• This topic has 120 replies, 47 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by DrJ.
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  • Greg Clarke, what a moron.
  • joepud
    Free Member

    Its no wonder the football is full oh homophobia and racism when at the very top this is going on. He shouldn’t have stepped down he should have been sacked.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54894864

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    My wife has mixed opinions on this.   Her view is that if it wasn’t used in a negative context he should have been warned that it can be perceived negatively and advised never to use the word again.   If attempting to describe the wider connotation of non white/caucasian players is what he was doing then it not really much worse a categorisation than BAME, other than its roots.

    So perhaps not an instant sacking offence, but an opportunity for apology and education to be publicly displayed for all to learn from as an example of subliminal racism from a person who likely grew up with the word “coloured” as the least offensive categorisation in his vocabulary – e.g. intrinsically habitual albeit not acceptable in todays society.

    Edit:  So yes he’s right to resign, and should use his outcome and fading platform as an example to educate

    Coyote
    Free Member

    Agree that his choice of the word “coloured” was probably lazy or clumsy rather than intentionally offensive. That said, his stereotypical views on different ethnic and sexual groups are offensive and removing him from his position would have been a valid course of action.

    wwpaddler
    Free Member

    Don’t think it was just his use of the word coloured but also his views on Asians being better at IT than football and black people being better at football than IT and that ethnicity / race determined what you were likely to be good at which were more shocking to me.

    argee
    Full Member

    Struggling to work out how this has turned into such a massive story, he used an inappropriate term, but was genuinely apologetic and gave a valid enough reason for it. It does seem to have gone a bit political now though, which is never a good thing, from what i can see it’s just going to cause more division by the way things are going on this.

    Harry_the_Spider
    Full Member

    He just sounded like an old duffer stumbling over his words. I don’t think that he intended to offend, but he did and made his position untenable.

    oldbloke
    Free Member

    Bottom of that BBC story says he was warned about language a few years ago. So quite possibly a case of having to go because he has previous and has shown an inability / unwillingness to learn. Not a good trait in a leader in any organisation.

    dannyh
    Free Member

    Don’t think it was just his use of the word coloured but also his views on Asians being better at IT than football and black people being better at football than IT and that ethnicity / race determined what you were likely to be good at which were more shocking to me.

    Almost a dictionary definition of ‘prejudice’….

    Superficial
    Free Member

    Also, diversity in football and tolerance towards POC, gay people etc is very topical and should be top of his ‘to sort out’ list. He’s, at best, failing to make even the most basic provisions to make that happen and at worst being wilfully ignorant about the biggest problem in the sport that he oversees.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    My wife has mixed opinions on this. Her view is that if it wasn’t used in a negative context he should have been warned that it can be perceived negatively and advised never to use the word again. If attempting to describe the wider connotation of non white/caucasian players is what he was doing then it not really much worse a categorisation than BAME, other than its roots.

    So perhaps not an instant sacking offence, but an opportunity for apology and education to be publicly displayed for all to learn from as an example of subliminal racism from a person who likely grew up with the word “coloured” as the least offensive categorisation in his vocabulary – e.g. intrinsically habitual albeit not acceptable in todays society.

    Edit: So yes he’s right to resign, and should use his outcome and fading platform as an example to educate

    If you take his words in the context of someone who described institutional racism as ‘fluff’ a few years back, it’s just further evidence that perhaps his private stance on these issues is flawed (a generous interpretation), and that perhaps, the FA needs some new leadership.

    grum
    Free Member

    I don’t think using the word then apologising is wildly offensive it’s just that along with the other (more offensive/clumsy) stuff he said it makes him look like a dinosaur.

    There’s also the whole shady moves he made around the European Super League.

    joepud
    Free Member

    Struggling to work out how this has turned into such a massive story, he used an inappropriate term, but was genuinely apologetic and gave a valid enough reason for it

    Some people (myself included) may argue that there is no valid reason to use such language.

    kennyp
    Free Member

    Don’t think it was just his use of the word coloured but also his views on Asians being better at IT than football and black people being better at football than IT and that ethnicity / race determined what you were likely to be good at which were more shocking to me.

    Last football match I watched had loads of talented, well paid black footballers. Last IT department I worked in had loads of talented, well paid Asian software developers.

    wingnuts
    Full Member

    We had quite a discussion about this this morning. Unusually we ended up with us taking the opposite views to the ones expected.
    Mrs W is black and a right on social worker. She accepted that he was an old duffer whose words reflected his age, places where he had worked and that it wasn’t being used in a negative manner. His immediate apology seemed sincere to her. She even used the phrase “PC gone mad”. It was what she would possibly expect from my 94 year old mother who is the least offensive person you could imagine and would be very upset if her choice of language caused any hurt.
    I took the view that he is leading an organisation that includes representation of a large number of role models and has high public visibility. Therefore he has to work to and present the highest standards. He needed to be projecting the correct values rather than some well meaning intentions.
    I do wonder if there were other pressures at play and this created an opportunity for change. Even if this wasn’t the case at least he recognised the issue, held up his hand and acted honourably. Oh that others would do the same!

    white101
    Full Member

    Surely at this level you prep for an interview, and given the topic you use the words and phrases around the subject that you would have heard on one of your much heralded equality & diversity programmes at the FA. But no.

    He did the organisation no favours yesterday when he really could have and instead exposed failings, no matter how apologetic he was.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    Bottom of that BBC story says he was warned about language a few years ago. So quite possibly a case of having to go because he has previous and has shown an inability / unwillingness to learn. Not a good trait in a leader in any organisation.

    Yeah, I think it was the straw that boke the camels back. A failure to learn and “get it” he was just trying to use the “correct words” and failed to understand the issue.

    binners
    Full Member

    The most noticeable thing about the interview wasn’t the racism, seism or homophobia, though that was bad enough

    It’s that, like a lot of people in senior roles in this country – including the present government – you look at people like him and think ‘how in the name of god did you end up in that position?’. Other than the Old Boys Club and good old fashioned nepotism.

    He’d turned up for an important meeting un-briefed (or hadn’t bothered to read his brief), totally unprepared, seemed to have no specialist knowledge, rambled on incoherently at length, was clearly just winging it, seemed completely out of touch with reality, then chucked in some glaringly offensive opinions and terms just for good measure

    It reminds me of someone else who’s inexplicably ended up in a senior role he’s completely unqualified for.

    Anyway… at least we’re left in no doubt why the FA is in such a mess if thats the standard of leadership at senior management level

    kerley
    Free Member

    Surely at this level

    This is the crux of it. It is not some old out of touch retired bloke who used the word when asked a question in the street it is someone in a position of power where they have a lot of race issues to sort out so should be aware of what is acceptable in 2020.

    TomB
    Full Member

    It’s not just the ‘coloured’ idiocy. There’s a range of guff that shouldn’t come from the top of the FA, including lazy stereotyping (the south asian vs afro-carribean ‘work/career ethic’ and ‘girls not liking a ball kicked at them hard’). Resignation is appropriate, in my view.

    FB-ATB
    Full Member

    He’d turned up for an important meeting un-briefed (or hadn’t bothered to read his brief), totally unprepared, seemed to have no specialist knowledge, rambled on incoherently at length, was clearly just winging it, seemed completely out of touch with reality, then chucked in some glaringly offensive opinions and terms just for good measure

    Perhaps he’d been briefed by David Davies after his stellar Brexit negotiations!

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Sounded to me like a dinosaur has been put out of his misery for outdated choice if words, but clearly there is a history that I wasn’t aware of with him.

    I’ll hold my hands up, correct language around race is a bloody nightmare for middle aged white guys, terms I was told to use 10-20 years ago are now apparently out of date and offensive. It’s very hard to have an honest discussion around the issue when you are desperate not to use the wrong term.

    ransos
    Free Member

    Last football match I watched had loads of talented, well paid black footballers. Last IT department I worked in had loads of talented, well paid Asian software developers.

    Do you believe that’s due to an innate characteristic of their race?

    binners
    Full Member

    A more relevant point would be that now he’s resigned, who will replace him.

    I’m guessing it’ll be either

    a) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie
    b) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie
    c) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie
    d) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie
    e) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie

    or

    f) An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie

    chakaping
    Free Member

    As above, not just the “coloured” thing, but a rich history of mildly offensive buffoonery.

    Obviously it is no laughing matter, but I couldn’t help chuckling that this had all happened in a parliamentary hearing on diversity in sport.

    Armando Ianucci would have thought that was too obvious for a plotline in The Thick of It.

    binners
    Full Member

    I’ll hold my hands up, correct language around race is a bloody nightmare for middle aged white guys

    As a middle-aged white guy, it really isn’t. These words and phrases aren’t worked out by some secret committee who change them every week to keep everyone on their toes. All that is required is a modicum of awareness and sensibility

    It’s not hard at all. It certainly shouldn’t be regarded as some kind of chore, as it seems to be to a lot of (middle-aged, white) people

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I like to think there was some poor FA communications officer listening in, head in hands, having spent several fruitless hours the day before trying to get Greg Clarke to enter the 21st Century.

    kennyp
    Free Member

    Do you believe that’s due to an innate characteristic of their race?

    I haven’t a clue and I really don’t care. I merely posted it to point out that sometimes people can say things that reflect the realities of life, rather than them being overtly racist.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Clarke has previous for inappropriate and offensive comments; he comes from Leicester – ‘the most diverse city in the UK’ – which might suggest he should have some understanding of racial issues.

    His preparation for appearing before the DCMS was woefully inadequate – as it was last time; he should have insisted the FA media team brief him thoroughly.
    If he hadn’t resigned would the FA have sacked him?
    As for binners crystal ball prediction above^^^ that’s what the FA have always done and I can’t see them changing this time.

    Racism, sexism and homophobia have been closely associated with football for decades and, regrettably, still are.
    Clarke should have been fully aware go this and used every opportunity to demonstrate what the FA are doing to rid themselves, as far as possible, of these associations; to demonstrate what progress they’re making.

    Will FIFA do the right thing and show him the door?
    I hope so but doubt it.

    ransos
    Free Member

    I haven’t a clue and I really don’t care. I merely posted it to point out that sometimes people can say things that reflect the realities of life, rather than them being overtly racist.

    Has it occurred to you that the “realities of life” are due to racism? At the very least, I would expect the head of the FA to be reviewing his recruitment practices if it’s the case that a department is dominated by one particular ethnic group. Maybe he didn’t because, like you, he doesn’t care. Good riddance.

    sirromj
    Free Member

    An old, white male wearing a blazer and an old school tie

    donald
    Free Member

    He used the word ‘coloured’. That doesn’t mean he is racist but it does mean he is hopelessly out of touch to be chairman of a body like the FA in 2020.

    He described homosexuality as a ‘lifestyle choice’. That doesn’t mean he is homophobic but it does mean he is hopelessly out of touch to be chairman of a body like the FA in 2020.

    He described black and asian people as having ‘different career interests’. That may well be true. It definitely doesn’t mean he is a racist. But it is only one point in a much more complex discussion about equality of opportunity, cultural norms, education and expectations of society at large. I wouldn’t expect the chairman of a body like the FA to blunder into that minefield in a televised meeting of a parliamentary committee.

    kennyp
    Free Member

    Has it occurred to you that the “realities of life” are due to racism?

    Has it occurred to you that they’re not?

    inkster
    Free Member

    I understand why people of a certain generationhave difficulty with terminology around race. Once upon a time people like my mother would have used the word coloured to describe black people in order to not cause offence, being rather uncomfortable using the word black.

    She got with the plan sometime during the late 80’s though. She was not however in charge of a national sporting body.

    The answer to the question ‘who should replace him? My No.1 candidate would be Les Ferdinand.

    joepud
    Free Member

    Has it occurred to you that they’re not?

    Its pretty common knowledge racism and social mobility are a real thing and one causes the other and its very much a real thing.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    It’s not hard at all. It certainly shouldn’t be regarded as some kind of chore, as it seems to be to a lot of (middle-aged, white) people

    I assume you mean “people of whiteness”. Consider me offended

    Coulda bin worse – he could have talked about “picanninies” and “tank-topped bum boys”.

    kerley
    Free Member

    He described homosexuality as a ‘lifestyle choice’. That doesn’t mean he is homophobic

    That level of ignorance really isn’t far away from it though is it.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    She got with the plan sometime during the late 80’s though. She was not however in charge of a national sporting body.

    Would she fancy a crack at it though?

    binners
    Full Member

    Coulda bin worse – he could have talked about “picanninies” and “tank-topped bum boys”.

    It’s really an absolute mystery why theres such a lack of awareness on these issues when we have such strong, inclusive and progressive leadership in this country, isn’t it?

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    I thought it was harsh, he was clumsy and should know better.

    Then I read further. He has significant form. He referred to being gay as being a lifestyle choice! I strongly suspected the powers that be were delighted that he slipped up enough to be shoved. He is a dinosaur.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    his views on Asians being better at IT than football and black people being better at football than IT

    The quote I saw was:

    “If you go to the IT department of the FA, there’s a lot more South Asians than there are Afro-Caribbeans. They have different career interests”.

    which is a bit different and from my experience in IT is probably justified. India in particular has produced enormous numbers of very good IT professionals – I’ve worked with them and at at one time been rendered redundant by their existence!

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