – I tend to wear headphones riding mine to combat the incessant quacking.

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    BB30 is pish. I fitted an XT chainset and adaptors to stop the incessant din and sound less like a ten quid bike.
    Jameso,yes 8 years would be awesome……….. but 8 weeks ? I am well within the weight limit set for the frame and ride sensibly. Never crashed. I guess I should try harder and then break things and say it was my fault.
    I do have breakages outside the home on my house insurance, but if they took the bike, I would loose the lefty ……… And pay excess and premium increases the next few years.

    endoverend
    Full Member

    I’d be wary of basing decisions around salvaging the Lefty, they’re not exactly renown for longevity themselves. Mines been off to the menders 10 times in a similar period, and had replacement parts worth more then the forks value in its lifespan- still going, just.. it is good though when it works.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    crazy-legs

    Your contract is with the retailer.
    The retailer’s contract is with the distributor.

    The statutory warranty is with the retailer, but the extended/”lifetime” ones are at manufacturer’s discretion.

    gray
    Full Member

    I think, unfortunately, that the figure of 8 weeks is only relevant to the question of whether a flaw was present at manufacture rather than developed over a lengthy period of misuse. Your warranty will start from when you bought the first one.

    Although it sucks, I think you’re likely to be out of luck on this one. You say that you’ve inserted the post far enough in, but you may struggle to prove it. (I believe you, but I’m not a warranty department that processes all kinds of piss take claims every day, so I’m not cynical!)

    sillysilly
    Full Member

    Get Hambini on it, much more fun than going legal 😂

    In all seriousness – any bike co that tried to blame the use of a Thomson layback seat post on their frame cracking are total jokers. They must have sold millions and it’s hardly an extreme design. Next they will be telling you not to ride your bike on a Tuesday in over 20 degree heat.

    Hope the Ibis is good.

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    Endoverend, the lefty is amazing when it works. Hopefully not throwing this away but my lefty hasnt missed a beat so far. Just gave it an oil change when I swopped frames for the first time. Leftit alone. I dont use this bike in the winter , which keeps it fresh , so as it is 6 months of the year its hung up and the singlespeed takes over duties.
    Had thought about Hambini. I mean he hates Dales for BB30’s anyway 🙂
    Gray, I think that Cannondale have a design flaw in the frame. These cracks propagate from this hole roughly drilled in the seat tube. Utlilising a 27.2mm seatpost isnt the best idea either if the frame is flexy. Saying that , my Scandal frame is still going strong for a commuter after 10 years and ridden 5 days a week.Hang on,that hasnt got a hole in the seat tube 40mm from the top !
    Thanks for everyone’s input, it is appreciated. I do have about 10 items/ info of broken frames in the same area to use in the case so far, so input from others showing how claims are thrown out by them and dealt with helps.

    gray
    Full Member

    I totally agree, could well be a design flaw, but (again playing Cannondale’s advocate), if you’ve had a working frame for several years then they’d probably say “lightweight frame, lasted many years, not covered by warranty or statutory consumer rights”. The fact that you’ve actually not used it much (especially this replacement one) is probably neither here nor there to them.

    I think they should recognise that it’s a crappy design and sort it out one way or another, but if they deducted a fair amount for the length of time you’ve had it, that wouldn’t leave much…

    I hope that they’ll do the decent thing, I just fear that they have ample legal wriggle room to choose not to. Best of luck regardless!

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    Thanks Gray. Just had TNT deliver the frame back. At the end of the day , although Cannondale are pretty inventive in certain ways with Lefty forks, seems the fundamentals are flawed in regards to basic frame design. It has drawn an end to my thinking of ever buying another Cannondale and suspect that any highlighting of fundamental flaws and support from the importer may make others to potentially rethink their future purchases or even accept the risk of the support that seems to be missing.

    fatmax
    Full Member

    No consolation or use, but my Dale road bike (2003) broke in exactly the same place with almost identical thin cracks…so its a reoccurring issue for them. Which in itself is pretty shoddy!

    jameso
    Full Member

    Jameso,yes 8 years would be awesome……….. but 8 weeks ?

    Sure – I was talking generally RE ‘lifetime warranty’.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    I guess we now know what Cannondale consider”lifetime”, within 8 weeks.

    damascus
    Free Member

    That’s it, it’s saying things won’t fail due to manufacturing or material flaws within the normal expected lifespan of a product. So a straight fatigue fail after 8 years of good use isn’t really a warranty claim as it’ll happen at some point. 2 years may be OK for a DH bike, you might expect longer terms for an XC or city bike and if the lifespan is impacted by a really light design that should be made fairly clear.

    So what’s better a lifetime warranty or a 10 year warranty?

    Just seems that they make it up as they go along.

    It saddens me to say it but the best way to deal with anything these days is to paste it all over social media and hash tag them in. They don’t like airing their dirty laundry in public.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Got to say op, seems pretty clear cut here, can’t see anyway you brought that on yourself.

    Cannondale are off my Christmas list!

    Good luck getting it sorted mate.👍

    jaylittle
    Free Member

    Got shut of my cannondale and will never buy another. Great machines when they are working but a pita when they aren’t. Things are often made trickier with cannondale parts such as straight 1.5 steelers and dyad shocks if that’s still even a thing.
    I really hope you get sorted but from my experiences I’m not very positive.

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    Lucky for Cannondale , i dont do social media , other than a couple of forums , for other hobbies as well. I suspect it wouldnt make a jot of difference after reading things on Pinkbike on similar situations regarding frame issues. If I had made a product which showed failure within a period of warranty , I would take astep back and work out why it failed, redesign it and re -manufacture. The second frame was manufactured 4 years after the first frame and yet shows the same failure point. So, nothing learnt there.
    If they did wish to appear here, they would say they haven’t had any failures to warrant anything to be changed. Its a scapegoat thing ,because imagine the cost implication for saying they do, for all those riders to say ‘I’ve got a broken one those in the garage which you refused to replace’
    Things do break, its a made mechanical item. I accept that, as an engineer myself and face this in my work everyday.
    I may ask a mate , who has a customer who does metal analysis about the frame material. He did my brake discs after a Spain trip out of interest after I destroyed them on one week away from new 🙂

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    So, I am going to start scribbling ( I can do it on line but printed the claim form off so, i can compose my statements) my claim for the replacement frame , which was offered at a cost and the legal costs involved. Small change in the grand scheme of things, but its the correct approach, even if its for sake of all others who have been palmed off with being their fault.
    I even found a new photo of another frame with the same failure, which I have a good few now and will add this to my paperwork as evidence of the frames not being fit for their design.
    Lets see where this goes 🙂

    breadcrumb
    Full Member

    As a boy I used to lust after a Cannondale. But I’ve read too many horror stories about them now so it’s a brand I can never see me owning.

    longmover
    Full Member

    Got shut of my cannondale and will never buy another. Great machines when they are working but a pita when they aren’t. Things are often made trickier with cannondale parts such as straight 1.5 steelers and dyad shocks if that’s still even a thing

    Don’t forget bearing races made of cheese!

    endomick
    Free Member

    I always find a detailed hand written letter along with relevant forms and photos to the head honcho gets the best results.
    I cant see them fobbing you off like the distributor did.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    At least they have looked at the frame. Kona and STW’s favourite former retailer wouldn’t accept mine to look at

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    I’ve got one of these frames, bought 2nd hand, saw the amount of flex in the seat stays & presumed it would fail at some point – think I’d better keep a closer eye on it 😬

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