Giro d’Italia Thread 2018 – Contains Spoilers

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  • Giro d’Italia Thread 2018 – Contains Spoilers
  • butcher
    Member

    I don’t really understand why Froome hasn’t come in at peak form, I thought previously he said his main aim this year was to win the giro to win all three grand tours.

    A potential ban looming over his head and the constant stream of negative feedback directed towards him? He can repeat over and over how professional and focused he is, but that is going to affect you.

    I hope he fights on and comes good in the TT. Still a good chance at the podium, but he just doesn’t look on it. He’s not had one good day.

    brakes
    Member

    He’s riding into form so that he doesn’t peak before the Tour de France, plus there’s still snow on the mountains – Froome doesn’t perform well in the cold. He likes it hot – that’s why he favours La Vuelta.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    He’s riding into form

    I see this a bit of GT threads, do people actually pick up fitness on these Tours then ? I’d have thought you’d struggle to due to the fatigue levels you end up with ?

    brakes
    Member

    That’s what the team coaches, journos and the commentators say. I’ve seen it with other riders in GTs over the years where they haven’t looked special in week 1 but have come on strong later. Having said that I’m not sure they’ve been 2 minutes behind like Froome is.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
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    I don’t really understand why Froome hasn’t come in at peak form, I thought previously he said his main aim this year was to win the giro to win all three grand tours.

    Maybe he needs to eat more… joking aside, the cumulative stress of all those three-month GTs combined with maintaining an artificially low weight can’t be good for you long term. And he reportedly did a series of huge rides over the close season, potentially in an attempt to reproduce the impact of a grand tour effort on his Salbutamol levels.

    If that’s true, it may have seriously screwed over his recovery from last season’s efforts. At the least, it won’t be what he’s done in previous years.

    As far as coming in ‘under cooked’, it’s pretty much what he did at the Tour de France last year. The theory is that he improves throughout the tour rather than going into it at the redline already and having nowhere to go but down.

    He doesn’t look great so far, but if he improves and the likes of Yates and Pinot fall off over the next two weeks, it could be interesting. Yates looks bonkers strong, but he can still have a really bad day and lose a bunch of time on a single big climb.

    Edit: ‘fall off’ was a bad choice of words, but that can happen too…

    Premier Icon edhornby
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    I think he’s found out that week 1 of the giro is more stressful than france

    he’s possibly mentally switched already to building form and going for pink next year

    Premier Icon manton69
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    I have not heard much comment about what he was doing through the winter that may affect his performance now.  He must have been doing a lot of work to replicate the stresses and dehydration that could potentially have led to the adverse finding.  If they are doing it is a systematic way then he would have to have replicate the stress that could lead to the high values found in his sample from the legal dose of Salbutamol.  I think I read that this was seen in some of the training he was posting and it may have impacted his performance coming in to this season.  As it was not a normal training regime and something different it may not have been as good preparation as he wanted.  Add to that crash before the prologue and he has admitted he has been having a lot of treatment for it then his performance is where we may have expected it to be.

    Having said all of that then I still think that Yates looks far better than many of the others and the team looks stronger as well so it may all have been academic.  It will be a tortoise and hare moment with Demoulin trying to gain all the losses back on the TT and it is still a fascinating race.

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    As far as coming in ‘under cooked’, it’s pretty much what he did at the Tour de France last year. The theory is that he improves throughout the tour rather than going into it at the redline already and having nowhere to go but down.

    The problem is that the first week of the Giro – and arguably the whole of the Giro – is more difficult than the first week of the TdF. The Giro doesn’t tend to have a week of stages designed by Cavendish where riders can get used to the pace. 😁 I’m sure Froome/Sky would be aware of that.

    I see this a bit of GT threads, do people actually pick up fitness on these Tours then ? I’d have thought you’d struggle to due to the fatigue levels you end up with ?

    I think its more if you come in “peaked” you lose it faster.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    I think its more if you come in “peaked” you lose it faster.

    You can’t maintain absolute peak form for more than about 10 days at a time so the trick is to come into a 3-week Tour slightly “under-par” and ride yourself into it. Well, that’s the trick for a GC contender, if you’re really good you can build a team of riders around you who are slightly shifted along that axis – some of whom start super strong and then fade towards the end, others who start really weak but finish super strong – everyone is somewhere along that timeline of the 7-10 days of top form to protect the team leader throughout the race.

    lapdog
    Member

    Go George Bennett! – a bit under the radar in all these conversations but generally keeping out of trouble and still well within reach. He admitted he attacked too much a few stages back but seems to have learned his lesson in this last stage. The TT will be his weak point unfortunately but great to see him playing amongst the big boys in the mountains!

    reggiegasket
    Member

    Some interesting comments

    dirtyrider
    Member

    chavez off the back apparently,

    Klunk
    Member

    2,24 back at the moment there’s going to be some tired legs riding like they are (not letting them get back on)

    Klunk
    Member

    chaves 10 minutes back from the pink jersey (there was some issue but I didn’t catch what whitey said) it’s now raining just what bambi didn’t want 😉

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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     (there was some issue but I didn’t catch what whitey said)

    Hay fever apparently

    Klunk
    Member

    you can get a TUE for that! according to mr wiggins 😉

    Klunk
    Member

    does tom have a back issue ?

    stevious
    Member

    Chavez can still win. He’s just riding himself into form.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    meanwhile, over in California ….

    Klunk
    Member

    another stage for Yates, Tom second and Froome 40 seconds back!

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    Yates wins again, 47 seconds up on GC, it’s not looking bad for him at all is it? Is there much TTing left? Enough to allow Dumoulin to pull him back?

    Klunk
    Member

    1 Simon Yates (GBr) Mitchelton-Scott 47:08:21
    2 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Sunweb 0:00:47
    3 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) Groupama-FDJ 0:01:04
    4 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Bahrain-Merida 0:01:18
    5 Richard Carapaz (Ecu) Movistar Team 0:01:56
    6 George Bennett (NZl) LottoNL-Jumbo 0:02:09
    7 Rohan Dennis (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:02:36
    8 Pello Bilbao (Spa) Astana Pro Team 0:02:54
    9 Patrick Konrad (Aut) Bora-Hansgrohe 0:02:55
    10 Fabio Aru (Ita) UAE Team Emirates 0:03:10

    froome 12th  3.20 back

    Premier Icon weeksy
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    I hate to be the one to ask, but, are we accepting this from Yates?

    Premier Icon convert
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    Nice work there.

    34km flat time trail to come – he could easily loose 47secs and more sadly. I reckon he needs to be 1min 30 up on Dumoulin as a absolute minimum to stand a chance of the over overall in Rome. Maybe more.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I hate to be the one to ask, but, are we accepting this from Yates?

    He has been progressing to this point for a while now or are you referring to his inhaler issue a few years back – which anyone would sensibly put down to administration/cock up rather than actual doping.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    I hate to be the one to ask, but, are we accepting this from Yates?

    Yeah, I didn’t want to be the one to write it, but… I mean his performance is exceptional, but is it “not normal”?

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    I’m not aware of anything historical with him, so just a genuine question really. He’s battering everyone day after day, which could be seen as slightly well, dubious? I’m aware he’s been at the pointy end, but not in a dominant context like this race

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I hate to be the one to ask, but, are we accepting this from Yates?

    I have given up caring and just take is on face value and leave the suspicion to those paid to be so. The alternative is just a waste of time to watch.

    Klunk
    Member

    34km flat time trail to come – he could easily loose 47secs and more sadly. I reckon he needs to be 1min 30 up on Dumoulin as a absolute minimum to stand a chance of the over overall in Rome. Maybe more.

    fortunately there’s the high mountains to come too, though Dumoulin is a much improved climber he rides to power (huge power 🙂 ) so struggles to stay with the explosive climber types hoping to wind them back in over the whole climb ala sky & froome unfortunately (for tom) his team looks a little lacking.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Yates does seem to be smashing it every day.  For all he’s a young man, you have to wonder if it’s going to give him a really bad day sooner or later

    Klunk
    Member

    Yates does seem to be smashing it every day.

    he does seem to be gauging his efforts well though, more opportunistic taking of the time bonus on offer than “smashing it” 3 well timed efforts have paid big dividends !

    besides there are 2 pan flat sprinters stages up next before the Zoncolan saturday will give him (and his team) a chance to sit in let qsf do all the work.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    I know what you mean klunk but, say, on the day when Chaves was dropped and the peloton rode at full whack pretty much all day, was it worth 3 seconds to take a hill sprint ?  (answer:  Yes, seems so – for now anyway).  Today a bit different, since DuMoulin had to race him head to head

    It’s great to watch an’ all, and I hope he makes it but I just wonder about energy conservation, esp if he’s now having lots of media duty instead of sleeping it off whenever he can.

    (Looks like light winds for these 2 coastal stages too, so no likely quickstep shenanigans to worry about)

    Klunk
    Member

    Interesting to see what sky do now ? is Froome a busted flush yet ? or is it all in over the weekend and smash the race to pieces (though the sky train hasn’t looked that good either)

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Froome a busted flush yet

    See the video above?  Does that looked like a motivated, energetic rider ready to smash the Peloton?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    though the sky train hasn’t looked that good either

    And this may be why reducing the teams by one is a good thing

    Klunk
    Member

    I’d prefer to be getting more time on Tom. He was really chasing me all the way to the finish there. He looks better than the other day on the steep finishes there. I think he’s getting better as the race goes on, and that’s not good news for me.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
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    I think for a young lad Yates is proving that you don’t have to be Italian or Colombian  to be able to climb. If you’ve followed his progress over the GT seasons past he’s always been up in the front Testing both skills and learning how to measure outputs.. he’s simply putting that all into practice now.

    Granted he’s not TT’er, but then his closest rivals are not climbers either, and that’s a significant point. The Giro is always hilly, RCS have an Italian outlook when it comes to building a fairly balanced GT.

    Also, he’s part of the new generation coming through. He’s won white jerseys in previous GTs and that experience is paying off handsomely.

    Will he carry Pink to the end, sadly I doubt it but that’s not to detract from his exceptional riding so far. 2 wins whilst in Pink is folklore in Italy and he’s already being seen as a Demi God. Italians love a fighter, a fighter and winner in Pink is the stuff of legend.

    Fabulous riding from him and the team, I really thought Kruisinger had hung up his shoes, but even he seems to have found some spirit of old.

    Its great to see a fresh smiling face on the podium.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    I hate to be the one to ask, but, are we accepting this from Yates?

    I think there’s a point, that a lot of self-styled ‘real cycling fans’ have reached where it becomes a sort of ongoing truism that anyone who wins or simply performs well must be cheating. Some of it seems to come from a slightly flaky idea that somehow we’re all about equal, all pro cyclists train really hard and thus, if you win, you must have gained an unfair advantage.

    That ignores genetic factors – some riders are born with a higher VO2 Max, muscle composition or whatever. Like it or not, the raw material, even among elite athletes is not equal. There was a fascinating documentary a few year back where they analysed the physiology of the legendary hurdler Colin Jackson. It transpired that he actually had an incredibly rare tyre of super high-twitch muscle fibres, which in turn explained his extraordinary explosive power.

    And that’s before you look at other factors like training programmes – no, no all elite cyclists train to the same level – motivation, psychological toughness – ‘resilience’ – the quality of nutritional and logistical back-up and more.

    That doesn’t of course mean that elite sportsmen don’t ever cheat, of course some do, but there’s nothing in Simon Yates’s career progression that suggests anything weird or disproportionate. And even when you do get outliers, Valverde’s performances in his late 30s for example, it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s cheating currently. Elite athletes, almost by definition, have unusual physiologies. It’s part of why they are elite athletes. And in the case of GT cyclists, they’re operating under prolonged, extreme workloads.

    Anyway, to cut a long story short. It’s a shame that whenever anyone wins anything, the first question seems to be ‘is he or she a doper?’

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