Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 76 total)
  • Has there been a worse time to buy an EV?
  • geordiemick00
    Free Member

    I run a car allowance instead of company car and our policy states car must be no older than 4 years old and mine has just had it’s sixth birthday. It’s a perfectly reliable Mercedes E class that’s been faultless and maintained without expense, but I’m starting to get a bit of a nudge from work.

    So, after looking at lots of cars that are now £10k more expensive than they were 2 years ago when new, I thought I’d test drive a Polestar 2 and placed an initial order as there’s a few kicking round.

    THEN, I start to do the maths of calculating how much per mile it will cost to run, as I’m paid the advisory fuel rates for travelling (after monthly car allowance) and with the EV it’s 5p per mile, the Mercedes is 16p per mile.

    First issue I’ve had is Polestar don’t offer charger unit for home, so I’m a grand down. My electricity supplier (Scottish Power) fitted a PAYG meter to my property before I moved in and finally after 2 years of hassle, it was swapped to a smart meter last month, but still on a PAYG tariff, which means I’m illegible for a quote for EV tariff’s and have to commit to monthly direct debit account before they will quote me.

    Spoke to Octopus energy who do a tariff for 5p Kwh but can only do 35 hours a week between 12-5am, so I need a smart charger to start the charging within these hours. No commitment to keep the rates low with the price cap changes etc

    Then I rang my insurers and they gave me a quote which I thought hadn’t included my 8 years NCD.

    This is turning out to be a right carry on and buying an EV that needs constant management of it’s capabilities of range that’s equal to a 3.0 diesel German executive car is pushing back towards get another ICE car.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    You’re largely describing a set of circumstances that pertain to you rather than electric cars – looks like its probably a bad time for you to buy an EV. But other peoples circumstances will differ.

    boxxer7
    Free Member

    The next “diesel gate” springs to mind when electric cars come to mind.

    geordiemick00
    Free Member

    The next “diesel gate” springs to mind when electric cars come to mind.

    In what way?

    Sold a misnomer?

    28mpg
    Free Member

    So, after looking at lots of cars that are now £10k more expensive than they were 2 years ago when new,

    That applies to almost every car on the market new and old. Ev and combustion though

    Your company car policy sounds like the perfect application of a vanity plate…..

    finephilly
    Free Member

    yea, leave saving the environment to the private sector, they can fix anything.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    Have you looked at what cars are available on the company car scheme? It may be time to sign up for it.

    argee
    Full Member

    It’s a simple Cost Benefit Analysis, work it out, you have to get something again in 4 years by the sounds of it, so is it worth waiting until 2025/26 to see the benefit of moving to EV, we’re the same, would love to get a new car, but putting it off until we see some more funding/benefits kicking in for EV to make it more appealing.

    28mpg
    Free Member

    yea, leave saving the environment to the private sector, they can fix anything

    Video conferencing has come on leaps and bounds in the last 2 years.

    But that doesn’t build the old boys club like their coffees and beers on your P card.

    geordiemick00
    Free Member

    t’s a simple Cost Benefit Analysis, work it out, you have to get something again in 4 years by the sounds of it, so is it worth waiting until 2025/26 to see the benefit of moving to EV, we’re the same, would love to get a new car, but putting it off until we see some more funding/benefits kicking in for EV to make it more appealing.

    That’s what I’m doing now. If EV’s can continue to enjoy a low Kwh rate to charge at home, it could make sense, but the energy market is too volatile. Even when diesel was £1.50 a litre, i was still getting near 50mpg from the merc and the 16p per mile would just cover it.

    I looked at an A4 Avant, 2.0tdi 163bhp Black Edition earlier, £35k for a two year old one and the VED was £500 a year as the RRP was over £40k. So i have £2k of VED over 4 years, then servicing etc, whereas the Polestar has three years free servicing, no VED and no risk of any out of pocket bills like I have with a 6 year old 90k mileage car.

    28mpg
    Free Member

    So i have £2k of VED over 4 years, then servicing etc, whereas the Polestar has three years free servicing, no VED and no risk of any out of pocket bills

    So what’s the question. Seems like it’s a good fit for you…..

    5lab
    Full Member

    as above, if a company car scheme is available to you and you’re interested in electric, its probably much cheaper to go through it.

    And yes, 25 years ago was a worse time to buy an EV, the only one really around was the GM EV1 and if you bought one of those they took it back off you and crushed it

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    What would happen if you ignored the nudges and just carried on with the reliable car you have?

    We have similar conditions at work. Although they seem to be realising that the more restrictive they make the conditions, the more they get ignored.

    The trap of a car on “the scheme” at our place is that it ties you in for 3 years. If you leave in that time, it’s your lease deal that you have to sort out/be penalised for. It’s like signing on for a number of years in the forces. There’s a bill if you decide to leave the company early!

    Drac
    Full Member

    Yes about 5 years ago or so when more were sub 50 mile range and took hours to charge.

    simon_g
    Full Member

    more funding/benefits kicking in for EV to make it more appealing.

    Like what? Home charge grant is about to go. Plug-in car grant got cut again in December (both amount and the list price it can apply to) and will likely be phased out entirely over the coming years.

    OZEV have a limited pot of money and with sales roughly doubling every year don’t expect them to get any better.

    This particular situation is about the least favourable though, particularly if they only pay advisory rates for fuel. Worth seeing if your company would consider doing company cars, or a salary sacrifice scheme, both of which mean you benefit from the 1% (rising to 2%) BIK.

    geordiemick00
    Free Member

    What would happen if you ignored the nudges and just carried on with the reliable car you have?

    Not sure, I’ve already said to them if they want to fire me because of the age of my car then do so.

    They have a perception that I’m making a killing on old car that is still financed to it’s value, I still have the liability of the finance in the event that I get laid off.

    Companies attitudes to sales people and company cars in the last few years have really shifted. This company had a car sat idle for nearly a year and after that they then brought in car allowances. As usual, everything is always weighted in their favour, they even claim the VAT back on the fuel I buy ffs.

    28mpg
    Free Member

    I assume they have upped your car allowances in line with the costs of <4 year old car costs ?*

    * I can guess the answer.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    What about contacting Ling for some advice?

    airvent
    Free Member

    Why does it have to be an EV (or a diesel)?

    Just lease a petrol car for 3 years until EV prices have came down a bit, you can have some pretty amazing petrol cars for 50k compared to a pretty boring imo polestar.

    geordiemick00
    Free Member

    What about contacting Ling for some advice?

    I’ve asked my brother in law 😉

    Why does it have to be an EV (or a diesel)?

    It doesn’t

    Just lease a petrol car for 3 years until EV prices have came down a bit, you can have some pretty amazing petrol cars for 50k compared to a pretty boring imo polestar.

    Leasing is super expensive as it’s tied to an annual mileage and most want hideous deposits. I’ve stayed away from petrol for last 20 years as economy isn’t great for doing 20k+ a year. Admittedly, they are a lot better these days.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    I’d be fuming if my company wanted me to bin a perfectly decent car at great cost. I do get a car allowance but the only stipulation is that it has to be ‘in good order’ or something*. We don’t even have to use it.

    Seriously though, much as I am a fan of EVs it is early days of mass adoption and there are issues. I paid £400 out of the £700 cost for a smart charger with scheduling and that, and I am on Octopus Go. These are ok for me but I’m not a sales type.

    Re the car prices, demand is high and supply is very limited. They are all way more expensive than 6 months ago when I shopped for mine.

    * and no-one’s ever come round for a car inspection

    BlobOnAStick
    Full Member

    Shouldn’t be a need for a smart charger – use the car to time the charges; it’s what we do even though we have a charger that can be controlled via WiFi etc. it’s proven to be more reliable to program the car.

    Octopus Go tariff is great. We have our dishwasher, washing machine and will have our immersion heater all running between 12:30 and 4:30 (not 12 and 5 BTW) as well as having the car charge.

    RustyNissanPrairie
    Full Member

    I ran my ex-military Defender on the company car allowance – obviously wasn’t stipulation on age/appearance! Thankfully I never had to go anywhere.

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    Could you simply forego the car allowance? That way you wouldn’t be bound by the scheme rules.

    yoshimi
    Full Member

    Octopus Go tariff is great. We have our dishwasher, washing machine and will have our immersion heater all running between 12:30 and 4:30 (not 12 and 5 BTW) as well as having the car charge.

    Do you have any concerns about your appiances malfuntioning / catching fire in the night?

    I used to always run things when I was in bed or at work – but when I got together with my wife, whose job at the time included assesing the aftermath of many house fires, it put me right off.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Did you have bad credit at one point OP with having the pay as you go meter in or was it that you have just moved to a house that was PAYG? I would be in touch with the regulator if its the latter.

    As to charging in the night, the car will come with an App that allows you to set the hours of when it charges so you dont charge outside the cheaper times.

    We are getting an EV vehicle soon, and we worked out it would be cheaper to stay on a normal elec tariff rather than go for car charging tariff.

    I really would be going back to your organisation though and asking 1. What are the eco reasons for swapping cars. 2. Have you got a salary sacrifice scheme as electric EV’s are so expensive to buy privately which is in essence what you are doing

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Where I work we get a car allowance and an equivalently restricted mileage value, luckily no age restriction (nor requirement to actually own a car).

    It’s the first place I’ve worked in +30 years of business travelling (and car allowances) that doesn’t pay the full HMRC ppm rate – tight barstewards, consequently I only drive in their time and organise my trips to suit me.

    BTW you do claim back your tax on the difference between HMRC 45ppm and your company 16ppm don’t you?

    MTT
    Free Member

    Similar position, it made sense from a tax perspective to take an EV than pay tax on a vehicle contribution or higher BIK. This won’t always be the case of course!

    That aside, you’re right, they’re more expensive to run than you’d realise.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    That’s what I’m doing now. If EV’s can continue to enjoy a low Kwh rate to charge at home, it could make sense, but the energy market is too volatile.

    Overnight rates should be less volatile as they’re the big baseload generators like nuclear and there’s a smaller market to sell it into. It’s cheap because it’s not having to account for the spikes in the daytime that push the wholesale (i.e. before the energy company has made any profit, or paid the grid, taxes, etc) price up over 50p/kwh which is driven by the cost of running gas turbines which are paid a staggering amount per kwh to deliver a small portion of the total and drag the average up.

    Even when diesel was £1.50 a litre, i was still getting near 50mpg from the merc and the 16p per mile would just cover it.

    But you’re also paying that much for private use, whereas the EV would be (almost) free to run.

    They have a perception that I’m making a killing on old car that is still financed to it’s value, I still have the liability of the finance in the event that I get laid off.

    After 6 years on the allowance are you not in profit on the Merc? If not could you not use that as an argument with HR that either their allowance is too low or the stipulations on model/age are too onerous?

    chrismac
    Full Member

    Put a private plate on the car and tell them you bought a newer version of the same thing😁

    barrysh1tpeas
    Full Member

    Do you have any concerns about your appiances malfuntioning / catching fire in the night?

    Our dishwasher caught fire. Luckily I was in the kitchen at the time, heard it making some weird noises, opened the door and there were flames in the base! Unplugged it and carried it out to garden quickly! (It was slimline so not too heavy)

    I’d never run anything at night whislt in bed now.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    I’d never run anything at night whislt in bed now.

    Apart from the fridge, the wifi router, phone chargers and a whole load of stuff on standby if your house is anything like ours.

    It’s the first place I’ve worked in +30 years of business travelling (and car allowances) that doesn’t pay the full HMRC ppm rate – tight barstewards

    Mine doesn’t, but then the fuel expenses are meant to only cover fuel, and the allowance for the other costs. Which it can cover easily.

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    I’ve stayed away from petrol for last 20 years as economy isn’t great for doing 20k+ a year.

    With that annual mileage I’d have gone the company car option so I wouldn’t have to worry about tyres, servicing and unexpected breakages etc especially with a car which must be over 100k mileage by now but I guess you have your reasons for going with car allowance. Also with that mileage I would have thought the personal lease costs of a vehicle will be eyewatering.

    Unless your travelling is mostly out and back to home each day I’d be tempted to stick with an ICE vehicle as public charging will take more trip planning, time and frustration than finding a filling station at least for a couple more years until EV charging infrastructure improves. Maybe push back and keep your old Merc another year or two.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Mine doesn’t, but then the fuel expenses are meant to only cover fuel, and the allowance for the other costs. Which it can cover easily.

    You obviously get a big allowance.

    FWIW I was getting £9.5k back in 2008, and 40ppm – now it’s £3.5k and 13ppm.

    And that £3.5k is gross, so net is barely £150pcm – what you buying/running for £150 per month when it can’t be older than 4 years?

    molgrips
    Full Member

    You obviously get a big allowance.

    It’s about £450 pre-tax. That’s enough to make a sizeable contribution to a decent car. It paid for the Passat and most of its insurance, whilst it was on finance, then I trousered the rest after it was paid off (and then spent a load more of it on repairs “lol”). But since it’s my car I can do as many of my own miles as I want in it, and I did do a lot.

    And that £3.5k is gross, so net is barely £150pcm – what you buying/running for £150 per month when it can’t be older than 4 years?

    Yeah that’s a shit deal.

    Re the car yeah I would probably not want to be driving an EV if I had to be running about the country on a deadline. The long trips I’ve done have required a good deal scouting and planning to make sure I had a refill (although my car has a meagre range). A PHEV would be a good option though, you could do your town driving at least on leccy, and if you’re going to a city you can save your leccy for when you get to the city at your destination.

    niceandy
    Free Member

    Have you challenged the 4 year company policy?

    My company does the same, but when I joined I got a concession from my boss because my car, although older than 4 years was very low mileage. They also weren’t going to miss out on hiring me on this policy point.

    After that (3 years ago) nobody checks up anymore, so I just drive whatever age car I want.

    Don’t spend a fortune and go through all the faff on the basis of a company policy that they possibly don’t enforce or care about.

    geordiemick00
    Free Member

    Did you have bad credit at one point OP with having the pay as you go meter in or was it that you have just moved to a house that was PAYG? I would be in touch with the regulator if its the latter.

    No, I’ve just been offered a £50k car on finance. The house I bought was an ex rental and previous tenant had one fitted. It’s taken me nearly 18 months to have it swapped out to a smart meter then I can now swap supplier, it’s been a total nightmare. I had to complain to OFGEM as nobody would touch it.

    BTW you do claim back your tax on the difference between HMRC 45ppm and your company 16ppm don’t you?

    Yes, factored in.

    After 6 years on the allowance are you not in profit on the Merc?

    Only had the Merc a year, but have buyer and it’s enough to pay off finance owing. last company had 7 year policy on company car.

    Have you challenged the 4 year company policy?

    My company does the same, but when I joined I got a concession from my boss because my car, although older than 4 years was very low mileage. They also weren’t going to miss out on hiring me on this policy point.

    They’ve said they’d expect me to change this year as everyone else is in fairly new cars and get the same allowance. I have a good job and don’t plan leaving nor rocking the boat.

    With that annual mileage I’d have gone the company car option so I wouldn’t have to worry about tyres, servicing and unexpected breakages etc especially with a car which must be over 100k mileage by now but I guess you have your reasons for going with car allowance. Also with that mileage I would have thought the personal lease costs of a vehicle will be eyewatering.

    No company car option. Allowance only, they moved away from cars years ago as everyone wanted allowances. I’d prefer a company car and just suffer the tax, but the last three jobs I’ve had have all been allowances.

    You obviously get a big allowance.

    FWIW I was getting £9.5k back in 2008, and 40ppm – now it’s £3.5k and 13ppm.

    And that £3.5k is gross, so net is barely £150pcm – what you buying/running for £150 per month when it can’t be older than 4 years?

    £650pcm + the AFR rates which are 16ppm Derv or 5ppm, then claim the tax back on the difference at year end.

    Don’t spend a fortune and go through all the faff on the basis of a company policy that they possibly don’t enforce or care about.

    I work for a small company with flat management, it was a condition of my employment.

    airvent
    Free Member

    the AFR rates which are 16ppm Derv

    Glad you clarified, I thought for a moment you might be using red diesel.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    SP can normally switch a smart meter from ppm to credit and back remotely.

    Ask them to do it and complain if they don’t.

    28mpg
    Free Member

    16ppm Derv or 5ppm, then claim the tax back on the difference at year end.

    Surely at 5 ppm on an electric car you’ll be getting a tax bill.

    Tax man rate is 4 pence.

    Your company are pretty stingy when it comes to expecting you to pay to run (£50k)a car for them.

    Tbh their rates are penalising you for having running an EV on their behalf.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 76 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Thanks for popping by - why not stay a while?IT'S FREE

Sign up as a Singletrack Member and you can leave comments on stories, use the classified ads, and post in our forums, do quizzes and more.

Join us, join in, it’s free, and fun.