Wanting a slack do it all hardtail, slacker the better really. My main concern now is are steel hardtails too heavy since that new regulation came in and have they lost that ‘zippieness’ because of it? And if so, would it be better to look for a lighter aluminium alternative despite the harshness? Been looking at the new cotic soul but slacker would be better or even the stanton switchback looks like good steel and brilliant geometry for me but do they lose that nice steel feel since being beefed up too much?

I would have gone for steel, as Aluminium would be way too hard. But with plus sized tyres perhaps that’s an option worth considering.

Just to make your choice more confusing 🙂

It’s a long time since Alu frames ran harsh. I have one it’s far from harsh.

I went from a Slackline 852 (27.2mm seat tube, 1 1/8th head tube) to a Swhitchback MkI.

I loved the Switchback but it had lost a degree of the steel feel. The Slackline felt like a revelation after by BFe in terms of that ‘steel feel’. Pink Bike felt that the Slakline lost some feel too once it was updated for droppper posts and tapered steerers.

With that said, my Switchback was much less harsh than ali hardtails I’ve had in the past (Chameleon, Sub Zero etc). It wasn’t that heavy either, even without a super posh build. Looked lovely too.

What about something like the upcoming, updated Slackline; 27.5 wheels, slightly less aggro geo and much smaller stays. That should be a lovely feeling bike. They look lovely in the flesh too having seen a pre-production one.

I have a 2016 Crush that on looks alone should be harsh, but it’s comfier than the gas pipe 456 it replaced 🙂

Tyre pressure probably makes more difference than frame material I reckon 🙂

I don’t think its as clear cut these days as to how a bike will feel because of its material. You’l get stiff and compliant versions of both and with the trend for bigger and bigger tyres, different wheel sizes and rim materials etc there are too many variables to just say a steel frame will be such and such.

Back in the day I think Alu frames were just bigger tubed versions of the steel counterpart. Nowadays there’s all sorts of gusseting and material shaping stuff going on.

I have four steel bikes, one is very stiff and heavy, but is a fatbike, so tends to be both and gets away with it because of the tyres. One is very springy, comfortable and light, which it should be, as it is a rigid singlespeed.

Good bikes match the needs of the bike/rider to the characteristics of the frame. Stanton, Orange and Cotic (all mentioned above, though there are many others) all seem to make bikes according to this way of thinking, whether it is alloy or steel should be secondary to if it fulfils its design brief.

woody2000 – Member
I have a 2016 Crush that on looks alone should be harsh, but it’s comfier than the gas pipe 456 it replaced
Tyre pressure probably makes more difference than frame material I reckon

That being true yes but being a hardtail I’ll be running higher pressure on the back to avoid punctures.

Good bikes match the needs of the bike/rider to the characteristics of the frame. Stanton, Orange and Cotic (all mentioned above, though there are many others) all seem to make bikes according to this way of thinking, whether it is alloy or steel should be secondary to if it fulfils its design brief

Not sure I agree or maybe understand your concept, orange for example have 2 hardtail bikes in their line up very much for the same idea of riding, the p7 and the crush both designed for hardcore riding and yet ones aluminium and the other is steel. I do like the look and geometry however on the p7 especially this year’s being slacker than the crush but is the extra heaviness of the steel frame needed now if the advantages of a steel frame is now taken away?

Having had steel aluminium and carbon I’m generally of the opinion that steel just means lugging more weight around. My steel framed bike, 853, is very nice to ride but a carbon 456 was more comfortable and lighter. The Boardman frame I had was light and certainly comfortable enough for 10 hours in the saddle.

Going from the last X years I’ve had bfe,radley bagger,radley TI, production privee shan26,27.5 and the oka to! I know FFS make your mind up. Am now on a 2016 crush.
So back to the answer for the most part there all good bikes cotic was great harsh on the back end though,
Bagger was fun and quit springy. TI well it’s TI so there you go!
Now the privee’ are great machines Shan is by far my favourite of all the steel frames I’ve had its just great but you do need to be able to handle a machine that can just about do it all super fast when pointed down! The oka it’s little,brother was also great but I didn’t give it much time as the new 917 Shan was launched and I had to have that lol.
So now on the crush alloy of cause it’s longer than the Shan and I’m on a 19inch one apposed to an xl in the Shan.
It’s shorter travel and just as fast and to date I’d say better on the back end it, less harsh I don’t get back feeling like my ankles have been through it that’s for certain.

I’ve had:
DN6 Inbred
DN6 456 Inbred
853 Inbred
653 Orange P7
853 Genesis Alpitude

now have a chameleon in last of the 26″ flavour.

I couldn’t tell the inbreds apart but my wallet noticed the difference.
the 456 was heavy and fairly dead feeling. never got on with it.
the P7 was heavy, but pedalled ok, and i liked it.
the alpitude was fun, made me go faster, but was really a bit small.

the chameleon should have me walking like john wayne by now, if internet wisdom holds true, but it’s geo is very similar to the alpitude, so it’s a hooligan, and it goes like hell.
‘maybe’ a bit more chatter over high frequency hits ( like a jump made of logs lined up ), but happily the clearance is huge, and a chunky monkey tyre run tubeless takes care of it all out back. ( i went through a stage of using maxxis freeride tubes in the rear at 40psi to avoid pinches, fwiw ).

steel might be real, but ally is hardly fictional.
steel is easier to fabricate with too.
far be it for me to suggest that this may be why smaller manufacturers still like it and promote it.

Tinbred … job done … 😉

Not sure I agree or maybe understand your concept, orange for example have 2 hardtail bikes in their line up very much for the same idea of riding, the p7 and the crush both designed for hardcore riding and yet ones aluminium and the other is steel.

That’s why manufacturers have very similarly intended steel and Alu offerings 🙂

Yeah, that was kind of my point about the P7 and the Crush. It doesn’t matter whether you make it steel or alloy, it’s still a good bike, so they made it in both because different people like different things. Would happily own either and I’m a proper steel freak.
Guess I didn’t word it so well.

456 EVO 2

I just striped my Inbred and resurrected my old GF Cobia a kilo lighter is hard to ignore.

pickle – Member
456 EVO 2

Not sure which frame material this is but had the steel 456 summer season before and that was the worst feeling bike I’ve had in my life! It felt horrible wooden and dead in contrast to my old p7 which is hardly the best steel either..judging by some of the replies here I think I may be best going back to aluminium..batman, I’ll have a look into the 650b shan though as that sounds up my street with the slack geometry.
Cheers chaps

chris85 – Member

Wanting a slack do it all hardtail, slacker the better really. My main concern now is are steel hardtails too heavy since that new regulation came in and have they lost that ‘zippieness’ because of it?

Nah… As ever, depends on the frame, the steel, the construction… It’s always been possible to make a harsh or lumpen steel frame, possibly it’s a little harder now to make a nice, zesty one. But when the CEN rules came in loads of people said “It’s the end of proper steel hardtails, it’ll add tons of weight and stiffness” then Cy came along and went “I’ve just made the Soul pass CEN, it rides the same and it’s lighter” 😆

By and large, the more steel, the less “steely” it rides. If that’s what you’re after then look at the light end. Which unfortunately does mean expensive.

Mackem – Member

It’s a long time since Alu frames ran harsh.

Tons of alu frames are still harsh.

woody2000 – Member

I have a 2016 Crush that on looks alone should be harsh, but it’s comfier than the gas pipe 456 it replaced

I haven’t ridden the new Crush, but if it was the old pre-evo 456, it was always a lump. I sometimes think they designed it specifically to catch out delusional people. “I got this steel bike, it’s so comfy and springy”.

haven’t ridden the new Crush, but if it was the old pre-evo 456, it was always a lump. I sometimes think they designed it specifically to catch out delusional people. “I got this steel bike, it’s so comfy and springy”

So you saying the new 456’s are of better steel than the shit they were made of before? And maybe worth considering?

Niner Ros9 if you have the funds…. talk to Spokes Bike Shop, they are good guys and might have one built up.

chris85 – Member

So you saying the new 456’s are of better steel than the shit they were made of before? And maybe worth considering?

Sorry, haven’t ridden one to comment. I’ve heard they’re a bit less lumpen though. TBH, it’s just pretty much how it is I think- the more steel you use, the less “steely” it’ll feel, thicker tubes are stiffer. My BFe was pretty similiar, the Sov I rode too, it’s not just a cheap on one thing to be fair to them.

But it was weird, when I had my gen 1 scandal, a mate had a bred and he kept on about how my bike’d be too stiff for him and he loved the steel… Joke being, the scandium scandal was pretty soft, lovely ride. If you a/b tested those too you’d think the bred was alu I reckon.

My 2010 Crush was the most god awful thing I’d ever ridden. The MK3 Soul I eventually got was simply the best bike I ever owned, but only ever really felt right with 120 forks. Swapped that for a ti Stanton slackline to run bigger forks…which I broke.

Now on a Stanton switchback, and although not as ‘springy’ as the Soul, its still very comfortable, has brilliant geometry, really stable at speed and feels pretty bomb proof.

Weight wise, my med comes in at 29lb, but it doesn’t ride like it.

Matther – you on a MK I or a MK Il Ti? I’m on a MK II after my MK I was stolen and it’s even more stable with a longer top tube. I don’t think it’s quite as much fun as the previous one but it’s faster and has better tyre clearance!

If you want plush but still a bit playful, track down a 1st gen Niner SIR.9 or MCR & stick some b+ wheels on it.
Or, just buy a Stache.

Mindmap – not on a ti, but the steel version. I’m very tempted by the new blue switchback with better tyre clearance

I think big(ger) wheels, longer forks, stiff dropper posts (and the bigger seat tubes they bring) have resulted in the death of the springy steel frame.

Springy is such a wooly term too, one man’s springy bike is another man’s overly flexy nightmare.

I have had a bunch of steel HTs over the years and some had more give than others.
Unsurprisingly the most “mythical steel” in it’s ride was a Tange Prestige tubed Specialized Stumpjumper.

The least “steel-like” is probably a tie between my my current bike, Chromag Rootdown and a my old Dialled Bikes PA.

Interestingly the Ragley Blue Pig I had was actually quite flexy in a comfy sort of way.

I think the change to 27.5 wheels with my Zero AM has added enough rollover smoothness to cancel out the loss of frame compliance vs my Mk2 Soul.

The newer evo2 456’s have a skinnier top tube than the older ones so are more compliant.