I’m sure this will make you all laugh.

Turns out that in Liverpool they really don’t like signposting speed limits very well. It was one of those wide suburban dual carriageways with trees that are usually 40mph.. and this one was 40mph but had apparently changed to a 30mph, dark, unfamilar road, late night, long journey.

Arse.

I considered going back over it on Streetview and looking for repeater signs or lack of, but I suspect the street light spacing would probably spoil that idea.

£60 for pleading guilty isn’t it?

Puts kettle on opens biscuits and anticipates avalanche of condemnation 😆

Usually £60, the points and a stw ritual Internet flogging.

The emotional scars of the last item being far more damaging to your psyche than the fine and points.

I would like to make it clear that I thought I was sticking to the limit, and I did not in fact WANT to speed. I will not be complaining about the concept of speeding or the fact that limits are too low… I’d have gladly gone 30 if I’d known it was a 30!

Pretty pissed off about the points though. Seems I’m the only person on the road who actually sticks to the limits 🙁

Moral of the story – if you’re in Liverpool, do 30 anyway because most of those DCs are 30 and have hardly any signs, as I noticed during the rest of the weekend.

I’m not angry.

Just disappointed.

Anyway. If it’s a first offence, and you have not been on one before, might mean a speed awareness course for £90ish is offered.

I’d have gladly gone 30 if I’d known it was a 30!

But I’m guessing you thought it was ‘safe’ to being going 40? i.e. it’s not that you drive constantly and unthinkingly at the speed limit but this road ‘looked’ like a road your should be fine at 40 both legally and in terms of safety to others?

That’s the bit that does annoy me – the inconsistency of the speed limits. I’m happy enough just to go along with the rules I guess, but it is easier when they make sense!

Seems I’m the only person on the road who actually sticks to the limits

It’s just due care and attention that you fail on 😉

@molgrips – normal thing is to do the “naughty drivers course” = £80 I think and no points (assuming you don’t spend all day arguing and get failed)

Seems daft to go to the expense of running a camera if you’re not going to tell people what the limit is. You’ll end up catching people rather than slowing them down, what good does that do?

Everyone gets caught in the end, even those who “don’t speed”, it was just your turn. I wouldn’t fight it on the basis of lack of signs, but definitely point it out to your MP, or Chuck Norris, or someone. If they want people to obey the limit, first step is making sure people know what that is.

I can only do the course if I get offered, no?

I did think it was safe to do 40 yes. Surprised it was 30, obviously.

However I understand that there’s more to it than simply if I think it’s safe. I’m guessing they made the limit 30 for a reason of which I’m not aware.

@molgrips – normal thing is to do the “naughty drivers course” = £80 I think and no points (assuming you don’t spend all day arguing and get failed)

I did this and I’m pretty sure it’s impossible to fail. I base this on the evidence of my course where one rather aged and dishevelled individual spent at least half the time asleep on the back table. I say at least half the time as I could hear his snoring for about four hours. Didn’t have the heart to wake him up 😉

£60 for pleading guilty isn’t it?

£100 minimum now

Dual carriageways, where the oncoming lanes are divided with a barrier (of any sort) would be 70mph. If there’s no divider, then one has to assume that the limit is 30mph as it is classed as single carriageway.

If there is no clear signage, you must assume that the limit is the national limit for that type of road, 30mph in your case. If the road was in fact a dual carriageway (with divider) then you may well have grounds to contest the ticket.

Seems I’m the only person on the road who actually sticks to the limits

Said the guy who’s (maybe) just been done for speeding 🙂

molgrips – Member

I would like to make it clear that I thought I was sticking to the limit, and I did not in fact WANT to speed. I will not be complaining about the concept of speeding or the fact that limits are too low… I’d have gladly gone 30 if I’d known it was a 30!

Only time I’ve been caught, it was the same. Sat watching the speed camera van thingy, at 60. Got caught for 61 in a 50 zone.

Seems I’m the only person on the road who actually sticks to the limits

Clearly not!

@molgrips – normal thing is to do the “naughty drivers course” = £80 I think and no points (assuming you don’t spend all day arguing and get failed)

This – as long as you’ve not been caught in the last few years prior to this time. If you do get offered the course, then it’s worth doing for more than just a ‘keep points of your licence’ thing.

Molgrips to help in future no matter what the road ‘looks’ like if its urban and has streetlights its 30 unless otherwise signposted (I only found this out when my wife did the above mentioned speed awareness course)

Seems daft to go to the expense of running a camera if you’re not going to tell people what the limit is. You’ll end up catching people rather than slowing them down, what good does that do?

Yes I hate the way they tell you they have cameras and then dont put up the speed limit.

if you’re in Liverpool, do 30 anyway because most of those DCs are 30 and have hardly any signs, as I noticed during the rest of the weekend.

No signs + in an urban area* = 30 limit.

*street lights and houses

If there’s no signs, assume it’s 30, especially with street lighting.
Can’t remember the exact rules, but I think if it’s anything other than 30 (or NSL) then there will be speed limit repeaters spaced at 20s intervals.

But, yeah, bit of an arse when you didn’t mean to be speeding. Similar thing happened to me in Bala on the way to a mate’s wedding. Loads of delays, running massively late and came into Bala a bit too quick.
I took the speed awareness course option, which I thought was going to be a massive pain, but there was plenty of choice of times/dates and I even managed to do an evening one so didn’t take time off work.

It would be annoying to have to do the course too, being that I’m constantly arguing in favour of speed limits anyway.. but it’d be worth it to save on insurance premiums.

124 Edge Lane Drive, Liverpool, Westbound. I can’t find any repeaters on Streetview. And yes I know about the street light spacing rules, but seems harsh to signpost a 40, then put ONE sign up for 30 and then leave it at that, since if you miss one sign you then have to start noticing the absence of repeaters. Especially as the camera’s not far after the transition to 30.

If you couldn’t see the signs, how would you see a childs face other than stuck to your windscreen…..

😉

30 zones don’t have/need repeaters, from http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/speed_markings.html

Any road with regular street lighting has a default speed limit of 30 mph unless signs indicate otherwise. The entry to a 30 mph zone must be marked by a “30” sign on both sides of the road, but no repeater signs are permitted within the zone (on the grounds that they might be confusing if some roads had them and others didn’t).

EDIT: didn’t see that you’d edited your post to include this info anyway!

Never mind all that,did you get the Strava segment?

What chvck says. The national speed limit in the Uk is 30mph unless otherwise stated, if you are unsure of the speed limit you should assume its 30. The presence of street lighting is what defines a 30mph zone, unless there are repeater signs overruling this. Motorways have their own set of rules.

molgrips – Member

I would like to make it clear that I thought I was sticking to the limit, and I did not in fact WANT to speed.

Because “driving without due care and attention” sounds much better than speeding 😉

The speed limit is at 128 broad green rd, so you only get 0.2 of a mile between the limit and the camera anyway.

The presence of street lighting is what defines a 30mph zone

Sure about that? I think they have to be not more than 183m apart.

but it’d be worth it to save on insurance premiums

Not sure about that! looking around for insurance renewal lately and been asked that question. However, since I haven’t been on a course I’ve no idea whether it would increase or not

Surely your fast twitch muscle must be a mitigating factor?

Built for speed.

you only get 0.2 of a mile between the limit and the camera anyway.

surely 300 yards is long enough to see and process the sign and react accordingly?

The 30 sign is the start of the limit anyway – they could put the camera 30 yards past it – not the beginning of a braking zone.

surely 300 yards is long enough to see and process the sign and react accordingly?

It is, yes. My fault for missing the sign. Just not much margin for error in that particular spot!

go on, take it to court.

I can’t wait for that epic thread…

[devils advocate]

I think I prefer sharing the roads with people who see what’s going on at the side of the road and choose to ignore it than those who drive along in a visual tunnel believing they’re doing the right thing…

[/devils advocate]

@Alex – a friend was at a course where they failed a guy who complained all morning and they told him not to come back in the afternoon. The course tutor even told him just to stay quiet and he’d get a pass !

Worst speed camera abuse I head was on Lower Thames Street in London where the 20mph camera was before the 20mph sign and therefore in a 30mph area. It was an observant cabbie (who got a ticket) who noticed. Also saw a classic speed camera crash last weekend on the A3, massive rear end shunt right at the camera where clearly the guy in front had slammed his brakes on when the saw the camera.

Hmm.. I must be a terrible driver.

Was it Edge Lane ? the continuation (4-5 miles of it) of the M62 ?

Yes.

If you are unsure, look down side roads.

If there aren’t any 30mph signs on entering them, you are in a 30mph zone.

Hmm.. I must be a terrible driver.

you sound like most of the people on the course I went on. they all thought it was someone else fault they got caught.

Molgrips, I sympathise, it can be difficult to judge what the speed limit is 100% of the time.

Check and double check that they have all of your details correct on the ticket (name, address, car details etc), any error and you might be able to wriggle off.

[devils advocate]

I think I prefer sharing the roads with people who see what’s going on at the side of the road and choose to ignore it than those who drive along in a visual tunnel believing they’re doing the right thing…

[/devils advocate]

Or, just goes to show that when driving on public roads there is just too much information for humans (who are normally thinking of about ten different things at once) to process adequately. And the sooner Google gets it act together and we all have self driving cars the better.

No repeater signs in a 30 mols, the sreetlights are the constant reminder 🙁