“it just seems really , really stupid to force someone travelling faster to slow down when its a hell of a lot simpler to just have good manners and let them enjoy riding their bike.“

similarly it is also good manners for the person traveling faster to slow down, adjust their line accordingly, and for both the descender and climber to both continue riding their bikes with the minimum of disruption, why does the climber have to be the only one to show good manners?

“It’s much more risk prone to stop a bike at speed than at walking pace, isn’t it? Does that concern you?“

it concerns me that the crux of your argument is that you can’t safely stop your bike should anything untoward should happen on a multi-use trail, yes

JoB –

it concerns me that the crux of your argument is that you can’t safely stop your bike should anything untoward should happen on a multi-use trail, yes

I’ve yet to ride trails with nice manicured little hard shoulders where you can safely and easily pull up to a halt.

Sorry I didn’t mean to start a post about dogs.

Should have rang your bell back at her!

Like pk-ripper said: “we’re all uncourteous idiots.

just because we’re on bikes doesn’t make us friends”

Same when driving etc. (Some us do say thanks-I bloody do!) but remember there is a reason for everyones rubbish behaviour and no excuse (She had a bad day but so what).

Instead of dwelling on what reason-ignore it and use the time you’d think of it by riding and enjoying yourself! ignore the dosuche bag 😀

Gnargnar – I’ve yet to ride a trail ( ecept playparks) where I can’t stop safely in what I can see

Well I feel slightly sorry for you. As folks have said above, we can all be “insert swear word” so it would seem best never to assume anyone is going to give way to you regardless of trail position.

I always assume everyone will do the most stupid thing possible. I hope they do the right thing and behave courteously and safely.

If you can’t stop safely in the distance you see you are either going too fast or you have rubbish skills.

TandemJeremy

If you can’t stop safely in the distance you see you are either going too fast or you have rubbish skills.

Well, I doubt you’ve ridden my local trails, nor I yours but I doubt they could be much different. That being said I can think of dozens of trail sections I ride on a regular basis where it would be difficult or just plain dangerous to stop once under way, in fact the only think preventing a crash is momentum in many cases. Be it a steep twisty piece of single track, a rock strewn descent, a slab of rock etc there are dozens of typical trail sections where stopping should be the last thing on your mind.

It’s not down to “rubbish skills” its the nature of the trail.

” the crux of your argument is that you can’t safely stop your bike should anything untoward should happen on a multi-use trail,”

Pardon moi, where did you get that impression? Do you know me? I think you made that up, didn’t you?

I think it would be great if both the descender and climber could adjust their line accordingly. It’s a shame though that some people think that as they are climbing, they don’t have to. Eh?

“Pardon moi, where did you get that impression?“

from this…

“It’s much more risk prone to stop a bike at speed than at walking pace, isn’t it? “

and this…

“Well I think it is more difficult to stop safely at speed, than when riding at walking pace. That’s the point I am trying to make.”

is that ok?

“It’s a shame though that some people think that as they are climbing, they don’t have to. Eh?“

as much a shame as the people who think that as they are descending they don’t have to, yes

JoB – Member

as much a shame as the people who think that as they are descending they don’t have to, yes

The rub though is that the people who are saying the descender must give way to the climber are claiming that unwritten rules automatically give them the right of way – regardless of context. 15+ years of mtbing and I’ve yet to be inducted into the secret society who decree who has rights of way on trails 🙄

Sorry JoB. I’ve always found it “much more risk prone to stop a bike at speed than at walking pace,” and “more difficult to stop safely at speed, than when riding at walking pace.” Perhaps you are using different tyres or something. Or maybe you are talking shyte, who knows?

Btw, have you reconsidered your approach to not giving way while climbing since it is equally as “bad” as the characters you have invented who will not give way whilst descending?

“15+ years of mtbing and I’ve yet to be inducted into the secret society who decree who has rights of way on trails“

well, if we’re willy-waving, i’ve been mtbing for 20+ years and and I’ve yet to be inducted into the secret society who decree that the descender has right of way on the trails

😕

Let’s put this simply:

If you can’t stop, you’re not in control.

If you’re not in control, whatever happens next is your fault, no exceptions.

Your desire for a few minutes of fun is not more important than another person’s health or safety.

People are soft, burstable and breakable when hit at high speed. Our trails are not an alternate reality where other people are disposable objects.

If you think you have a right to go fast down public trails without regard to other people or animals, then you are too immature to be riding without supervision, and you should go back to being a hero in your virtual reality games.

Some people here may find themselves on the wrong end of a common law duty of care suit if the worst came to pass.

“well, if we’re willy-waving, i’ve been mtbing for 20+ years”

And U2 have rocked the dullards for how long? I guess that gives them credibility.

Anyone understand the difference between assuming a right on a trail , and using common sense?

JoB

well, if we’re willy-waving, i’ve been mtbing for 20+ years and and I’ve yet to be inducted into the secret society who decree that the descender has right of way on the trails

I was being facetious. Put your penis away.

“I guess that gives them credibility.“

that depends entirely on your interpretation of “credibility”, and whether you can distance that from your opinion of their music, none of which is valid here really

and GNARGNAR started it, maybe his “credibility” should be compared to that of Simple Minds

🙂

“I was being facetious. Put your penis away.“

So was i. As you can see – my penis is showing its age

JoB – Member

So was i. As you can see – my penis is showing its age

Hang on…………………………..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Wait a minute……………………
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

No, sorry I cant see a penis at all. 😯

“that depends entirely on your interpretation of “credibility”, and whether you can distance that from your opinion of their music, none of which is valid here really”

I suppose that one could also say the same regarding your opinions and attempts at “argument”, since you have tried to qualify it through a claim of longevity, with no regard to content. Eh?

It’s not really valid here is it? unless you can improve on estimations of my riding down or along a decline skills.

GNARGNAR,

I feel that his penis is 40 years old, and purple anodised. I need no evidence of such a fact, but i’ve been mtbing for a loong time…so I know. End of.

As the Americans would say….”dont go there”. As I would say – that way lies madness. I’ll not be discussing anyone’s virtual penis or my own virtual penis or any real penises, at least not until tomorrow. When Im rested and refreshed and ready to face the virtual penises with renewed vigour and gusto.

Well I’m taking my redbullmonstertrucker phallus off to bed, hopefully to dream of common sense trail encounters with mature adults devoid of a sense of entitlement and willing to compromise.

i resent the purple anodised comment!

mmm, this discussion is going downhill fast …..
😀

Heres a thought: if you are going down something so dangerous that to stop would cause danger to life & limb – I think its highly unlikely you will meet someone coming the other way..So the argument about “momentum & speed” (although a valid point on some terrain) is a little hollow..I do think that if you are going so fast you cant safely brake in time to avoid an unseen hazard then perhaps you should slow down just a little, if only for your own sake..

2retro4u
Marin County, Cali

RepacK – Member
In the US its quite simple – the climber has right of way. Its posted at the trailhead & everyone excepts it. It certainly makes sense to me as well. If your descending then it’s easier to stop & easier to start, not so easy going uphill. Dont kid yourself its the other way round, just ask gravity if your not sure..

Found my long-lost brother.

Agreed. On the Tamarancho singletrack where I ride (you too, Repack?) it’s hard to get started again if you have to stop going uphill, and I always give way to the uphill rider, although the courtesy is not always returned. Much of the time I can pass another rider without either of us stopping, but the other rider has to be reasonably confident.

I have a bell, too, because some of the curves are blind, and everyone recognizes that sound.

____________________________________

“Anyone unable to come to a controlled stop on a descent shouldn’t be riding there.”

You don’t ever do corners or get air then? Fast or difficult sections have to be ridden through where braking is likely to make you crash. So yes, I can always come to a controlled stop – eventually.

It’s quicker and safer for the slower moving rider to make way – up/down/head-to-head/passing – it doesn’t matter. I always offer this courtesy to faster-moving riders regardless. But don’t rely on others doing the same.

“- I think its highly unlikely you will meet someone coming the other way”

… Nope. I can think of a trail here that’s a tough climb and a blinding (mostly) brakes off high-speed descent with lots of air. You do have to look for people coming up the trail because you need to plan braking a long way in advance

TandemJeremy – Member
Mr Nutt. Clean a climb – as in ride it without a dap. How else do you describe it? Its a challenge that gets me up many a climb.

how on earth does only wearing one plimsole get you up a hill?

(I call it “without putting my foot down” abit like playing “off ground tig” with a hill and a bike 😆

The ‘unwritten rule’ of mtbing is that riding too fast down a hill and ploughing into a family of six out for a hike due to your inability to control your own momentum is not good trail etiquette.

Surely no one needs an induction into the bleedin’ obvious?

Remember that the chap in the long hair at the high desk in court will not accept being in the air as a reasonable excuse (he also won’t know what hucking and getting phat air is!). In a public space you must rake all reasonable precautions to protect others from the results of your actions. If that means your fun is curtailed downhill, you’ll just have to suck it up. It will be there tomorrow you can always do it again.

So

Men with body armour and 40lb bikes are always right. Anyone else is wrong.

Anything wrong with that synopsis?

I would put it as:-

There are selfish folk who believe their “right” too go hooning downhill has absolute priority over everything and everyone else.

Usual shower of selfish idiots

we’re back to the ‘biggest ego has right of way’ rule again, aren’t we…

I’ve seen the light! The aggro boys rolling downhill are right, everyone must get out of their way! We lesser beings must bow to their superiority.

Now I’m going to get into my truck and do 90mph through town because that’s fun too. If I hit the bridge right, I might get some air, but those stupid pedestrians keep spoiling my line. It’ll be their own fault if I hit them – how can I be expected to change direction or stop when I’m in midair? 🙂

Surely no one needs an induction into the bleedin’ obvious?

I did a 6 hour ride at Hamsterley. One section was a really steep, narrow drop, with a fairly tight left-turn into a slightly steeper drop half way down.

The bleedin’ obvious thing to do there was to not start the descent until it was clear. So, I did.

Just before the turn, I came off and landed on the trail.

The guy behind me didn’t do the bleedin’ obvious, so he ended up riding over me and also coming off. I had to pull his handlebars out of a vent in my helmet, but luckily none of the spiky pointy bits on his bike had stuck into me. I had to drop out of the ride on that second lap.

If he’d left a stopping distance gap, I’d not have had mild concussion and he’d not have had to finish the ride with a severely buckled front wheel.

“Men with body armour and 40lb bikes are always right. Anyone else is wrong.

Anything wrong with that synopsis?”

Yes, it’s as wrong as

“Men in lycra and with bells are always right. Anyone else is wrong.”

Both could be attempts to denegrate the holder of an opinion, rather than debate it.