juan, I hate to admit it, but that made me laugh!

I met Gordon Brown last Friday, seems a decent, honest chap.

Anyway the comment 'he chooses to have young guys in the firing line for politically dubious reasons', they chose to join the forces, they are not conscripts. The fact that they are in a war no one wants is irrelevant. This 'our boys are dying' thing does my nut in. What do they expect to happen when they join the forces, do they think it's all going to be running with rucksacks on and drinking games?

There are many things to criticise politicians for. Taking the time to write individually to the parents of soldiers killed in action is not one of them. Interesting to note that the fact he does do so has neither been leaked or utilised as spin of any sort.

Total disgust for the Sun, the Murdochs and Mrs Janes, may I suggest we ask vociferously how much she received for the story?

the falklands cost us 260 lives over a month and 240? brits since 2001 in afgahnistan

no death is a good thing but are we getting better?

I can't recall the last time I was genuinely disgusted at a news story. The Sun is a pathetic paper. Someone should have had the decency to encourage Mrs Janes to take some time to reflect before printing this garbage.

This 'our boys are dying' thing does my nut in. What do they expect to happen when they join the forces, do they think it's all going to be running with rucksacks on and drinking games?

Well said. A friend's colleague is in the TA and he has heard a few TA recruits asked why they do it to get the answer "I like playing the game on the Xbox and want to do it for real". Uh huh, OK…

do they think it's all going to be running with rucksacks on and drinking games?

I agree with your sentiment, but I think most of the armed forces would agree with you, its generally their families that don't see it the same way.

I can't stand the Sun or the tabloid press. I also don't like GB. However, if I made a mistake writing a Christmas card to my Nan I would throw it and get another one. If I made a mistake writing a letter to someone who's son had been killed, I would start again 20 times until it was perfect.

The trouble with GB is he has a personality defect somewhere, he just can't communicate effectively as a result. He is not up to the job. Doesn't make him a bad person, he is just in no way capable of being a national leader. He has no natural leadership qualities.

he just can't communicate effectively

Yes because being an effective national leader is all about having good communication skills like Cameron and Blair. 🙄

I have very little sympathy for Brown. But I care even less for the stage managing ****s at The Scum.

The trouble with GB is he has a personality defect somewhere, he just can't communicate effectively as a result. He is not up to the job. Doesn't make him a bad person, he is just in no way capable of being a national leader. He has no natural leadership qualitie

thats the problem here what your saying is youd rather have someone capable of winning x-factor than an uncharismatic politician

what are these leadership skills? does he have to personally motivate every teacher doctor and soldier in the country ? surely his job is to organise the various cabinet posts and let them manage their juniors etc

I'm not saying I favour style over substance, but like it or not GB is leading our country while it is fighting a war, and in order to lead effectively you have to communicate effectively. And it seems that everything Gordon touches at the moment turns to poo. It does not inspire confidence in the public, and gives no reason to believe that he is any more effective behind closed doors.

How a letter of condolence should be written

Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.

Dear Madam,

I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.

Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,

A. Lincoln

GB was reported to say sorry if you have been offended in their telephone conversation, not sorry if I have offended you. Seems the man cannot take the blame for anything, so if thats his attitude bad writing or not he deserves what he gets, he is after all supposed to be our leader (although not elected)so he should lead by example, if one of his minions wrote such a letter with mistakes like he did then I am sure he would be down on them like a ton of bricks. on 2nd thoughts probably not as our government to not believe in accountability.

sorry if you have been offended in their telephone conversation, not sorry if I have offended you.

wtf difference does that make? hes sorry thats all there is to it
or are you so blinded by your passionate hatred of the man that every word he utters is poison to your ears?

or do people really believe that a pm can be some sort of infalible perfect human

If I made a mistake writing a letter to someone who's son had been killed

But Gordon Brown denies the mistakes, despite accepting that his handwriting is very bad. And I am not personally, at all convinced that he did for example misspell her name – certainly his letters are badly formed, but that could easily have read 'Janes' rather the 'James'.

It's interesting to note that no other recipient of Gordon Brown's letters appear to have ever complained, even though their letters would undoubtedly have been written in the same style and also using his trade mark felt-tipped pen to deal with his poor eyesight.

It's also worth remembering that according to the Times "Protocol suggests that condolence letters should be sent within two working days of the death being announced" So obviously there is pressure for the letter to be quickly written, presumably late at night after the businesses of state have been completed.

It seems to me that Mrs Janes is probably and understandably, an angry and bitter woman over the tragic loss of her son. And I'm sure whatever Gordon Brown's letter had contained, it would have been completely unsatisfactory for her.

Unfortunately the Sun newspaper which along with it's owner has always supported the war to the hilt, decided to exploit the woman's personal grief for it's own political purposes. If the Sun is genuinely concerned about the death of Jamie Jane and it agrees with Mrs Jane's claims of negligence, why doesn't it offer to pay her legal costs so she can sue the MOD for negligence ? I suspect that is because they are fully aware that there is no case to answer – soldiers on foot patrol in a hostile environment are liable to get killed. Plus of course, it would make it look as the Sun was opposed to the war – and quite frankly it's hard to imagine something further from the truth.

or do people really believe that a pm can be some sort of infalible perfect human

It would be nice if he didn't **** up everything he went near.

He does get a hard time about it, and it's hard not to feel some sympathy for the bloke, but he is a **** idiot.

>The fact that they are in a war no one wants is irrelevant. This 'our boys are dying' thing does my nut in.

>What do they expect to happen when they join the forces, do they think it's all going to be running with rucksacks on and drinking games?

How about not dying in a war no one wants ?

How about not dying in a war no one wants ?

But the Sun newspaper wants the war. Don't they count then ?

There was me thinking Hora had become more "normal" over recent times but this is like a blast from the past! 😀

I can remember the fervent desire to go into Kuwait in 90/91, but apparently not the desire to actually deal with the issue of Iraq once there.
I can also remember talking with an American friend about the intention to go into Afghanistan in 2001 and wondering if our respective governments had planned what to do after they'd "won", I see now that this is the tricky bit – not just that fact that no thought appears to have been given with what happens after the initial war is done, but also what to do just in case the fighting never actually stops.
Oh, and GB, whilst being intensely uncharismatic on TV, I'm sure finds it as awful as anyone else to have to write these letters.

Just watching the news there – nobody should be asked to go through what GB was asked to go through there.

She on the otherhand is an arse.

'The scum' should be ashamed of itself, to me it's exploited a mothers loss and anger at losing her son to sell newspapers.

Ask any Liverpool fan of their thoughs on this scumbag excuse of a newspaper !

it's exploited a mothers loss and anger at losing her son to sell newspapers.

Not just to sell papers either, but also to engineer the election result as part of a 'deal' done with Cameron on Europe. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

can we vote out rupert murdoch?

Sorry, on a serious note I've never seen soo much crap written on one thread. Appalling to attack the Mother. Utter toss. Some of you should be ashamed and get out (and not on a bike) abit more into the outside world. **** all empathy.

Seriously, delete my login. Sick of STW and what its become.

May i point out that some thought should be given to GB for the loss of his son just a few years back. I am sure he feels every last bit of pain the Mother in the paper feels. To assume he is callous or lacking in compassion in this instance is to dismiss the grief he has suffered.

What does that say about his detractors in this instance?

Sure he isn't perfect – it must be the worst job in Britain to do – but how he doesn't crack under the obvious pressure he is under amazes me.
Put things in perspective and think and suddenly it all kind of seems not too bad that he mis-spelled something.

I am with TZF on this if we are picking teams! 😀

Seriously, delete my login. Sick of STW and what its become.

Mods! Quick Quickly.
Oh, just remembered, how many different logins have you had now?

Seriously, delete my login. Sick of STW and what its become

lol, nice temper tantrum. Do you lack the mental strength to just not come back?

Oh and make sure you rinse your dummy under the tap before you stick it back in.

Good point thebikechain, although to be pedantic is was his daughter who died. However, I agree that those criticising him seem to be conveniently overlooking this. Those who have lost children will know that it is an all encompassing grief that never leaves you, no matter what the circumstances of their death. Burying a child is something no-one should ever have to go through.

Hora, whilst you have spouted some shite on this thread you are right that it is appalling to attack the mother. She is being shamelessly exploited by the Scum and ultimately Murdoch to achieve their political ends.

Gordon Brown, for all his faults, is taking the time to hand-write letters to those who have suffered loss. Perhaps he would be better wordprocessing a slick communique which printed his signature and everything? Impersonal? Maybe, but it would please the presentation obsessed members of society.

Sorry – it was his daughter. Thanks for the correction.

Sorry, on a serious note I've never seen soo much crap written on one thread. Appalling to attack the Mother. Utter toss. Some of you should be ashamed and get out (and not on a bike) abit more into the outside world. **** all empathy.

Seriously, delete my login. Sick of STW and what its become.

While no-one knows in this case, there are plenty of people out there who would use it as a cash cow and see it as some recompense for their loss. Not everyone has morals, to NOT question the actions would be rediculous and myopic. You can close your ears and chant all you want, but people like that exist.

Have you actually read the transcript of the conversation?

I once saw a TV programme about a Guardian (female) journalist who spent a week working at the Sun.

When she had been unable to get the interview that she had been assigned, her mentor told her to just make it up.

She suggested that this would be unethical, to which her mentor (male) responded:

"Sorry darling, you have me confused with someone who gives a f*ck"…

Not just to sell papers either, but also to engineer the election result as part of a 'deal' done with Cameron on Europe. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

I agree. I think this has far more to do with the Sun's editor Rebekah Wade, wanting to please Rupert Murdoch who knows full well that his greatest rival in the world the BBC, is far more likely to come under attack from a Conservative government. And also under a Conservative government, the BBC is more likely to lose it's monopoly over the licence fee.

Everything the Sun does in this respect is calculated. Timing is crucial, and the Sun's announcement that it would be backing the Tories during Labour's conference was no coincidence – it was designed to cause Gordon Brown as much damage as possible.

Likewise the Sun's latest personal attack on Gordon Brown will have been deliberate and calculated. Jamie Janes died over 5 weeks ago, Mrs Janes would therefore have received the letter from Gordon Brown probably over a month ago. Presumably if Mrs Jane had been incensed by it she would have gone to a newspaper straight away – not waited a month to do so.

So it would appear that the Sun sat on the "story" for quite a while, and waited until the day after Remembrance Sunday and a few days before Armistice Day to break it.

It is clear that the Sun has cynically exploited a grieving mother and a nation's mourning for it's dead service men and women, to launch a politically motivated vitriolic attack and score some cheap points – and we complain about our politicians !

All this btw, from Britain's most warmongering newspaper, which of course is foreign owned.

Ironically the Sun's attempt to vilify Gordon Brown appears to have spectacularly backfired on them. Many people (with the obvious exception of Hora) who would normally be very critical of Gordon Brown, have expressed a great deal sympathy for him ** Indeed the Sun has even drawn attention to the fact that he writes personally the family of deceased service men and women. Well done 'My Sun'.

**When in fact rather than sympathy, Gordon Brown deserves to be attacked for constantly repeating the blatant lie that British forces are in propping up a corrupt Afghan government (which passes laws making it legal for men to starve their wives) to keep Britain's streets free from terrorism.

Seriously, delete my login. Sick of STW and what its become.

Ooh ooh… Why have I only just seen this now? Why did no one call me?

🙂

it is appalling to attack the mother

Presumably then the Sun contacted her on the off chance that she might have a story for them regarding her dead son? Surely its very much more likely she has precipitated this, and I'm afraid thats then her resposnibility. No argument that shes in a horrible place and everyone sympathises with that, but frankly her behaviour to date is not respectful to her son, who I suspect might well have been extremely embarressed by her behaviour. I for one, knowing personally how the Scum operate still have the smell of a cheque book in my nostrils. Sorry, but thats how they are.

Do it Mark. Go on, you know you want to!

🙂

Today is going to be a good day…

Mark – Administrator

.

Ooh ooh… Why have I only just seen this now?

Because you were too busy linking your text ads to an oh so very hilarious bunch of ****tters?

Can we swap him for Rude Boy/Fred?