The rules (at least for this) say you can be a vaccinator with zero clinical experience if you’re overseen for the first 3.

Are you sure ? That’s not the guidance we are working to. A PDG agreement has just come which has made things easier. Has to be a registered health care professional (unless the guidance has changed…again)

Thanks for the link @andyrm I’ve just applied. Fire service so plenty of first aid type experience as well as talking to old people! Worth a bash!

Nice one 👍

It’s easy to get focused on the “should /would/could” of the government’s handling of COVID19, but this evening is proof that there’s people who can help, who may not have realised they could – 2 new applications in a couple of hours.

It would be awesome if as many of us as possible shared the recruitment link on our social media etc. Imagine how many more could potentially be found.

Who are we looking for?
To perform in one of these roles:

You do not need to be a current NHS healthcare professional, as full training will be provided.
Please note, you will need healthcare experience for the Healthcare Professional and Clinical Supervisor roles – only vaccine specific training is provided.
You will need to show commitment and willingness to complete the appropriate learning and development courses as required, to demonstrate the right capabilities for the positions. This will include vaccine training, administration training and NHS statutory and mandatory training.
Working as part of a team (including experienced clinicians) and as a strong communicator with good people skills, you will be able to discuss relevant information with service users, displaying empathy and reassurance at all times.
You will also be expected to maintain and record accurate documentation of interactions between clients, colleagues, and other relevant agencies to ensure the smooth running of the service.
What will you be doing?
You will take part in comprehensive training including rigorous supervision and assessments for vaccinators. Once you are fully vetted and trained, with the relevant compliance and checks completed, you will be responsible for performing and/or supervising the following:

Set up/configuration of the vaccination station
Drawing up and preparation of the vaccine prior to administration
Vaccine administration, using the National Protocol
Disposal of clinical waste and change of PPE as per national guidelines
Adherence to infection control practices between individuals

andyrm
Free Member

Believe me, the application process has bedn rigorous and multi staged, there’s also then the 8 online training sessions and accompanying tests, then on the job training / supervision when you are starting.

Ah, not implying that volunteers won’t do as good a job as paid people; just saying it ought to be paid. If anything deserves it, this does.

As for it being a moral obligation to help when you can; good on you, and as an individual that’s fantastic but like I say it’s not a thought process I trust our government with. Because just about every critical job that someone gets paid for, can have the same thing said about it. Not enough teachers? Well, you over there, unemployed teacher- you have the requisite skills and experience to help and it’s your moral obligation to do so.

As for it being a moral obligation to help when you can; good on you, and as an individual that’s fantastic but like I say it’s not a thought process I trust our government with. Because just about every critical job that someone gets paid for, can have the same thing said about it. Not enough teachers? Well, you over there, unemployed teacher- you have the requisite skills and experience to help and it’s your moral obligation to do so.

100% with you on this! And believe me, I’ll be bloody delighted come election time to vote these useless **** out.

Definitely agree that there’s scope to misuse people’s commitment to society in any vocational type role – and I hope to God that this year creates some sort of change longer term.

Definitely agree that there’s scope to misuse people’s commitment to society in any vocational type role – and I hope to God that this year creates some sort of change longer term.

that would encompass our approach to at the least teaching and healthcare sectors over the past 20 years if not longer IMO.

edit: i wonder if this thread is panning out like the OP hoped? 🙂

Edit – ignore managed to find link

I genuinely think some sites and logistics should commandeered by the government, and staff on furlough brought in to help. Should go down well too with all the lefty’s on here

Good idea at a time of national emergency. Drive home that a functioning economy requires a healthy population.

Ah, not implying that volunteers won’t do as good a job as paid people; just saying it ought to be paid. If anything deserves it, this does.

If we insist on selecting from furloughed employees they are being paid, maybe offer a 10% top-up as an incentive, it’s the free-market way.

Nope. Every single cabin crew member undertakes theoretical and practical training in this and more, with annual recertification and pre flight randomised questions before every flight.

As I thought. Trained in injections not exactly experienced. Very easy to train people up for IM injections and the vaccine regulations and covid vaccine questions are straight forward though. So yes possibly not a bad idea if they are low on healthcare staff. Unsurprisingly though there’s been a big interest from healthcare staff helping out.

I registered, started the application, then it told me as I have no formal medical qualifications I need to apply via the non-nhs pathway. I can’t find anything anywhere for that. Shame.

I registered, started the application, then it told me as I have no formal medical qualifications I need to apply via the non-nhs pathway. I can’t find anything anywhere for that. Shame.

Bugger – that’s the link I applied through (I did a few years as cabin crew, hence seeing the link, there was originally a list of current/past jobs that they wanted), let me try and find an alternative for you, I assume something must have changed.

Heaven forbid we’d make it easy for people who want to help, to actually help!

500k have had the first jab according to the PM today.

Still like to see a graph, hopefully rate shoots up when Oxford/AZ vaccine available.

How hard is it to very quickly train someone to inject someone? I’m not knocking the nhs staff that do it, but it strikes me it’s one of their less specialised skills?

Can’t we just get the army to do it?

(Obviously I’d rather have the jab from Bella the unemployed Virgin air hostess than from some mustachioed sergeant major, but beggars can’t be choosers)

@tpbiker – depends on the injection. Low molecular weight into a muscle – pretty easy, my wife was sent home to self inject heparin after being shown once following her hip replacement. Higher molecular weight or intravenous – not the same.

I’d imagine that a lot of the requirement is about dealing with when it goes wrong rather than when it goes right. That sounds a but tougher.

P.S. I’d prefer the grizzled sergeant major as he may well have more hands on experience of field medicine. Hopefully his moustache won’t tickle.

I’d imagine that a lot of the requirement is about dealing with when it goes wrong rather than when it goes right. That sounds a but tougher.

Yep, just part way through doing a whole part of the final assessment all about anaphylaxis and negative reactions.

Have to score 80% in every assessment, got to admit its been bloody hard work. These days I’m in a global account management role, I’d like to think I’m pretty switched on mentally, but the amount of stuff I have had to learn as part of volunteering has blown me away. Just absorbing the relevant bits from the “green book” which covers all immunology strategy and procedures has made me realise how extensive the training must be for our full time doctors and nurses. Massive, massive kudos to them all. I’ve certainly gained a new appreciation for them.

I’d imagine that a lot of the requirement is about dealing with when it goes wrong rather than when it goes right. That sounds a but tougher.

Makes sense..

So then why can’t have a set up where you have the army sticking you with a needle, and then a team of nurses or folks that know what they are actually doing on hand to step in if there are any issues.

I’m assuming the amount of times it goes wrong is tiny, so (for example) 1 trained person to 50 vaccination monkeys would work per vaccination hub?

Is there any difference between route of covid vaccine administration, and your annual flu shot? Strikes me the latter would be a very simple process to learn.

It’s probably irrelevant at the moment as there aren’t actually enough doses for everyone, but there is surely a more efficient way of doing this, otherwise they will never get through every one.

So then why can’t have a set up where you have the army sticking you with a needle, and then a team of nurses or folks that know what they are actually doing on hand to step in if there are any issues.

It’s a legal thing, random people can’t just stick needles in to you to protect you, and to protect the NHS.

Besides which, we have been told the army can not help (national directive) and they cost a fortune, yes the army charge for helping out.

Is there any difference between route of covid vaccine administration, and your annual flu shot? Strikes me the latter would be a very simple process to learn.

Yes is the short answer. NHS IT systems are not great, your flu jab (if you have one is not recorded, apart from on your GP record) COVID is being delivered to prescribed cohorts nationally and needs a 2nd dose 21 days later of the same vaccine. Admin nightmare!

I’m assuming the amount of times it goes wrong is tiny, so (for example) 1 trained person to 50 vaccination monkeys would work per vaccination hub?

Well trained doctors have been know to get it wrong so far…

You need to adhere to social distancing, do proper consent, book 2nd jab. 75% of people receiving the vaccine are aged 80 or older, many in vulnerable categories.

It’s probably irrelevant at the moment as there aren’t actually enough doses for everyone, but there is surely a more efficient way of doing this, otherwise they will never get through every one.

It will become easier when there is a more stable vaccine. However many of the above issues still remain.

Ideas gratefully received though !

Yes is the short answer. NHS IT systems are not great, your flu jab (if you have one is not recorded, apart from on your GP record) COVID is being delivered to prescribed cohorts nationally and needs a 2nd dose 21 days later of the same vaccine.

Tough challenge but not insurmountable as with the ‘World leading Track & Trace’ somethings are best left to small local teams who know their area/patients well. Locally are GPs and staff are excellent.

Ive just applied through St Johns Ambulance to be a volunteer Vaccinator. Their IT looks a bit overwhelmed, but hopefully its a goer.

Obviously I’d rather have the jab from Bella

as with the ‘World leading Track & Trace’ somethings are best left to small local teams

The World Leading system that took 8 days to catch up with someone in my household? That one?

The exposed person was out 18 December and signed in with the app. Text on Boxing Day to say you must isolate until 28 December. In the meantime we have shopped (masked up and distanced) and visited vulnerable relatives (masked up and distanced).

I’ll not be holding my breath. Dido Harding can Get In The Sea!!

NHS Professionals reached out to me by email saying I may be suitable for their Non-Healthcare Vaccinator role after all, so Ive just completed their online video interview.

AndyRM – how long did the process take?

NHS Professionals reached out to me by email saying I may be suitable for their Non-Healthcare Vaccinator role after all, so Ive just completed their online video interview.

AndyRM – how long did the process take?

After the video interview, you then get an email a few days later to progress you. You’ll get a couple of links, one for NHS elearning (and FML the elearning platform is bloody awful! I feel for those who need to use it daily) and one for Sterling ID checks.

You need to do a series of modules and online tests, then download the certificates, then upload them to the Sterling site along with 3 proofs of ID, then the usual “are you a criminal” questions before it goes off for final checks, approx 10 days from there. That’s where I’m at now, so hopefully will be “live” so to speak in the next couple of weeks.

If you need a hand or any help (some of it really is quite unintuitive!), drop me a line and I’ll happily talk you through it 👍👍

The exposed person was out 18 December and signed in with the app. Text on Boxing Day to say you must isolate until 28 December.

In defense of the app, it worked exactly as it was designed to. The person testing positive can only trigger an alert in the app by entering a test result, so there’s always going to be a time lag.

I was actually quite impressed with how well it worked for me when a colleague at work tested positive. Alert came through quickly.

Thanks Andy – Im used to dreadful online learning!! I’ve got a valid eDSB check already, not sure if they will require another.

I saw this article about how quickly Israel are rolling out the vaccine .
We could learn a lot from them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/worlds-fastest-covid-inoculation-drive-israel-vaccinates-five/

The Oxford / Astra Zeneca vaccine has received approval:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

The World Leading system that took 8 days to catch up with someone in my household? That one?

The exposed person was out 18 December and signed in with the app. Text on Boxing Day to say you must isolate until 28 December. In the meantime we have shopped (masked up and distanced) and visited vulnerable relatives (masked up and distanced).

I’ll not be holding my breath. Dido Harding can Get In The Sea!!

Our experience was the similar, however the delay was down to the testing. Less than 2 minutes after my wife reported her result I got a text message telling me to isolate. (Already was anyway!) The delay came from waiting for the result to come in, which took 4 days over Christmas. Out of Isolation tomorrow, yay, I can go back to work…

It’ll be rolled out Monday. The race between the vaccine and virus will escalate.

Great news.

s there any difference between route of covid vaccine administration, and your annual flu shot? Strikes me the latter would be a very simple process to learn.

Just to pick on this aspect (and to give you a flavour of the task) GP systems (system One and Emis) are location based, so if you have a vaccine hub away from the surgery it will need a different system The Govt has decided on Pinnacle, and a different system Oracle in London (I’ve no idea why) No GP uses Pinnacle, it’s a pharmacy system, so no one trained, we don’t know how it communicates with Sys. One and Emis, or whether it even does. There’s no clear way of getting both Laptops loaded with the correct programme, and people who’ve got any idea what they’re doing with it trained…That just one problem amongst the Fridges, the extra meds, the personnel,  a location that allows 15 mins waiting after the jab in a socially distanced way, short stocks of the vaccines, the issue of the fact that it’s Old folk in the middle of winter, and don’t get me started on the on line booking system….

Thank **** the Oxford vaccine’s been approved frankly…

I am a registered nurse. I have to do extra training to give vaccinations and I would be reluctant to give this ( or any) as I know enough to know that the extra training ( to recognise and treat anaphylaxes) is poor and I would not be confident in giving it. the idea of non qualified folk giving this injection fills me with horror

sent home to self inject heparin after being shown once

I wasn’t even shown how to do it, just prescribed the prefilled syringes and I looked on youtube how to do it………………….

. Low molecular weight into a muscle – pretty easy, my wife was sent home to self inject heparin after being shown once following her hip replacement. Higher molecular weight or intravenous – not the same.

heparin is a subcutaneous injection not intra muscular the prefilled syringes have short needles to ensure this

As a qualified health professional I’m not scared by unqualified people being shown how to give the vaccine as it’s given in a environment where health professionals can monitor or assess those who have received it.

Would you feel confident supervising a load of unqualified folk giving and injection that can lead to anaphylaxis Drac? I guess you have a damn sight more experience in dealing with reactions than I have but I would not be happy to be in that position – responsibility without authority

Our training on managing these situations is pure rubbish

I am a registered nurse. I have to do extra training to give vaccinations and I would be reluctant to give this ( or any) as I know enough to know that the extra training ( to recognise and treat anaphylaxes) is poor and I would not be confident in giving it. the idea of non qualified folk giving this injection fills me with horror

To be fair, the anaphylaxis training module was not too bad – granted not as in depth as the senior aircrew training I did (which included use case scenarios for adrenaline, atropine and lignocaine, dosage and administration – all of which are included in the in flight medical kit). The people like myself who are making it through the “non healthcare” path all come from backgrounds with relevant experience, so while not traditional medics per se, are able to apply experience in addition to the NHS elearning elements that are the same as other NHS staff do.

Fully understand that you may not feel confident vaccinating, but believe me, there’s nothing to fill you with dread with someone like me operating as a vaccinator. I personally have dealt with 4 cases of serious anaphylaxis (3 times on the airline, one time since), delivered a baby, used a defib over the Atlantic (and yes the patient lived!) and assisted a doctor on a flight to do an emergency tracheostomy. I’ve got 100% faith in my ability to do this, and no doubt that my peers (who are preselected from similar backgrounds, emergency services, former armed forces etc) are too.

And right now, we need as many vaccinators as we can possibly get.

Mrs Nobeer has 16 hours of training to do before she starts vaccinating, she unlike TJ canny wait, bizarrely!.

Our anaphylaxis trolley has instructions on it laminated on the side and in each tray along with a defib and Ox.  I’m pretty confident I could get going on a patient.

Our training in anaphalaxis is a 20 minute crap computer training! I have never dealt with it professionally. I certainly would not be relying on a printed algorithm! I would want proper skills knowledge and experience. ( If you have this fine)

Legally as a nurse you would be responsible for the mistakes of the laypeople you ware “supervising” Thats the bit that fills me with dread. Its a personal position knowing my own knowledge and skills are not enough but knowing enough to realise this. People who are keen but lack the skills scare me