Bah.. Really gets on my nerves when you say ‘x is useful’ and someone else comes over all sarcastic with ‘how ever do I manage with a dogturd on a stick, you fancy pants young kids know nothing blah blah’. You can do whatever you like, why not try drawing in charcoal on a cave wall if you want to be really retro.

Fact is, OP asked about DSLR and IS is really useful in low light.

toys19 – Member

Yeah I’m not sure why you I should conform to your ideas of what photography is about.

I was trying to illustrate that the D40, whilst old is still an excellent camera, not necessarily giving you a critical insight into my photography ontology. One of the things that pisses me off about here is how people are happy to drop into insult and criticism that they would be unlikely to to carry out in real life.

Whilst I have been able to learn a lot because I have been able to experiment, there are also times (like with kids) when there is little time for set up or composition, just taking lots and knowing the camera will produce something good is a pretty great thing, and reinforces the fact that the D40 is a good camera for a beginner to learn on.

Blimey… 🙄 One of the things that pisses me off about this place is folks are desperate for your words to be full of insult, criticism and vitriol. They weren’t. I said how great the D40 was earlier, and I’m not having a pop at your ideas of what photography is about at all.
Whatever your approach is, more power to you…
I just hear people say that about digital a lot, and personally, I don’t agree that indiscriminate ‘spraying and praying’ teaches you much as a beginner(Which I kind of am). As you say, that’s just my personal approach, and I wouldn’t want to tell others to do it my way.
Sorry if I offended you…It’s only the internet.

molgrips – Member

if you have the approach of taking hundreds of photos in the hope you might get one decent one, you’re kind of missing the point
No, I think you’re missing the point. Photography is an art form, and as such we can do whatever we damn well please with it.[/quote]

Again, blimey…

To some of the comments above: camera threads are always contentious, as this one has proved

here’s my fuel for the fire… 😛

most people will only consider 2 brands however irrational it may seem… I’ve never fathomed any reason for it… they would not limit themselves to two brands for bikes or bike bits in their thought process for buying

Using terms like ‘spray and pray’ is a bit derogatory, don’t you think? By insinuating people who take lots of shots are in fact rubbish at photography, don’t you think that’s going to annoy people a bit?

One of the things that pisses me off about this place is folks are desperate for your words to be full of insult, criticism and vitriol

That’s not quite it. We don’t WANT to be annoyed – it’s a consequence of text-based communication. Without any kind of friendly body language or voice tone, people seem automatically predisposed to a less favourable interpretation of words. I do try really hard not to do that but you do really have to concentrate.

This is the reason why there are so many bitter arguments online (and it’s everywhere on the internet not just here). It’s not because people keyboard warriors trying to look hard.

most people will only consider 2 brands however irrational it may seem… I’ve never fathomed any reason for it…

Secondhand market and number/range of accessories/lenses.

molgrips – Member 
Using terms like ‘spray and pray’ is a bit derogatory, don’t you think? By insinuating people who take lots of shots are in fact rubbish at photography, don’t you think that’s going to annoy people a bit?

Point taken, but I didn’t mean it in a derogatory way, wouldn’t dream of it. It’s a term that a photography blogger I follow uses for that technique. Fro knows photo .com.
He’s quite amusing sometimes but I guess it can be seen as a criticism. Apologies.

Secondhand market and number/range of accessories/lenses.

That’s certainly a common misconception.

Not that this has anything to do with the OP’s question. Which is as you’d expect on a camera thread…

most people will only consider 2 brands however irrational it may seem… I’ve never fathomed any reason for it… they would not limit themselves to two brands for bikes or bike bits in their thought process for buying

We do with complicated bits though – Shimano/Sram, Fox/Rockshox, People just like to have the ‘default’ so they don’t have to worry about anything. Sometimes I’m happy trading convenience for some other reason (I have Maverick forks), but other times I just want the default (Hope hubs and brakes).
It’s natural and doesn’t usually give us too many problems – maybe just a little more expense.

molgrips – Member
Using terms like ‘spray and pray’ is a bit derogatory, don’t you think? By insinuating people who take lots of shots are in fact rubbish at photography, don’t you think that’s going to annoy people a bit?

‘Spray and pray’ as I understand it (or take it to mean) isn’t so much someone who takes lots of photo’s. It’s more to do with sticking the camera on continuous, pointing it at something you’d like to get a pic of and just holding the shutter down on the off chance that one of them will have the subject in focus and just where you want it.

You see this all the time at motorsport events – some people are very precise about it and will pre-focus the camera, follow a particular vehicle and then take the shot at the pre-focussed position.
Others just seem to hold the camera still on the apex of a corner and hold their finger on the shutter.

I suppose if the result is the same, then does it really matter? Probably not. People can do it how they want.
I get more satisfaction from trying to get a particular picture without just ‘letting the camera do it’, to an extent anyway.

I started off with a Nikon D70s and got some fantastic results, really chesp now too.

I take a lot of photos, but each one is a considered attempt to get something. I’m not going to spend all mornign waiting for a perfect instant of sunrise – that’s not what I’m aiming for generally.

The world around us is saturated with great pictures all the time, the challenge for me is picking them out. Getting the perfect landscape is a good technical challenge but for me it’s a bit too dull. Makes a pretty image but that’s all – for me.

I would probably have one or two landscapes on my wall, I do have a couple, but not the Colin Prior type stuff.

Sometimes I’m happy trading convenience for some other reason, but other times I just want the default

It’s a great shame though that people do this in photography. Other brands (Sony, Pentax, Olympus) have great innovative features but they get overlooked a lot just because people don’t have open minds.

most people will only consider 2 brands however irrational it may seem… I’ve never fathomed any reason for it… they would not limit themselves to two brands for bikes or bike bits in their thought process for buying

For me, I always thought it was about the glass, as much as anything.

You see this all the time at motorsport events – some people are very precise about it and will pre-focus the camera, follow a particular vehicle and then take the shot at the pre-focussed position.
Others just seem to hold the camera still on the apex of a corner and hold their finger on the shutter.

In my experience, the guys who REALLY know what they’re doing will know what shot they want to take, and of whom, and they’re like snipers – put themselve sin place, wait for the trget and boom, that’s a cover shot right there. For lesser mortals (like me! 🙂 ), it was a matter of choosing somewhere (like a corner or a jump) where people are doing something interesting and start shooting away. Not being a professional, I’d have an idea of what I wanted, but I needed to take some shots to see how they came out to work out what I wantd to change. Or, if it was close up of something moving at speed, it might take a while before I could get the exposure how I wanted, someone properly framed and the AF to get them pin-sharp. It’s just a measure of ability, I guess. 🙂

For me, I always thought it was about the glass, as much as anything.

Well it is, but all the manufacturers make good lenses. Funnily enough, Olympus make great lenses, but their SLRs didn’t do very well at all.

Fact is, OP asked about DSLR a

Actually, the fact is the OP asked about SLRs, not DSLRs and although DSLRs were mentioned, there was nothing exclusive in the post. Here’s the thread title

Giving an older SLR as a gift

IMO, anyone looking at cameras should think aboutfilm camera, especially where there is already access to a half decent digital. It’s about having an open mind and knowing what’s going to generate interest, and no technology for it’s own sake. And after all, a decent 35mm film SLR and a dozen rolls of PAN F is hardly going to break anyone’s bank, is it?

I thought the punchline was going to be ‘iphone’.

I believe Carlton Reid has had iPhone photos published in National Geographic 🙂

And after all, a decent 35mm film SLR and a dozen rolls of PAN F is hardly going to break anyone’s bank, is it?

Given photography is a skill mainly based on trial and error, the more photos you can take the quicker and cheaper, the faster you can improve. Hence, I’d go DSLR over Film…

IMO, anyone looking at cameras should think aboutfilm camera, especially where there is already access to a half decent digital. It’s about having an open mind and knowing what’s going to generate interest, and no technology for it’s own sake. And after all, a decent 35mm film SLR and a dozen rolls of PAN F is hardly going to break anyone’s bank, is it?

Film! Film is a hobby for aging luddites. Which is fine, much like steam engines and watching paint dry. Just not for normal people and especially not kids.

I bet the OP is laughing his head off at where this thread has gone!

IMO, anyone looking at cameras should think aboutfilm camera

Not for long. When I was younger the cost of film was a hugely limiting factor in what I did with my camera. Now, with digital, I can spend hours crafting the perfect shot if I want, or I can muck about with long exposures, out of focus shapes, anything. Whatever I can think of, I can do, without having to worry about the cost of film.

The beneifts of film are for a pretty narrow niche imo.

I bet the OP is laughing his head off at where this thread has gone!

Yep, I recommended a nice cheap (£110) starter digital camera with enough features to keep a beginner interested (Nikon P500). And I’ve learned quite a lot from this thread.

Main lesson: The world of amateur (and wannabe pro) photography is still packed with self-opinionated d*cks with more knowledge about equipment than how to actually take a decent photo.

I thought I wouldn’t have to hear all this garbage again! I worked in a specialist camera shop for many years, was a member of a local photographic society, became a pillock of the photographic community but eventually gave it all up and sold the contents of my camera bag and just bought a point and shoot compact camera.

But, as I stood there behind the counter listening to the waffle (pretending to agree), I thought to myself: At least he’s about to spend 2k, it’ll all be worth it. So windbags, you do have a use within the photographic industry after all.

Main lesson: The world of amateur (and wannabe pro) photography is still packed with self-opinionated d*cks with more knowledge about equipment than how to actually take a decent photo.

Have you seen all our photos then?

I’m not saying anyone spends lots of money. My point is that a cheap SLR is going to be better for someone who wants to challenge themselves than a compact. If you’d read many of the other camera threads on here you’d see me recommending compacts or bridge cameras regularly. Just not in this case.

I use an almost obselete Olympus that was £300 on clearance 4 years ago, incidentally, with a load of budget lenses.

Have you seen all our photos then?

Are you actually admitting to belonging to the group I described? Priceless!

The OP had a question. He has been provided with a range of answers. That’s how these things work isn’t it?

Dev, I don’t think your suggestion is the best.

Mol, while I see where you’re coming from with suggesting film, and I might have agreed with you a few years ago, I think digital might be more appropriate in this instance.

I agree with the people suggesting canon xxd series cameras (or equivalent from other brands). I don’t see a huge problem with canon xxxd series either, but the xxd are certainly a bit more ergonomic.

Here’s the kicker though – these are opinions and nothing more.

Mol, while I see where you’re coming from with suggesting film, and I might have agreed with you a few years ago, I think digital might be more appropriate in this instance.

See – even you’re confused

It’s going to look bad if I edit that to make sense isn’t it?

Turns out I agree with Mol then (though maybe not for exactly the reasons he gives).

Are you actually admitting to belonging to the group I described?

No, I’m not.

See my second post on the thread where I talk about gear not being important.. See the contents of my camera bag..!

Having recently used very similar cameras with and without IS, and with the same lenses, I can confirm it is useful. Just today for instance my wife took her camera and the 150mm to the kids’ concert, but it was next to impossible to get a sharp shot at f5.6 and 1/15. My camera would’ve managed it, with in body IS.

Just today for instance my wife took her camera and the 150mm to the kids’ concert, but it was next to impossible to get a sharp shot at f5.6 and 1/15. My camera would’ve managed it, with in body IS.

Only if you nailed the kids to something. Easter? Sure. Christmas? You’ll need a faster shutter speed.

She was sat still on a bench for most of it 🙂

IS might be useful, but if you turn up with this you get respect:

Depends if you are a pro or one of Deveron53’s wannabes 🙂

If the latter, surely this:

Back to the original question – the EOS 10D was a very good midrange camera in it’s day, but you’re looking at 10 year old cameras. I had the EOS D60 which was the model before and got some fantastic pictures out of it, but things have moved on a lot. With a newer camera you’ll get better AF, faster continuous shooting and a bigger screen.
Set a budget and get the most recent model you can find with a half decent lens.

As I mentioned earlier, I managed to pick up a Nikon D40 and also a Nikon D60 from London Camera Exchange.
They were both £100, though the D60 didn’t include the lens which I had to get separately.

Very similar cameras and brilliant for what they are but…. Which one do I give to which Niece?…
Currently I’m planning to give the older one the camera with the bigger numbers… That’s how growing up with older siblings works isn’t it? 😉

There are going to be wars in that house! 😀