kimbers
Subscriber

So Johnson said we can’t participate in the EU scheme because we’re out of the EU, even tho EU said we can still be part of it.

While Hancock says we didn’t because we missed the deadline?

Brexit pigheadedness or just incompetence?

Why not both? But one of them’s lying and this really isn’t the best time for the health secretary and prime minister to be talking shite.

Sorry but I get very suspicious about altruistic businessmen, wonder if the price for making these machines apart from publicity is a peerage. Lord Suckandblow anyone?

Even the torygraph not impressed

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/01/downing-street-department-health-locked-row-access-eu-pandemic/

And they think Dysons statement was a PR stunt

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/26/row-erupts-governments-acquisition-dysons-untested-ventilators/

A neighbour has been taken to hospital with the corona virus, he has been put on one of the new dyson ventilators, latest update is he is picking up well!

That sucks drac

pistonbroke – FFS, I don’t give a flying one whose company is involved in supplying ventilators or what their motives might be.
Have a word with yourself and think twice before your next post.

Tbf Dyson is using it as a OR stunt, ventilators are needed now, we could well be past the peak before they are ready

So Frank, you get angry when I comment that major tory doner Dyson gets an order for 10,000 machines which won’t be delivered in time when existing manufacturers don’t even get a reply to their offer of help. Did you not see Newsnight yesterday?

pisthonbroke – not angry, just frustrated by ill-informed and unhelpful comments.
Saw newsnight.
You refer to existing manufacturers not receiving replies to their offers of help; did you not read gov comments attributing this to ‘communication problem’?
I don’t know who is being truthful; do you?
To re-iterate….I don’t care where the ventilators come from, what motives may be driving business owners nor am I interested (at present) in their political affiliation.
Kimbers – I assume you mean PR stunt; the fact that ventilators are needed now but we don’t have them is entirely down to the gov – it has absolutely nothing to do with Dyson.
So, let’s agree that we all want every bit of support we can get – from any source – and leave any other considerations for a later date.
That would be a mature attitude.

I agree the call for these ventilators should have been made 2 months ago rather than 2 weeks ago

I said was a PR stunt because Dyson announced that government would be taking them & then government said they wouldn’t because design hadn’t been tested yet (see torygraph article up there ☝

Wait a minute

Last week Hancock said they had seen the email?

Today the government said that they didn't receive or see the e-mail invitation from EU over ventilators

But Matt Hancock on @bbcqt confirmed last week they had received the invitation & were engaging.

Putting ideology before lives? #bbcqt #COVID2019 pic.twitter.com/fAjgI3ZqX0

— Deirdre Heenan (@deirdreheenan) March 26, 2020

I don’t care where the ventilators come from

But, if you’ve been following what’s happening in countries a bit ahead of us when it comes to spread, you absolutely should care when they become available, yes? If the government are failing to use channels available to them to get the kit in time, and looking at other slower routes for political reasons, then you can see why that could be an issue worthy of comment? Yes?

Anyway, lots of channels are under investigation, Dyson are not that only fruit, but some obvious ones seem to be being avoided… for Brexit grandstanding reasons, or too narrow a focus, who knows… but it is worrying.

the fact that ventilators are needed now but we don’t have them is entirely down to the gov – it has absolutely nothing to do with Dyson.
So, let’s agree that we all want every bit of support we can get – from any source – and leave any other considerations for a later date.

Agree with all this.

So we are in the EU scheme as well now then.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/how-the-uk-plans-to-source-30000-ventilators-for-nhs-coronavirus

Late on Thursday, the government said it would also join an EU scheme to procure ventilators, having initially said it would not take part because it had missed an invitation to do so owing to a “communication problem”.

And this \/\/\/

you absolutely should care when they become available, yes?

Seems pretty clear to me existing manufacturers will have a limit of daily production totals. Doesn’t matter if you get 30k ordered if the delivery date is too late.

Surely having UK suppliers as the main source would be preferable to joining an EU scheme when EU countries are in a far worse and escalating state than we are, where every ventilator they can possibly get their hands on would be essential? The Dyson models are not only going to UK hospitals, he’s producing more for the EU as well.

Doesn’t matter if you get 30k ordered if the delivery date is too late.

So, you’re privy to inside info about how long this situation is going to last?
Been tweeting dTrump, then?

Surely having UK suppliers as the main source would be preferable to joining an EU scheme

surely we could do both

and the fact that the government have spent the last few days lying about being in the scheme or not makes it all look like a bollox PR stunt for the easily led

#QuestionTime I work for one of the world’s biggest manufacturers of ventilators and the UK govt have ordered only 350 vents from us but 10000 non-existing and untested vents from Dyson. How can this be right?

— Weyaye Man (@b32847703) March 26, 2020

I would hope that everyone is able to recall that as of January this year the NHS had 40’000 nurse vacancies.

Build as many vents as you can, getting people capable of using them is the real issue…

kimbers – the weyaye man twitter post, without more detail, cannot be verified and I would not rely on it.

There has been a minimum spec developed for this crisis. Its a much less sophisticated machine than the usual stuff but its the minimum useful spec

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-ventilator-supply-specification/rapidly-manufactured-ventilator-system-specification

Thanks for that, TJ. As an engineer with not much medical knowledge, it’s really interesting to see how pragmatic it is, I’m pleased to see somebody in Government understands risk. It also shows just how complex a ventilator is, even a stop-gap simplified one.

10,000 untested ventilators ordered from a Tory voting, leave backing, Johnson supporter …. looks like we have a cronyvirus outbreak.

So, you’re privy to inside info about how long this situation is going to last?
Been tweeting dTrump, then?

Obviously not and I’d not claimed to either. What I was getting at is that the existing manufacturing capacity is already at unprecedented levels of demand (someone might correct me on that?). So any lead time for delivery is likely to longer even with accelerated manufacturing. Unless something fairly dramatic is done.

Surely having UK suppliers as the main source would be preferable to joining an EU scheme when EU countries are in a far worse and escalating state than we are, where every ventilator they can possibly get their hands on would be essential? The Dyson models are not only going to UK hospitals, he’s producing more for the EU as well.

Although I agree with the rest of your post. Except to say that I ‘think’* it’s preferable to try all procurement options.

*in a strictly unqualified “thinking” way, just to be clear

That a Twitter post, any evidence it’s real? Or at least giving an honest view?

10,000 untested ventilators ordered from a Tory voting, leave backing, Johnson supporter …. looks like we have a cronyvirus outbreak.

Good one 🙂

Not sure we actually need jokes 🙁

The whole thing has a sort of weird ealing comedy feel to it.

Ignore impending disaster on other side of world despite warnings,refuse to accept an offer for help,then come up with an excuse for it as only a complete and utter fckwit wouldn’t accept,place order for non existing kit by a renowned vacuum maker whilst ignoring current manufacturers then sorta say they haven’t placed an order then promptly all get infected.

Course to not panic you say it’s all going as planned 🙂

That a Twitter post, any evidence it’s real? Or at least giving an honest view?

FT has spoken to several companies who are saying exactly the same thing

https://www.ft.com/content/f9051f66-cfbe-4b36-848e-3980225ae542

Personally I think that the government want to be seen to be acting & reassuring people, so they go for these big headline grabbing fibs.

Matt Hancock has been caught out lying about the EU scheme & working with supermarkets recently.

It looks to me that they are overwhelmed & in chaos, but trying to hide it.

I genuinely believe that the government have got so used to lying that they do it automatically, there’s no opposition to hold them to account & politics has become a culture war, you can lie as much as you like & your voters don’t care. Even in a crisis like this.

Yeah Johnson was lying

Yes – I was in Brussels for that meeting: officials said UK was invited to participate but declined. Switzerland and Norway did https://t.co/rsCqY8aoOh

— seanwhelanRTE (@seanwhelanRTE) March 27, 2020

And the offer is still open

Glad we have this clarity. Now let’s just do it. No more games. https://t.co/tQfN7ZNW6Z

— Layla Moran 🔶🕊️ (@LaylaMoran) March 27, 2020

Surely having UK suppliers as the main source would be preferable to joining an EU scheme when EU countries are in a far

Jesus. We are all in the shit here and need to be working together on this instead of competing for or hoarding resources.

This is also going to tear through poorer countries, so if we build capacity and supplies now then it’s going to be a good thing, because they are going to need all the help we can give.

So Johnson said we can’t participate in the EU scheme because we’re out of the EU, even tho EU said we can still be part of it.
While Hancock says we didn’t because we missed the deadline?
Brexit pigheadedness or just incompetence?

Criminal incompetence from Tory ministers, putting Brexit “get it done” stupidity in to practice on a grand scale.
Only time will tell if it has cost additional lives. Hanging on to the coat-tails of a joint procurement exercise had to be the right thing to do in the formal transitional period but no, get your mate to scratch build one. You really couldn’t make it up.

GTech have been told to stand down by the way. Their kit is not required…

https://www.malverngazette.co.uk/news/18341698.worcesters-gtech-told-not-produce-much-needed-ventilators-government-chief-executive-says/

Thank you @kimbers

Behind a pay wall but thank you regardless

Oh, maybe this is the fix …

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/mar/27/donald-trump-the-first-thing-boris-johnson-said-to-me-is-we-need-ventilators-video

piemonster
Subscriber
Thank you @kimbers

Behind a pay wall but thank you regardless

if u sregister up you get some free articles

I’m really unclear why HMG hasn’t just encouraged precision manufacturers to license existing designs that we know work.

Looking at the spec, I wouldn’t describe a pressure support mode as optional and that’s the bit that’s hardest to make work.

Boris now the first PM to act upon the guidelines of a certain Mr Heath Robinson…

I don’t know who is being truthful; do you?

Based on a long history of past behaviour, unless he has completely changed character in the last few weeks, we can assume Boris Johnson is lying.

If you’re serious about delivering ventilators that keep people alive, you throw money at existing suppliers to help them ramp up production, and engage Chinese manufacturers who have the skills, the complete supply chain and proven ability to retool and manufacture products fast. You don’t announce a publicity stunt with Dyson and pin your hopes on untested, novel designs when you need reliale life saving equipment now.

The lies from Twatt_Hancock are just the tip of the iceberg. The govt response has been sloppy from the start. Why does anyone trust them?

The lies from Twatt_Hancock are just the tip of the iceberg.

I’m taking his reporting of being infected with a large pinch of salt. He’s that unreliable.

Oh, and if you’re going to lie about being invited to join an EU group don’t publicise it on Question Time!

I read the post by grtdkad^^^ about gov telling Gtech to stand down with incredulity.
Does anyone know more about this? Specifically, why?

Another article about procurement of ventilators with a focus on profiteering and unreliable product performance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52074862

Has anyone confirmed that the Gtech ventilator would actually be effective for supporting Coronavirus patients?

Unlikely that gov would have said ‘yes’ without being sure the GTech ventilator would work.

Matt Hancock is a proven mendacious liar

I suspect your average snake has a more stringent moral code than he does

Even I don’t think he’d make this up.

If it wasn’t for the fact that Raab is next in line, having Johnson & Hancock away from organisation might well be better for the country during this crisis