Love my Keela Belay jacket, it was a bargain too. I also like Lusso cycling kit, comfiest bibs I’ve tried.

New Balance manufacture in the UK some of their trainers

I really like Jottnar, but their sizing is all over the place. I’m a standard large in every brand except Jottnar. They have been great accepting returns but I seem to jump between sizes.

Let’s face it, all but a niche minority of outdoor clothing is made in China. Such is life.

Am really impressed with the Keela kit I’ve got – the roadrunners are great on the bike and the waterproof I have for work is as good as anything else I’ve tried including Paramo and top end goretex shells

bike-bags do made to measure frame bags

https://www.buggybags.co.uk/pages/Bike%20Bag/Design%20Your%20Own%20Bag.htm

We have keela kit for work and I’m always a bit disappointed with it. It’s like the equivalent kit from 5 yrs ago. Noth8ng like as cutting edge as someone like patagonia for example. I think keela have decent env credentials but so do patagonia. Sometimes manufacturers that don’t produce in the uk may well be more sustainable than ones that use the uk.

If you want uk based and eco cred try Finisterre for coastal/ lowland outdoor gear. They’re not outdoor gear in its truest sense but have some decent jackets and stuff that is as sustainable as you get. Expensive as a result though.

Bizarre arguments there. I can’t honestly say I’ve seen much progress in five years and in some cases 40 years – Buffalo still does cold damp weather as well as anything. Indeed I miss some local brands from 20 years back and I’d still buy what they made then over what is available from the far east now. Mac waterproofs with a z-liner combined practicality, comfort and design in a way I haven’t found since – but the market at the price wasn’t enough to keep them going.

As for sustainability credentials any product that travels half way around the planet or more is going to have to work hard to compete with something made locally from local materials.

For the fans of the synthetic fleece:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/20/microfibers-plastic-pollution-oceans-patagonia-synthetic-clothes-microbeads

Amusing to see it’s Patagonia funding the research that shows it’s own products are a problem.

Amusing to see it’s Patagonia funding the research that shows it’s own products are a problem.

They have a long track record of this – they do actively look for issues, particularly ones they can influence themselves.

re. AMusing

What do you want them to do? Brush the problem under the carpet? Weird comment

Amusing to see it’s Patagonia funding the research that shows it’s own products are a problem.

This is to their great credit, and I am much more likely to trust them as a result, compared to some brands whose ‘sustainability’ pages are just a massive word salad

Expensive as a result though.

Which, for obvious reasons of scale and the cost of UK manufacturing, is pretty much every brand on this thread.

Wasn’t there a small UK company* making (no idea if UK made) MTB jackets in small runs? I can’t remember there name for the life of me..

*I’m sure STW and other mtb magazines featured them quite highly.

Good thread this – cheers Educator.

Buffalo for sure, been wearing mine a lot lately walking the hounds, had it 20+ years and it’s still great. We’ve several Sheffield made Rab jackets and a one-off down sleeping bag that are brilliant too. Whilst past it’s best now our Terra Nova Hyperspace from 1996 was fab. 1990s Karrimor rucsacs likewise, one has finally given up with a ripped compression lid and sadly getting a soaking in engine oil, which I can’t get out. I did have a Manchester made Sprayway waterproof that I loved, but one long wet walk in Ireland and it left a yellow hue on my rucsac back pad, so off it went.

I had a Manchester made Sprayway, it was excellent until stolen, I hope the thief made good use of it. A climbing 4 jacket too, that was made by teachers from the same school who quit to set up Climbing 4.

“Amusing” because I ran an acid waters research project funded by two of the organisations most responsible for surface water acidification. Your reactions to Patagonia are exactly what they hoped to achieve by funding the research. It’s all about communication and having influence over the dialogue.

I haven’t bought a plastic bottle recycled fleece since I realised there was an issue with them. The idea seemed great and the fleeces work very well, a piss off to find a flaw. I insulated under the floor of my house with recycled polyester too – at least that won’t be washed. I’ve now come to the conclusion it’s best not to by liquids in plastic bottles.

I know someone doing research at Plymouth university on retrofit filters on washing machines for catching clothing related microplastics.

not biking related but Snugg wetsuits make awesome wetsuits in a shed in newquay. Really long waiting list though.

Karrimor, Sprayway and to a lesser extent Terra Nova have all significantly declined in terms of the quality of their kit, sadly. Back in the late 80s, Sprayway’s Torridon jacket was the one to have – we have a donated example in our kitstore at work that still beads in rain, although it weighs a ton and is so inflexible, it feels like putting on body armour. I suspect that, if we want a more sustainable ethos behind outdoor gear, moving away from ‘fast and light’ and returning to more durable face fabrics would be a significant step in the right direction.

I’ve always been fascinated by the enthusiasm for pile/pertex – I find it far too inflexible a system, especially working hard on the uphills, where I start to find it claustrophobically hot really quickly. I’d much rather have on a fleece top and a windshirt, where there are more options for layering.

The trouble with Patagonia’s ethical stance, and someone called them out on this at the last KMFF – they are still selling large volumes of clothes the vast majority of which people could do without.

You could argue they provide a better model and people are better off buying from them than other brands, but the problem fundamentally is capitalism and the growth model which has taught us that we have to keep buying stuff to be happy/keep the economy going, and Patagonia are still feeding into that as much as anyone else.

Karrimor, Sprayway and to a lesser extent Terra Nova have all significantly declined in terms of the quality of their kit, sadly.

karrimor is a shell brand for sports direct isn’t it?

have the others declined or just not advanced?

Madame has a Snugg. It’s about 25 years old and still remarkably supple. It was their top triathlon suit at the time and a few other French female athletes used them. If you have a shape that needs a made to measure suit I can’t think of anywhere better to have one made. We loved the Newquay shed, proper cottage industry stuff, we paid for it then popped down to the beach and annoyed the surfers testing it.

Worthwhile stop on this purity spiral of a journey is outdoor gear exchange on facebook. Good quality used kit quite often pops up for sale at a decent price, need to be quick though.

Reuse.

I quite like Hilltrek clothing

https://hilltrek.co.uk/

Very expensive but the only jacket I’ve ever had that was properly waterproof and lasted more than two seasons.

And you can talk direct to the lady that sews them.

I think malcom is still in the same shed round the back of the golf course. Small but loyal following.

I suspect that, if we want a more sustainable ethos behind outdoor gear, moving away from ‘fast and light’ and returning to more durable face fabrics would be a significant step in the right direction.

I’m not sure that durability – ie: kit being replaced because it’s actually worn out – is the driver here. More classic consumerism with people ‘upgrading’ to the latest, ‘better’ wonder fabric or design. Also, for several years, Mike Parsons who ‘was’ Karrimor for many years, ran a regular conference on innovation in the outdoors industry, which rapidly became more about sustainability in the outdoors industry. Mostly it emerged that sustainability is very complicated and the ecological and environmental costs of a particular product aren’t always where you think they are in the process.

Ultimately the most sustainable thing you can do is simply not to buy more stuff. Don’t buy new bikes, clothing, tech, just use what you have, repair it, upgrade it. I don’t believe with outdoor clothing that many people – guides and instructors excepted – regularly wear it out. People just upgrade.

I need to photograph some of my kit that’s still in use. 😉

Edit:

Buffalo in need of sewing. Kiwami made-before-my-eyes short in need of sewing again.