God and the Afterlife……?

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  • God and the Afterlife……?
  • Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    Sorry , but the concept of someone on STW having an open mind is hilarious!!

    chewkw
    Member

    jekkyl – Member

    Can you believ in heaven but not believe in God?

    To OP … think about it … (I have not read the rest of the threads)

    1. There is no creator God but there are many Gods.

    2. There is no all knowing science but learning beings.

    3. There is no such thing as heaven without hell because without one or the other we would not have existed.

    4. There is other explanations beyond that of Abrahamic faith.

    To answer your question.

    Yes, there is heaven but there is also hell.

    Can’t have everything you know … maggots go to the latter to be squashed for fun – squeal maggot squeal!

    😈

    Obviously FOG,you’re on here.

    Ro5ey
    Member

    For the fear of boring others who’ve heard it before… sorry

    Wanted to get my kids in the very good (turns out to be brilliant) church school which meant church attendance.

    Now it occurred to me at the time, I can either go to church with resentment (meant giving up sunday morning rides) and thoughts of it’s utter bobbins or go down there with an open mind as see what it’s all about.

    So some of it was heavy going and felt myself turning my nose up at parts of it ( Forgive my sins etc etc … I haven’t sinned what you on about ?? But it gets explained/you work it out for yourself) but some of it touched a nerve … the be excellent to each other and yourself bits.

    So the weeks past and then found myself feeling happier while I sat in there with my family around me then the old pie and liquor gives the mustard seed sermon and I think … “alright then, go on, lets do the confirmation course I don’t have to commit at the end of it… again, what have I got to lose…. Give it a try….”

    It was around this point I told the vicar I didn’t believe in God … maybe not the smartest thing to do when you’re trying to get your kids in his school… but what I did tell him was I thought there was more to life than a massive flat screen tele and a flash motor…. Guess I was already on my way.

    But here’s the thing …I still don’t believe in what I thought God was back then…. Strangely enough I’m not stupid enough to think there’s a sky wizard sitting on a cloud somewhere.

    But I have been clever enough to learn and found out myself, through my own experience, that God exists.

    And my life is better for it

    Peace out

    chewkw
    Member

    Ro5ey – Member

    But I have been clever enough to learn and found out myself, through my own experience, that God exists.

    Peace out

    Which one? The one who “created” everything? You are confused.

    However, if you believe there are many Gods then you are safe.

    You can’t have it all.

    richc
    Member

    I think I am in the God exists group, as I simply can’t believe in the infinite, which means that God in some form or another exists; as you can’t argue with physics.

    Some people on the other hand are happy to take the leap of faith and believe in an infinite universe. Their choice, and I don’t mind; just seems a bit daft to me, like someone believing in giving 110% percent…….

    Thing is with Science is the more we find out, the less we realise we know, so to say if science can’t prove it then it doesn’t exist is stupid as that assumes we already know everything their is to know, where in actual fact we know next to nothing.

    richc
    Member

    chewkw – Member
    Ro5ey – Member
    But I have been clever enough to learn and found out myself, through my own experience, that God exists.

    Peace out

    Which one? The one who “created” everything? You are confused.

    So you believe the Universe is infinite? If not, then yes their must be *one*.

    Unless you are in the group who thinks that nothing is something, so there was something before the big bang which may have caused our existenance but that’s a massive leap of faith, even bigger than believing in a ‘god’, or you are happy to *believe* the universe has no limits and will continue growing forever, which makes no sense to me

    gonefishin
    Member

    so to say if science can’t prove it then it doesn’t exist is stupid

    Most sensible criticism centers not on the existance of a deity, but rather the non falsifiable nature of such a claim and if a claim is non-falsifiable then I for one think it can be dismissed until such time as it becomes falsifiable. See Russell’s teapot.

    There is no doubt that many religious people do a lot of good in the world and that they feel their lives are improved by having their faith. This does not mean that there is a god.

    richc
    Member

    So why are we here then?

    Unless like I said you believe that the universe is endless, which is a massive leap of faith

    gonefishin
    Member

    So why are we here then?

    Why would you think that there has to be a reason?

    chewkw
    Member

    richc – Member

    So you believe the Universe is infinite? If not then yes they must be *one*.

    I am not a person of science nor a person of God, but I accept that there are people who are strictly scientific and there are people who are adamant of the “creator”.

    Both have their own explanations but I do not fall into any of those two.

    Unless you are in the group who thinks that nothing is something, so there was something before the big bang which may have caused our existenance but that’s a massive leap of faith, even bigger than believing in a ‘god’

    There is not such thing that can appear without previous causation put it bluntly. You have to find the way yourself.

    richc
    Member

    Because:

    The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the second kind are impossible.

    If the universe isn’t a closed system, ie: its just really mind numbing massive but not infinite. Then unless you don’t believe in Physics their must be a god, or else we don’t exist.

    Which is one of the reasons a lot of brilliant scientist throughout history had to change their minds about the existence of ‘god’, such as Newton, Darwin and Einstein.

    It ain’t as simple as ‘I don’t believe, so it can’t be true’, your opinion (as does mine) doesn’t actually matter that much.

    jonba
    Member

    Because:

    The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the second kind are impossible.

    Statistical fluke. The universe is big. [Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.]

    It is the entropy of the total system that you need to consider so while our own entropy is something of an curiosity overall the system is increasing. Think of it as throwing dice. If you throw them enough you will get a random pattern on a large scale but you’ll get some strange sequences along the way.

    Ro5ey
    Member

    Chekwk…. guess there are still things l turn my nose up at. God the Creator beinging of one of them. But that don’t lessen my experience …. it’s not black or white… believe everything or nowt.

    Despite what peeps on here have said in the past

    jekkyl
    Member

    btw my question about slugs was to point out how ridiculous the religious concept of heaven is. Why aren’t animals allowed?

    chewkw
    Member

    richc – Member

    Because:

    The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the second kind are impossible.

    Summarise this into one sentence or you fail your exam. 😆

    If the universe isn’t a closed system, ie: its just really mind numbing massive but not infinite. Then unless you don’t believe in Physics their must be a god, or else we don’t exist.

    No, nothing to do with science or god. The problem is in our maggot brains for being incapable of processing information beyond our tiny parameters.

    Which is one of the reasons a lot of brilliant scientist throughout history had to change their minds about the existence of ‘god’, such as Faraday, Newton, Pascal and Einstein.

    They support or reject?

    It ain’t as simple as ‘I don’t believe, so it can’t be true’, your opinion (as does mine) doesn’t actually matter that much.

    It ain’t simple alright because our maggot brains play game with us.

    😆

    richc
    Member

    Statistical fluke. The universe is big. [Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.]

    It is the entropy of the total system that you need to consider so while our own entropy is something of an curiosity overall the system is increasing. Think of it as throwing dice. If you throw them enough you will get a random pattern on a large scale but you’ll get some strange sequences along the way.

    I’ve never heard of Physic changing when things scale up, down to the atomic level yes, but never as things get bigger; that’s one *huge* leap of faith.

    That seems to be like arguing that random keys in encryption get less random the bigger they get so are less secure……….

    Personally I believe in Physics, if you don’t, that’s upto you.

    No, nothing to do with science or god. The problem is in our maggot brains for being incapable of processing information beyond our tiny parameters.

    Not really chewk, Laws in Physics are proven facts or else they are theories. This is an observable repeatable event which has been verified by thousands of scientists around the world.

    Unless you don’t believe in the Laws of Physics?

    They support or reject?

    support

    chewkw
    Member

    richc – Member

    Unless you don’t believe in the Laws of Physics?

    I believe (X-file accent) 😆 But I don’t just because someone says so as I know we have maggot brains.

    support

    In what way? I think they have given up because they cannot find the answer in life their lifetime to their research so reverted to something … something … 😆

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I love it when someone takes a bit of physics that they clearly don’t fully understand and then add “therefore God” at the end 🙂

    CountZero
    Member

    FOG – Member
    Sorry , but the concept of someone on STW having an open mind is hilarious!!

    I refuse to keep an open mind, otherwise people just try to fill it up with rubbish.

    IanMunro
    Member

    I love it when someone takes a bit of physics that they clearly don’t fully understand and then add “therefore God” at the end

    I don’t mind that, it’s “therefore religion” I have issues with. 🙂

    FeeFoo
    Member

    It seems that people generally prefer an absolute.
    That’s why the religious are pretty unshakeable and the same goes for the atheists.

    It’s not an intelligent state to be in, no matter which end of the spectrum you place yourself.

    The cliche that having an open mind means you’ll believe anything is absurd. It just means you have sufficient confidence to have no need of an absolute position to feel secure.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Thing is with Science is the more we find out, the less we realise we know,

    WTF you are Donald rumsfeld and I claim my known unknowns
    We know tons of stuff compared to a 5000 year old Shepard trying to explain the world in terms of gods.

    so to say if science can’t prove it then it doesn’t exist [1] is stupid as that assumes we already know everything their is to know[2], where in actual fact we know next to nothing[3].

    If you want to criticise science at least understand it
    [1]science says there is no evidence [ objective verifiable data]to support the view that there is a god – it says nothing really as there is no data just as it says nothing about the spaghetti monster, unicorns, or anything else that is made up – there is no data there is nothing to study.
    What science says is a claim must be [ amongst other things]testable god is not as is anything else pretend/not real. The list of things you cannot prove to be false is limited only by your imagination and your ability to make sure it is not actually real- do you believe in all of those too?
    [2]If science knew everything we would not need science [ straw man and a non sequitor]

    [3] The claim we know next to nothing is overstating the case somewhat. Evolution is as true now as it will be in a billion years as will a heliocentric solar system – it is true we do know this. We also know the biblical claims re genesis are false – geocentric universe, age of universe, etc

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    but stop mutilating kids genitals, treating women and homosexuals as inferior beings, stop killing animals in barbaric ways

    Gross and maybe even offensive generalisation…

    and stop telling me I can’t exercise my right to announce that I think your stupid belief is, well, stupid.

    Don’t see why anyone would stop you…? You have a total right to your position.

    In return you are quite welcome to call my adherence to proven facts stupid, I really don’t mind. Atheism isn’t based on proven facts though – it’s based on a belief in a lack of proven facts…

    I don’t think I would call your beliefs stupid. What’s the point of doing that?

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    says nothing about the spaghetti monster,

    Now it’s crossed the line!

    Sui
    Member

    Elephant, that poster up there is bobbins, it fails to take into account and not limited to, evaporation cycles as well as moisture release from bodies, both breathing and when dead. Just goes to show that religion will always fail to come up with a robust answer/argument…

    5thElefant
    Member

    Elephant, that poster up there is bobbins, it fails to take into account and not limited to, evaporation cycles as well as moisture release from bodies, both breathing and when dead. Just goes to show that religion will always fail to come up with a robust answer/argument…

    Really? 😈

    Junkyard
    Member

    Gross and maybe even offensive generalisation…

    certainly easier to say that than defend religious views of homosexuality which are actually offensive

    Atheism isn’t based on proven facts though

    Indeed its based on the absence of facts to support the alternative – ie the religious have no evidence and this is indeed a major weakness in their account..well spotted.

    – it’s based on a belief in a lack of proven facts…

    proven facts are not beliefs and that is a proven fact 😯

    Are you saying it is a more credible position to believe in things we have no evidence of ?
    That is a limitless class of events – you are being controlled by a an invisible lizard from peru that speaks french and only ever walks backwards
    Mine is a dog from wales the size of kentucky
    Dont let the lack of proven facts dissuade you from this obvious truth

    I don’t think I would call your beliefs stupid. What’s the point of doing that?

    Very little but its still a stupid belief* you hold as there is no evidence to support it

    Would you respect my universe view quoted above or is it stupid?

    * its alos very rude and not something i would say outside of stw so i only comment as you have in general I do have more respect than that but the view is still wrong.

    Whenever I hear the live and let live line I think of this

    Homophobia & subjugation of woman: By default, all Jews, Muslims, & Christians.

    Do you really think this?

    Junkyard
    Member

    well god does but I think we all know many [western] followers largely ignore it even if their book and leaders dont

    So the comment “By default, all Jews, Muslims, & Christians” is false then ?

    5thElefant
    Member

    God doesn’t just hate gays and women.

    Junkyard
    Member

    ok ernie only the good ones are the bad ones 😉

    What did JC say about how gays should be treated? Or women? Just curious.

    I see what you did there junkyard 🙂 tres bien.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Very little about women and nothing directly about gays that I am aware of.

    Not scholarly/informed enough to fully comment to be fair

    Me neither, hence asking.

    Perhaps there was some much more important stuff?

    Junkyard
    Member

    A poster on here has a lovely essay on the gay issue – he is a baptist preacher iirc – and he argues that the fact that Jesus said nothing about it indicates that he deemed it unimportant and you should take his broad message of love and tolerance and say the Good Samaritan and apply this. However, unlike say an eye for an eye he never recanted it directly so its still open for debate as there is nothing of note.
    A similar view is taken of women in that they are more prevalent in the Bible than elsewhere but agian there is nothing one way or the other

    Spin
    Member

    With very few exceptions this thread is an astonishing morass of ignorance. On both sides.

    jonba
    Member

    I’ve never heard of Physic changing when things scale up, down to the atomic level yes, but never as things get bigger; that’s one *huge* leap of faith.

    No it is an argument of statistics not physics. The overall tends to one outcome but within that system there are chances that individual components will go against the general trend. So while we represent a decrease in entropy as we are more ordered than a random collection of atoms in general we are statistically insignificant both in mass and time scale to the universe. We are background noise on the universe scale.

    I’m intrigued about fission now. Surely building up of the heavier elements is an increase in entropy?

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    which are actually offensive

    Offence is a very subjective subject though. You are stating that a particular point of view is offensive as a fact. It may be offensive to you but not to someone else. Some people go out of their way to be offended by anything, other people don’t.

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