According to Giants web site the Defy Advanced and Advanced Pro share exactly the same frameset and it’s only the SL 0 and 1 models that differ.

It reads as

Defy Advanced – Advanced-Grade Composite
Defy Advanced Pro – Advanced-Grade Composite
Advanced SL – Advanced SL-Grade Composite, D-Fuse Integrated Seatpost

The reason for my post is to ascertain whether I am missing anything here and to ask whether the SL 0 frameset is markedly better.

My plan is to buy the bike just for the framset as I am planning on doing a custom build with SRAM groupset and carbon rims.

The pro has the OS 1″1/4 headtube and full carbon fork including steerer. I think that’s the only difference but could be wrong. So the pro F+F will be lighter and theoretically a bit stiffer. I have the pro (picked up one of Giant UK’s 2015 demo bikes for a good price) and it’s nice but suspect the difference is marginal.

Haven’t ridden the SL so can’t comment on how that rides. Lighter again though

So the pro F+F will be lighter and theoretically a bit stiffer.

Ok. Thanks for that. I thought there must have been some difference.

@flanagaj

Both advanced and advanced pro use Toray T700 carbon fibre with in-house performance grade resin.

Big difference is the head tube and fork

Advanced has “hybrid” fork with carbon blades/crown and aluminium alloy steerer tube, in taper style with 1.125″ top

Advanced Pro has full carbon fork and oversized “OD2” steerer tube, and larger diameter head tube and stem.

Real world? You’d notice the weight difference (fork difference 350-400 gramme) more than ‘stiffness’.

Unfortunately the forks on both frameset are proprietary and not upgradeable.

If you want the best frameset get the Pro.

The bits bolted onto any frame wear out/break/get upgraded. A heavier frame is always a heavier frame 😉

SL frame is Toray T800 with CNT professional grade resin and integrated seat mast, same OD2 fork steerer style as “Pro” but obviously the T800 carbon material. Again the frame is lighter/stiffer than the Advanced Pro.

The SL design is absolutely lovely to ride, the integrated seat mast is something else in terms of comfort.

This is my new 2016 TCR SL custom build

I recently got an Advanced Pro 2 to replace a 2012 Defy Composite. The front end is noticeably stiffer, I guess down to the differences in the fork and headtube. Lovely bike, and very pleased with it.

Thanks fellas. You saved me from a costly mistake as I didn’t twig regarding the aluminium fork steerer on the non pro version.

I just need campag to hurry up and release a disc brake and then I can outfit it with campag chorus 🙂

It is a very nice looking frame.

the integrated seat mast is something else in terms of comfort

why’s that, then ? (honest question – err, honest)

You’d notice the weight difference (fork difference 350-400 gramme) more than ‘stiffness’.

You mean 350 vs 400g I presume, ie a 50g difference? No way in hell there’s a 350-400 difference in the two forks.

I didn’t twig regarding the aluminium fork steerer on the non pro version

is that such an awful thing? I’m guessing that a majority of fork flex is below the bottom of the headtube

I wondered whether the increased stiffness was partly the fork and hub being beefier to deal with torsional forces from the disc brake…

@njee

350-400 gramme is the overall weight difference ( I.e. carbon 320, hybrid 720) between alloy steerer fork and full carbon fork – the 50 gramme variance is fork length due to frame size and length steerer cut down.

I’ve weighed the forks myself..I was surprised at the lump of the hybrid fork.

@scaredypants

The SL frame is ridiculously stiff when in the gas or cutting turns. My TCR SL frame is just 1 kg including seatmast uncut and saddle clamp, front/rear derailleur mounts.

Yet despite the stiff frame, sitting down you get a real soft feel on the saddle when riding across peppered roads so you can pedal fast, not battered like super stiff seatube frame where you bounce on the saddle.

– despite my S-works power saddle which has carbon base/rails and level 1 ‘firm’ padding.

Yet despite the stiff frame, sitting down you get a real soft feel on the saddle when riding across peppered roads so you can pedal fast, not battered like super stiff seatube frame where you bounce on the saddle.

Have I misunderstood masts? I thought they were bigger diameter than seaposts and that this would make them stiffer, if a bit lighter

(and carbon rails, in my brain, are more “forgiving” – like carbon bars supposedly are)

the integrated seat mast is something else in terms of comfort

It really isn’t that big a deal to be honest.

This from a Defy SL and a Propel SL owning rider who also has non ISP versions of both bikes. It is a very nice to have, but I bought the Defy SL for the T800 frame predominantly. The Propel SL was the nearest replacement for the Propel Advanced from my crash.

Giant didn’t used to do “non Pro” frame and forks, all the Advanced frames came with full T700 carbon and oversized headtube. It’s to give the customer more “choice”. AKA offer a lower price point because they have discontinued the “Composite” range. Alloy steerer bikes are still very good and only a small water bottle heavier than full carbon, and best of all, the Advanced frame is lighter and stiffer than the composite, so I guess they had to make savings somewhere.

The normal Advanced f&f just don’t feel heavy at all on the heft test. I keep meaning to pick up some lighter wheels though

@scaredypants

the seatmast on my new TCR is considerably smaller diameter (shape) than the seat post on the Advanced/Pro TCR. When you cut the mast to fit, its scary how slender and light that tube is, considering it holds your body weight

The frame itself has a smaller seat tube (between seat “cluster” and BB junction), in fact the tube is so much smaller there is nothing to locate the rotation screw against on a Shimano 11 speed front mech – normally we install Shimano’s self adhesive metallic plate against the seat tube. With the SL you have to set it manually and 9nm on the mounting bolt to stop it rotating under load.

@TiRed

Your point about the seat mast on the Defy and Propel is probably true as both have a larger diameter tube – the new TCR however is very noticeable – if you get the chance to ride one you’d be impressed no doubt.

my missus has the 2016 TCR Advanced Pro frameset custom built, whilst I have the 2016 TCR SL, the frames have different feel on the saddle – subtle, but its there

your point about the savings is interesting, we talk about this in the store – they give you a really high quality frame (many brands use cheaper carbon / higher ratio of resin on their entry level to mid range bikes), but with the hybrid fork to offset the frame cost. Other brands give you the cheaper frame but with a full carbon fork.

Its a different way of speccing a bike frameset?

Struggling to justify adding a tcr frame at the moment for general training and winter 🙂 . The propel ISP is stiff by design as it is a continuation of the ovalized seat tube. The Defy is much narrower, but I have a carbon post in my other Defy so both are very comfortable.

The Advanced frame is fantastic. The buyer can’t lose at either price point. I couldn’t tell the difference when I test rode it before buying the SL. That test ride included a road race.

I just replaced the propel advanced fork with a new one. £300 and the bike rides like new. Very crash proof this carbon stuff.

@TiRed

its always a struggle 😉

I agree all the frames are just..damn good. It would be nice to see a top tier “Advanced” model in each family with a full carbon fork, instead of the hybrid fork on each with the usual ‘tiagra/105/ultegra’ groupsets as you go up in price

back to that seat mast, I just found a shim from my SL at home. As you know, this sits on top of the cut seat mast to allow height increase. I’ve photographed it against a 2 pence piece to show how small diameter the new TCR SL actually is – the carbon mast is dimensionally the same as the metal shim

I’ve got the Advanced 2 with 105 and for me I can’t see why I’d ever need a better bike. Doesn’t stop me thinking about it though 🙂

Esher, another good example of the strength, not to mention physical properties, or skinny carbon are the stays on a Cervelo.

Clever stuff.

^^^ when replacing my 2012 Defy Composite the other month I looked long and hard at that one 2, as it is great value. As I already had old Ultegra on the Composite I decided to stick with it, with the Advanced Pro 2, with the added advantage of hydros (as I am used to these on my gravel bike).

Really pleased with it, and have found this thread very useful, albeit both TiRed and Esher helped me a lot on the decision making anyway, for which I am very grateful 🙂

Whichever frame you do choose from the three be very careful if you fit Giant’s mudguards made specifically for the frame. The rear bracket on mine held by an o-ring has cut clean through both seat stays, not a bit of rub but actual holes in both stays!

well the good news I learned today from Giant UK (after being told different for 2 years) was that you CAN upgrade the hybrid fork to the full carbon fork as the head tubes are not actually different; they use a different headset to reduce the diameter for the skinnier hybrid fork

it won’t be cheap (fork could be £300 plus headset) but potentially a great upgrade to the Advanced frame / bike …colour may not match though 😉

Don’t forget the stem!

That is good to hear given the weight difference between the two forks you gave earlier in the thread. I think I’ll spend money on lighter wheels first though.