I admit, I have no knowledge of this stuff, so here’s what I’d like to do:

On a trip last year in SE Asia I met a guy that had this GPS thing linked to his phone that tracked the route and he told me he could put it onto google earth, and it told him distance/time/speed/altitude etc.

What would I need to be able to do something similar, doesn’t have to be connected to a phone – I’m guessing you need quite a fancy (lots of £’s) phone and I usually get a cheap basic one – so a stand alone type thing? Also would be good if you could link it to digital OS mapping for local routes in the UK, and of course work worldwide – I go on a few trips every year, so battery life would be important too?

Is there something like that, is it lots of £’s, is it ‘classified’?

Recommendations or links to websites/reviews and info appreciated – but try to keep it simple please?

Thanks.

using a GPS and PC software for mountain biking By Crispin Bennett

I thoroughly recommend the use of a GPS for cycling. It will save you hours on the trail.

However if you don’t explore and only use waymarked cycle trails stop reading this now and save yourself some money.

I use a Garmin etrex Legend Cx. I bought it in the states at about half the UK price for around £75 but it comes with the US basemap not the UK one so bear this in mind if you buy an import from ebay. (the base map is not very detailed)

The advantages of an Etrex : You can buy a handlebar mount for the etrex range. They are waterproof and durable. The colour display works much better in daylight than a PDA and the batteries last 25 hours.

It’s best to plan your route using something like
memory map (£100 per region) or
TrackLogs (£146 – 80km centred map)
the above use OS mapping on a computer and then upload the route to the GPS unit.

Not all GPS units support mapping. To upload maps to the GPS unit you need to get the Garmin map source software: –
Garmin Metroguide Europe V8 for roads (£100) no unlocking and no automatic routing on the GPS (or does it Wink
City Navigator Europe NT for roads (£150)
UK Topo for bridle paths (£150)
Don’t buy these second hand, once “unlocked” to a GPS unit the software is useless and if the GPS unit fails you will have to buy another copy (a bit harsh).

It’s worth getting a: –
Cx model because you can expand the memory by buying a bigger micro SD card and a
H model to get the high sensitivity SiRF III receiver so you don’t loose signal in the forest.

I woud get the Legend HCx (£170) if I were buying again but there may be newer stuff that is better.

You will need to buy the handlebar mount (£13)

The cable to connect to a computer is a standard mini USB on the newer Garmin models but on the older ones it’s an expensive serial lead (£20)

Total cost £500? if you buy software

Agree with most of that, but the good news is you can get a (Garmin) Legend HCx from Amazon for a smidge under £130 – not £170.

Personally I’d hold off on buying a stack of Garmin mapping. Download demos of Memory Map/Tracklogs/Anquet/Que and then get the one you like the best.

GPSU, all the features of memory map and tracklogs but without the price, all you have to do is supply the map. Serves me well!

you could also use bikely or every trail or bike hike to plot your route for free.

I use a Garmin Geko 201. Much cheaper – it costs about £65, doesn’t run with maps on the GPS itself, but I don’t need them, I carry maps anyway. I plan routes on my computer using memory map software, and load tracks back on afterwards. It can be used both to navigate routes and store ones you’ve done. Also can tell you where you are by giving you grid refs to 6 digits and altitude readings, plus all the usual gumf a bike computer would tell you like max speed, distance travelled, eta etc etc..

The ones with maps etc cost at least double this I think, and the maps are v expensive. I’m happy without this extra functionality personally.

I think the geko is all I need to be honest. You’d need to buy a handlebar mount and lead to connect it to your computer via usb cable.

You’d need to buy a handlebar mount and lead to connect it to your computer via usb cable.

Something like a secondhand monochrome eTrex or Geko is quite a good place to start if you can get one for say £30 – but the problem with buying new is that by the time you’ve paid out £65 for the GPS and £20 for a lead it looks pretty poor value compared with one of the newer colour models.

Wow, lots of great info … thanks everyone!

It’s a bit clearer to me, but I’ll have to read through the info a few times to get my head around it a bit more, thanks for the link abductee, really useful and easily explained.

Cheers

I’m sure there is lots of useful information in the post from abductee but the pricing on the maps is completely out.

I use Tracklogs myself (along with a Garmin Edge Edge 305) and you can get the whole of England for £90 !!!

Work great together – don’t see the need for anything else other the unit and the Tracklogs.

If you don’t want to buy the Garmin MapSource maps, there are some free maps available that can be loaded onto the Garmin eTrex Legend HCx and similar.

You can get contour maps of the whole of the UK here: http://www.smc.org.uk/ContourMaps.htm
And OpenStreetMap is now getting pretty good for roads in most of the UK: http://openstreetmap.org/. And it has paths and tracks etc in some areas – if your local tracks are missing you can add them!
See instructions for OSM Map on Garmin

Mmm, well spent most of the afternoon looking at the various GPS’s available, would be nice to have a colour screen but it seems that the maps, base maps and even the topo maps are not that brilliant but the expandable memory and better receiver of something like the Vista HCx would be better, seems you can add OS maps to the Oregon models but the areas are limited at the moment and the models are more £’s, I see not all do altitude either, looking for this function as I think this could be useful/interesting when going over somewhere like the Himalayas, and battery life could be an issue if on an extended trip – think the edge models may be better as I think they are rechargeable, but then you will need a power source whereas the etrex use AA’s so could just carry spare batteries?

So, still not made up my mind yet?

Thanks for those links CraigW

Is Garmin the best, most used, or is there any alternatives?

I don’t think you can ever safely abandon carrying maps to be honest. Low cloud cover, trees etc can affect reception. I’d be factoring this in to the equation whatever choice you make.

Satmap is an alternative, but reviews are mixed.

Don’t worry about the altitude too much. All GPSs display GPS altitude but you can get better accuracy with barometric altimeter. I have never felt the need for any greater vertical accuracy.

You need to have a think about what you will be using the satnav for. Off road XC, touring, performance training and street navigation will all have different requirements which will affect your decision.

Sorry if my prices above are a bit out of date. The prices and the technology do not stand still so my advice could be a bit dated as well so have a good look around before you part with your money.

Have a look at the satmap active 10

Gadget show garmin edge

Gadget show wild challenge 2

gadget show winter challenge

I use a Garmin Etrex Vista HCx here in Tenerife, all the talk of memory map etc is pretty useless here as I don’t have the maps to support route planning on the PC. However, with a good quality contour map now sourced for the Vista it’s a real boon. The Vista is more use than the older monochrome unit I had as that would not hold detailed maps of the area so was only really any use to give a grid ref to confirm your position on a paper map. Great in the UK with the OS maps, but useless here where most of the maps have no grid refs at all. Now with the maps on the vista I can see exactly where I am and plan an alternative route on the map in the Vista if I need to.
Afterwards I use GPS Trackmaker (freeware) to download the track data from the garmin and save it in a format I can use in Google Earth (.kml files)it works just fine.
Battery life on the new colour units is far superior to the older Garmin I have. Plus with the new Energiser lithium batteries the unit lasts for ages on a single set. Well over the stated 25 hours or so.

Alternatively, if you are just after route logging, rather than using a GPS to follow a set course, then using something like the Nokias Sportstracker which runs on their GPS enabled S60 phones (I use a Nokia 6210 Navigator) is ideal. You ride a route, it keeps track of where you have gone, and then you can upload it to the website, where you can then let other people see it. I believe, although I haven’t tried it, that it can even do this live…

There is also some OS mapping for the phones as well, but I can never remember the name of the software… but I am sure that someone on here will know it.

The only issue is battery life, but you can now get little recharger units that plug into most phones that will give them a couple of recharges and keep them going for longer.

I was out with someone on Weds night who had the nokia phone version and we were mucking about with it out of curiosity on a route we knew well. I think he downloaded memory map for not a lot of cash at all hem hem, so interesting solution.

Seemed v useful if you want to quickly spot exactly where you are on the map rather than translate what my geko gave as co-ordinates onto a physical map. This is not usually much of a prob, but maybe so when there are numerous tracks in a small area and you need to know exactly which one you’re on.

Using such small screens with proper maps was a new experience for me. If you zoom in to granular detail it’s like looking at a 2 inch square bit of an OS map. If you zoom out to see the bigger picture, the screen is so small you can’t really see much.

As funkynick says, battery life can be preserved if you just switch on to map view mode on the phone as you need it – I think people tend to do this with GPS’s that carry maps too? The tracking facility runs permanently, but you’d wipe out the battery v quick if you kept it on the map page.

Worth considering that mobile phones just aren’t so robust for proper outdoor use – I’ve dropped my geko into a river and had to fish it out from about 2ft of water and it works fine. Think about use in driving rain, mud, freezing cold, wearing gloves and that sort of thing. Mobiles weren’t designed for that type of use I think?

Had a look at the satmap 10, looks really good and uses OS maps that seem to be a lot cheaper than the garmin one’s you can get for some of their models, I like the idea of OS maps as I can relate them to the area I’m in quickly and 90% of my riding is off-road, but I read somewhere that you can’t use memorymap/tracklogs with the satmap 10 – bit daft if you ask me, something to do with licensesing. So it seems that the satmap uses OS maps but you can’t plot routes using other software, or you can plot routes using software and load them into garmins but they don’t use OS maps 😕

Interesting watching the gadget show stuff.

Basically what I’m looking for is something to plot new routes to follow without having to stop and get a map out to check if I’m on the right track or need to turn onto another track, and to be able to record the routes where you decide to take a different turn just to see where it goes – my local forest has lots of singletrack criss-crossing it and I’d like to note which bits are good, and also to be able to record my routes abroad and add them to google earth to see where I’ve been, how high, distances, time, etc.

Another question, how easy is it to add routes to google earth, I’ve not looked into this yet, easy?

The software for phones that funkynick means is ViewRanger. Works on Symbian phones.
I’ve used this for 2 years on my nokia 5500 (shockproof, waterproof(ish)), with the phone attached to the stem.
It will record tracks as you ride, let you follow routes, graph speed, altitude etc. and now it even lets you download maps over GPRS when you are out and about 🙂 very handy.
I kind of got the phone specially because I wanted to do this. The software itself was only about £20 including a selection of map tiles. So to me it is so much cheaper than all the other options.

For google earth etc. you can export to .GPX
This is getting pretty standard now and is great for seeing in 3D where you’ve been. Easy 🙂

as a slightly alternative suggestion, buy a 2nd hand unit and see if you like it before spending on a new unit. i paid about 50quid for an etrex legend with bikemount, cable etc.

my experience with it so far is pretty good, but i’m still getting to grips with it. i’m not that techy but found loading/uploading routes very simple and the online mapping superb(i use tracklogs).

on the trail following the gps is good although i did do a route the other day copied from an old mag that had a mistake (a turn to follow a track where there was’nt one), had to revert to the os map to get back on track as the gps was trying to send me all over the place (i could see on the map i needed to follow the road to the left for about 1/2mile to rejoin the trail further along the route but the gps wanted me to go right at the road. not sure why).

Buy 2nd hand – I think that’s what I’ll do to see how I get on?

Interesting reading other posts on the GPS subject, quite a few saying they find it fine without maps, and of course if doing new routes I would take a map anyway.

Not sure about going the phone route, I know even less about those – what’s a symbian phone?? – and wonder about their durability, waterproofness, ease of use?

Another question I just thought of – If I go somewhere, buy an OS map, work out a route I’d like to do, is it easy to put that route into a GPS just using the info from the map, ie I would not have access to MM or tracklogs or PC ?

Going back to absolute basics, here’s the core functionality/use I make out of my gps:

I got a geko 201 to save time on our Sat morning exploration rides. It’s meant we spend less time messing with maps in unfamiliar places and more time out riding. Rides are first pre-planned on memory map, which also tells you accurately how much distance/climbing is involved, and you can configure it to estimate time taken. V handy.

When you’ve done your planning, you connect the gps to the pc with a cable you buy separately, and load up the details. Then you clip it to your handlebars (handlebar mount also costs separately). Tends to take a couple of mins to first connect to satellites when you switch it on.

You basically have 2 navigation specific screens on a geko – one which shows your planned route as a thick black line and you can see whether you’re on it or not because you can see the track you’ve actually followed as a thin dotted line. I tend to stay on that screen most of the time. And then there’s a compass screen with a direction arrow on it and you can simply follow the direction of the arrow to navigate too.

There is loads of other info, and you can do things like re-trace your route etc but the stuff I use most when on a ride other than the 2 screens above is trip distance, altitude, and grid refs. If in doubt you’d still need to get out a proper map. The gps will tell you the grid ref you’re at to 6 figures and if you couple that with altitude it’s easy to work out where you are on the map.

There is a “mark” facility – you press it for eg if you pass something that looks an interesting spot you might want to look at on the map for another time. Perhaps a new potential downhill you don’t know where it goes to?

You can plot a route or changes to the route on a geko if you’re Einstein and have 36 hours to play with. It involves manually adding waypoint grid refs which you pick up from a map and interpret accurately. Don’t even go there in practice.

Signal accuracy is v good, but I have found the gps unable to pick up a location twice on 2 particularly cloudy/rainy/foggy rides in the lakes & dales. On both occasions this was in an exposed position – no trees around to interfere with the signal. Also occasionally happens in thick tree cover. I ride at least once a week, and have been using the gps for years – only had this type of issue 3 or 4 times, but it shows you can’t absolutely depend on it in isolation. You still need maps/compass in case you lose the signal, the device gets bust, or you need to plan a bail out in an emergency.

Then when you get home, you load the track and marks you’ve just followed on your PC and bingo, you have it stored for ever, along with how long it took, what speed you were going at any particular point, altitude gained, and so on. You can then print it off, send it as a pdf, send it to others with memory map, plonk it onto google earth or whatever.

Battery life tends to be about 6-8 hours – it runs on 2x AAAs. Re-chargeables give a longer battery life, and if I’m on a long ride I always carry spares. Cold weather affects battery life.

To use it abroad you re-configure it to say, dsiplay in the French equivalent to ur OS grid refs.

The Geko is now ancient, and the more modern GPS kit carries a map in colour on the device, as does the phone option. But no doubt there’s other stuff they’re better at too – at a price. So maybe peeps with the more modern stuff could tell you what you get over and above this for the extra to help you make your decision?

Phew!

is it easy to put that route into a GPS just using the info from the map, ie I would not have access to MM or tracklogs or PC

?

You could use Google Earth, Google Maps – or one of the sites like mapmyride that provides a front end to Google Maps. In my experience having the software does make the job a bit quicker but isn’t essential. A lot depends on whether you already have a lot of money invested in paper maps. If you don’t, then digital maps that you can print off as you need them are cheaper.

There are lots of different ways you can use a GPS:

– you can just use it to give you a give a grid reference to check against a paper map;
– you can use it simply to record where you’ve been;
– you can use it to follow a track you’ve planned;
– you can use it to tell you the way to the next waypoint on a route you have planned;
– you can use it to store information about the location of campsites, hostels etc (‘Points of Interest’);
– you can spend a whole lot of money on built-in maps, or have no maps at all, or use the basic mapping as a get you home;
– you can use them as a training aid (if you get one with an integrated heart rate monitor).

There’s no right and wrong, and as you’ll have worked out from the different posts on here, because people use them in so many different ways, there’s no such thing as a perfect GPS that suits everyone. If you buy secondhand you can trade up for the additional facilities if you find you need or want them.

The new generation GPSes do offer advantages over the old ones:

– more sensitive;
– better battery life;
– more data storage capacity (especially if it has a micro-SD card slot).

I think that when you compare the new prices they represent better value than the older ones – but it’s always a 6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other question. On the one hand if you spend £80 on something then find yourself trading it in within a year then that’s money wasted – on the other hand if you just want something to tell you where you are then there’s no point getting a £130 device when the £80 jobby would do the job.

So it seems that the satmap uses OS maps but you can’t plot routes using other software, or you can plot routes using software and load them into garmins but they don’t use OS maps

You can always export tracks in .gpx format – which is understood by all devices and (IIRC) Google Earth.

The problem is that the maps are locked to the software (or to the SatMap). So using MM to plan a route then exporting to SatMap would mean having two copies of the same map.

It’s definitely worth spending time checking out the different software before committing to buying the mapping.

Double post. D’Oh!

Chucking this email I got from the Satmap bossman into the mix:

“…..Let me address your questions one by one:

Memory Map. If you have v5 of this, you can still use it to create routes which can then be loaded onto the Active 10. Additionally, the Active 10 also has an onboard route planner, so any routes you have created on this, you will also be able to load onto your Memory map as well.
Map Cards. Our SD Cards that contain the maps can only be read on the Active 10: you cannot read these on your PC. This is due to the licence restrictions placed upon us by Ordnance Survey.

However, you might be interested to hear that in the next few weeks we are launching our own PC based route planning system. This is actually an Online Route planner and is accessed via another tab on our website. It contains the 1:25k maps and the 1:50k maps for the whole of GB – as well as the aerial photography. Behind this we are also providing a Route Share Forum where people will be able to exchange routes with each other. Both these pieces of software will be made available completely free of charge to all our existing registered customers. Therefore you will not have to double up on mapping – indeed, we are providing customers with free access to mapping worth many thousands of Pounds.

An announcement of the launch will go out on e-mail to all our customers, as well as a posting on our website. I note your comments about the cost of mapping being high generally – and you are quite right – but if you check out our website right now, you will see that we have several special offers for the Christmas period – such as half price mapping! So whilst we are aware that map cost can be high, I trust you can see that we do our best to provide customers with good value at every opportunity……..”

Interesting huh?

Phew! indeed snowslave … and interesting what satmap had to say, might keep an eye on their website?

Andym, not sure if you understood that question about entering details from a map? I meant with no access to a PC – a for-instance would be: I’m in a campsite in dorset, buy a OS map of the local area, work out some interesting route and want to put it into the GPS to help follow the route, I’m wondering if you can enter OS grid references straight from a map? … I’m not sure if this is possible, so apologies if it’s already been explained?

Really appreciate everyone’s input on here, loads of helpful information … Thanks K

I meant with no access to a PC – a for-instance would be: I’m in a campsite in dorset, buy a OS map of the local area, work out some interesting route and want to put it into the GPS to help follow the route, I’m wondering if you can enter OS grid references straight from a map? … I’m not sure if this is possible, so apologies if it’s already been explained?

Yes, it is possible to enter grid references to create waypoints and routes on the Garmin eTrex etc.
Though it’s rather fiddly and time consuming – as there’s no keyboard etc you have to pick each number using the joystick, so it takes a while. Its fine if you just want to enter a single waypoint, just to find your campsite for example, but I wouldn’t want to create a whole route manually (though you could if you really had to).