Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 158 total)
  • Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Ahh but putting out the message you’ve ordered 10,000 from that familiar name Dyson name reassures the public everything’s going to be fine.

    dantsw13
    Member

    Yes, I saw that. I’m amazed they’ve turned down ANY offer, including the EU one.

    That guy on newsnight also said he is supplying kit for the Nightingale- sounds like a lot more than 4000 camp beds in a conference hall. Rumours of another one in .Manchester, plus one in Birmingham.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    If it works well enough to keep people alive, even just to buy time to get them on to a “proper” ventilator, I really don’t care if it’s been made by Rolls Royce or Fisher Price

    homerun
    Member

    Apparently so, seems a tad stupid to turn down the offer of getting your hands on more ventilators for the pile as opposed to some currently not existing ones.

    The EU ones dont exist either (yet). We’re just not joining the procurement plan.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-medical-equipment-eu-brexit-a9424631.html

    It’s anybody’s guess which route would get us more ventilators the quickest.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I really don’t care if it’s been made by Rolls Royce or Fisher Price

    You should care if those in a position to deliver soon are passed over for someone who may deliver later… for political reasons… you know, Tory donor, Johnson backer, Vote Leave backer. Any delay will cost lives.

    Anyway, lots of sources planned, not just the one headline grabber.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Excellent news. Hopefully us Brexiteers will get first dibs on them.

    But youll refuse the EU nurses to run them obvs? 😜

    Not helping to expand existing suppliers makes this seem more like a headline grabbing gimmick (like the offer of home antibody test kits), surely a machine that NHS staff are already familiar with & known to work safely already is better than untested & unproven design, even if it is possibly simpler
    Especially as we are just weeks away from the peak, would they be ready too late

    Whilst refusing to join the EU consortium seems tragically petty.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    I bet if your down to the last bog roll you’d order from more than one supplier if the delivery dates were both vague 🙂

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Latest update from my colleagues at big London hospital is that they are still desperately short of PPE, as well as ventilators.

    Trying to find out how to sterilise & reuse old PPE , which can’t be right!

    mashr
    Member

    Errrmmmmm

    Even the minimum spec one is a pretty complex bit of kit. A full modern vent is very sophisticated. they also have to be robust as nurses are notorious for breaking stuff and reliable.

    I think you’re underestimating the technological starting point of a lot of the companies involved here

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Not at all – just posted that in relation to the person who said they were simple bits of kit. they are not even the new minimum spec one is still pretty complex

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Subscriber

    The other thing about going with the EU, would that result in greater demand from fewer sources reducing overall supply?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    No -IMO it would give greater supply with more flexibility – we might be able to manufacture more left handed widget but be short of righthanded ones. Germany the opposite. By combining we can make more

    its the usual tory ideology over anything else including lives. Johnson has to beat Mays record for the number of citizens killed without need. this is one of the ways he can do that

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Trying to find out how to sterilise & reuse old PPE , which can’t be right!

    Yep it wasn’t just ventilators it was the other stuff as well that need, which is why I’m er shocked they turn down the help.

    poly
    Member

    Yes, I saw that. I’m amazed they’ve turned down ANY offer, including the EU one.

    I assume, but might be wrong, that if you are signed up to the EU scheme you are agreeing that you don’t try to source outside that scheme / you agree to share any you do source elsewhere with the rest of the EU?

    God forbid we share anything.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    That “hopes” in the Dyson statement is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

    Flaperon
    Member

    I loathe James Dyson and what he stands for, but I think it was a sensible approach in this case.

    Dyson has experience in injection moulding along with electronic airflow control. The electronics in their fan modules are reprogrammable so they don’t need to make significant design changes to reuse them. They also have a fairly large team of UK-based engineers.

    Apart from the fact that I’m sure his biggest priority is getting the word DYSON emblazoned on the front of any units, it is more likely to succeed than the more random approach of millions of different parts being produced by 3D printers across the country.

    His biggest problem may be getting the things from China to the UK once manufacturing is complete.

    Premier Icon peteimpreza
    Subscriber

    “His biggest problem may be getting the things from China to the UK once manufacturing is complete.”

    Nope they are being built in the UK

    I don’t think it would be a particularly tall order for BOC, Linde or whoever else in the incestuous owned by everyone gas industry to install a cryo tank and bottle farm wherever it needs to go. Ours at work is a tank, a pump (with nitrogen sparging above the gearbox) and a bottle farm followed by a pressure reducing station. It’s going to be easier to grab medical grade than the stuff we use as well.

    Gtech have nailed it. And they built my son’s favourite electronic toy 20 years ago (a spelling frog if you want to know).

    Doubt that. Maybe Vtech did though. 😉

    Premier Icon white101
    Subscriber

    SquirrelKing – your making an assumption on BOC/Linde/Praxair (whatever they are called this week) to have something in the UK that works and is serviceable for the purpose.
    14 years at BOC Healthcare and every day was a miracle we supplied who we did.

    Biggest issue has always been lack of capital investment in cylinders, filling plants and maintenance. One of the biggest crisis facing healthcare from BOC’s point of view for the last 10 years was the plant that created Entonox has been on its knees.

    I’d like to think they would do the decent thing, but my years tell me that somewhere the board will be rubbing their hands together Monty Burns style.

    avdave2
    Member

    It’s all gone a bit Apollo 13 hasn’t it. Can we look forward to Tom Hanks playing James Dyson in the move when it’s all over?

    johnx2
    Member

    The electronics in their fan modules are reprogrammable

    Switch suck to blow?

    Premier Icon TiRed
    Subscriber

    Doubt that. Maybe Vtech did though

    You’re right and obviously my age.

    Rumours of another one in Manchester, plus one in Birmingham.

    I don’t want rumours. I want to know that they have already started. I consider it derogation not to.

    Ahh but putting out the message you’ve ordered 10,000 from that familiar name Dyson name reassures the public everything’s going to be fine.

    Not anyone who’s owned one of their failing machines, surely? The Gtech is mechanical, not electrical (ease of manufacture), now that’s a robust design with a couple of CMC parts to bolt together with conventional medical syringes. Every country with limited heathcare facilities can’t ignore that and will want them. And the plans are public domain.

    dantsw13
    Member

    It was put to Zidawi on NN last night and he refused to comment. I guess there’s no point buying 30000 ventilators with nowhere to put them, so it would make sense.

    All the wards/beds the NHS has lost over recent years – do they physically exist?

    Do we have “ghost wards” and stacks of mothballed beds?

    Premier Icon P-Jay
    Subscriber

    So we’re nowhere near the worst of it yet 🙁

    Not “nowhere near” we’re due to get to the worst of if any day. We’re bracing for the ‘Virus Surge’ – thousands, even hundreds of thousands of people already have the virus. Hopefully 9 days since we were first asked to Social Distance ourselves everyone who caught it prior to that are already showing symptoms and are either ill in hospital or recovering (vast majority will not get that ill, some won’t even know they’ve got it) so less people are still in that incubation period.

    You might have seen in the News when countries suddenly have thousands of new cases in 1 day, in reality that’s ‘just’ thousands of people with symptoms worth testing / reporting.

    We can expect to see 2 surges, 1 surge in people with it, and then sadly a surge in deaths before it starts to fall again.

    It might be worth taking some heart from the fact we no long seem to be “2 weeks behind Italy” our ‘curve’ might just be flatter, might be luck, might be a one-off, but at the moment we’ve stopped tracking their curve.

    Anyway, back on Ventilators, maybe Dyson will save the day, but I fear that it will be too late and the NHS will end up with 10k spare Ventilators a month too late. We’re likely to need them in days, not weeks, I think the better prayer is for a flatter curve now than a load of extra ventilators arriving in time.

    Premier Icon wobbliscott
    Subscriber

    Why would you loathe Dyson? What a strange thing to proclaim – loathing someone you don’t know, never met or know much about. His business model is no different to almost all others out there…keep the engineering and R&D in the UK and mass production abroad. He supported Brexit…so what…just a different opinion to yours…what makes you think your opinions are better or more correct than anyone else? Other than that he’s a self made man, an inspirational entrepreneur..you know the sort of person we need in a crisis like this and in the crisis that face us long after Coronavirus has gone…like fixing the climate. But of course mr GTec is OK even though his products are made in China and he was also a brexiteer.

    Even the minimum spec one is a pretty complex bit of kit. A full modern vent is very sophisticated. they also have to be robust as nurses are notorious for breaking stuff and reliable.

    The complete product is sophisticated… the component parts are not. Anybody with a CNC machine can machine a part, or a mould for an injection moulding machine, the magic happens when all the component parts come together to make the product. This is just about manufacturing capacity. A jet engine is made of tens of thousands of component parts each one not particularly extraordinary in their own right (well most), but when they’re all bolted together extraordinary things happen.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    He supported Brexit…so what…just a different opinion to yours…what makes you think your opinions are better or more correct than anyone else

    brexiteers took away peoples EU citizenship, against their wishes, more than just an opinion

    turning Brexit into a culture war was a great way to polarise the country & get 1/2 of us to vote for it, but when you want national unity afterwards, even in a crisis, its not that easy to put it back in the box

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    So we’re nowhere near the worst of it yet 🙁

    This is how I see it

    I was with students Thursday last week (3000 people on 1 building). So might well have been exposed.

    I also had a small chance of catching friday as I went to a shop and went to work but with no students. But i was in a room with 30 people.

    So I’m just over the peak for being likely to show symptoms. But round the country there will be people getting I’ll having caught it before the lock down.

    The next big surge is that odds on everyone who now has it at least infects everyone else in their house. It’s at least a week until that comes through. Only after that can the lock down have an impact

    But most of use aren’t ill. That’s the way it has to be. Even 1% of us will overwhelm the system

    That’s not clear; it says UK not joining Brussels scheme but does not state ‘not buying from EU countries’.
    The NHS will buy wherever they can – and would be irresponsible not to.

    The gov refusing to joing the scheme will put us further down the list in terms of customer priority for a range of products from ventilators right through to face masks.

    It’s **** stupid, the government refusing to get in contact with MEC is also **** crazy.

    SquirrelKing – your making an assumption on BOC/Linde/Praxair (whatever they are called this week)

    You’re right, it’s just an assumption. I’ll defer to your better (bitter?) knowledge of the industry. Sadly what you say doesn’t surprise me really.

    Premier Icon white101
    Subscriber

    Squirrel king, might have been a little bitter 5 years ago, not so much now 🙂
    Former colleagues tell me nothing much has changed however.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    CountZero
    Member

    I’m sure Dyson also have access, either here or abroad, to the resources to make it, like injection moulding kit.

    Yes, at his new engineering place at Hullavington, in a pair of old RAF hangars that were also previously used for parachute packing.
    Dyson bought the airfield and a chunk of its infrastructure to develop his electric car project, which he’s abandoned, but the R&D and engineering is all there, and he has access to huge numbers of his tiny electric motors, so it looks like Dyson has no problem getting this ventilator system into production.
    On a similar note, it seems that a design company has created a valve system called the Charlotte Valve, that can be 3D printed and fitted into a Decathlon scuba mask!
    I love this sort of hack, repurposed existing kit that’s readily available into something for an emergency using a 3D printed part that can be printed off by anyone with access to an appropriate printer using free software.
    https://www.yankodesign.com/2020/03/26/a-clever-3d-printed-component-is-helping-decathlon-turn-scuba-masks-into-ventilators/

    crikey
    Member

    Unfortunately not any use at all in the current situation.
    Non Invasive Ventilation is good for people with mild to moderate respiratory failure, but every time you remove the mask, or the pissed off patient removes the mask, or the patient needs to eat, or drink, the whole room and whichever nurse is in there gets showered with a load of nice warm moist virusy air…

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    So Johnson said we can’t participate in the EU scheme because we’re out of the EU, even tho EU said we can still be part of it.

    While Hancock says we didn’t because we missed the deadline?

    Brexit pigheadedness or just incompetence?

    Premier Icon eskay
    Subscriber

    They are still f’ing lying about Europe

    Premier Icon argee
    Subscriber

    Have to say, it sounds good, but 10,000 ventilators that haven’t even been prototyped yet with delivery beginning in April sounds very optimistic, yes you can create prototypes, you can even start production, but how the hell do you do your validation and verification trials in such short order, how do you put in place a high level of quality control for a product that isn’t really understood as of yet, reliability in this type of system needs to be very high, is an unproven design, using an unproven manufacturing facility and so many unknowns.

    This is a very high risk venture, build to print would be a lot easier to sell than a whole new design, by a single manufacturer, at a single unproven site.

    Premier Icon eskay
    Subscriber

    But it is great PR for both sides

    crikey
    Member

    Grrrr…

    Ventilators are not the issue; people to use them are. We will run out of people to use them before we run out of ventilators, even if we don’t make anymore.

    Ventilators are not magic wands; it’s wizards we need…

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 158 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.