Losses at GM are narrowing to £8m, however we’re getting away from the original topic – political awareness and the role of the media. While the Mail Online’s business model may be successful, I find the newspaper itself quite offensive.

Did you not see my final comment, more Labour supporters read newspapers than Tories, I would say this suggests the media has far more limited influence on voting intentionthan credited – of course your confirmation bias crap would support that contention.

seosamh77 – Member
Look at the election results, most lib dems went to UKIP. the tory vote rose 0.6% and the labour vote rose 1.5%. UKIP rose 9.5%. and the lib dems bombed 15%.

i think it’s pretty clear given the differences between UKIP and the lib dems that the vote they have commanded between at the last 2 elections is basically just a floating protest vote.

Just reading through the thread and this struck me as the sort of thing that doesn’t really help with politics and engagement. Given the low level of turnout it’s not possible from those numbers to determine that, it could also be that Nick Clegg managed to get a lot of new voters out who were disillusioned by the last term and didn’t come back where as a bunch of non voting UKIP supporters could have been mobilised. Without better data it’s all speculation.

As for press bias it’s one of the reasons for keeping the BBC. The print/big media has an agenda and a line to follow, demise of the left wing press probably has a lot to do with the demise of the left wing or that those people chose to abandon main stream media earlier on. I certainly know that some of my more left leaning friends seem to get more from blogs and small sites (by way of their media shares) than a newspaper/TV station

The Express/Mail covers people who are a bit scared of the internet and the Times/Tele those that would use it but still like the feel of paper and having the man deliver and iron it in the mornings 😉 (tongue firmly in cheek here) but it’s delivering news/opinion to a different generation.

I think the last time I bought a newspaper was when I moved house and needed to pack some glasses up a few years back.

Turnout was higher in 2015 than 2010, the last election with a higher turnout was 1997.

I’d be interested in your view of this.

YouGov.

65% of newspaper readers didn’t vote Labour. The Sun and the Daily Mail alone represented 50% of newspaper sales in 2013, The Mirror (the leading leftist newspaper) was a distant third place at between 13%-14% of market share. The Guardian and Independent combined barely notched up 7% of circulation.

I’m knackered. I need sleep, but I suspect and hope we’ll agree to disagree.

Despite turnout being higher it was still not that high and easily possible that a large number who voted in one election didn’t vote in others. I think at the moment in the states Clinton is struggling to engage with the youth and young women that Obama got on side, where as Trump is pulling from another block of previous non engaged.

On the who voted which way the % need some more meet behind them to really analyse, it also may have a lot to do with the demographic of newspaper readers rather their political makeup. As is very well publicised newspaper buying is in massive decline, if the traditional Mail/Sun readers are the ones more likely to buy a paper then that will distort that stat. It comes to a chicken and egg question around did the Left Media leave or did it’s readership leave them? The print media needs readers, if your audience moves to other delivery methods (rolling news/online content/non mainstream) then your going to lose circulation, it doesn’t mean the people don’t exist any more.

and some interesting stuff from the YouGov link

Perceptions

An analysis in 2013 claimed to have found statistical evidence for left-wing bias at the BBC, saying in only 10% of reports on stories by left-wing think tanks did the BBC qualify the findings with a ‘health warning’ about the think tank’s views, ideological position, or connection to a political figure. However it claimed the warning appeared in 25% to 60% of reports on research by right-wing sources, and was less likely to give them any coverage at all.

Mikewsmith What makes you think the BBC is any less biased than the rest of the media? Only 48% of Scots think BBC represents their lives in news and current affairs

OK from that report

Less than half – 48% – of people in Scotland believe the corporation is good at representing their lives through news and current affairs, the lowest proportion of any of the countries in the UK.

The figure compared with 58% of viewers in England who thought the BBC was good at reflecting issues south of the Border.

The figures emerged in a report by a body representing TV viewers’ interests. It warned the BBC risks failing to inform audiences properly by carrying too many reports that have nothing to do with events north of the Border.

The criticism is contained in the annual review by the Audience Council Scotland which scrutinised the issue of whether the corporation is balancing the Scottish news agenda and news in other parts of the UK properly.

It warned that programming made in Scotland should be more reflective of Scotland.

Scotland represents about 10% of the UK population, so 5% don’t like the coverage, how much of the BBC’s budget be dedicated to life north of the border?

On the web, it said there is a “disproportionate coverage of England-only stories on the UK page.” It added: “The council was concerned provision for Scotland was not growing at the pace of the wider BBC service, and at a possible loss of distinctiveness when Scottish content had been integrated into UK pages.”

Again proportionally it should average about 10% coverage?
Is there also a perception that UK stories somehow don’t impact Scotland.
Today (as of now)
Budget – UK wide implications
Surveillance Powers – UK wide implications
House of Lords Immigration debate – UK wide implications
Scotrail Story – Direct Scottish story
Thor! Loki! Action heroes inspire Scots’ baby names – Highlands and Islands

So about 10% direct coverage and the rest being given to mostly UK based news with some England in there (given the balance of the population)
Is it more that some people in Scotland (close to the numbers who voted for independence) don’t think UK wide stories like those relating to Westminster politics impacting on the whole nation and relevant to Scotland? If I click on the Scotland page of the BBC news there are lots of Scottish stories there.

Is the bias more perceived than actual?

To be fair the issue is more that editorial decisions are taken in London/Salford and instruction passed on to BBC Scotland. The lack of local editorial control can make BBC seem out of touch. It also means that when a Scottish story becomes UK news and is broadcast on UK news the UK.correspondent is parachuted in and often gives a less knowledgeable report than the Scottish correspondent, who is often standing right next to them. There’s also an issue about lack of funding and resources in BBC Scotland News. Only one camera crew at weekends! Finally the allocation of budget is complex Scotland has less than 10% of the population. The BBC raises 320million in Scotland and spends approx 175million further complicated by the fact that some of the money spent in Scotland is spent on network programmes.
http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/scottish-independence-tv-licence-fee-pledge-1-3195903. So it’s hard to be absolutely certain whether Scotland share of spending matches it’s population share. Nor is it clear how much of the money spent in Scotland is spent on Scottish programmes edit

There was a study done by the university of the West of Scotland which found some bias during the indy referendum.

So perhaps the things we can agree on here is that bias has a lot more to do with perception than anything else?
How does Scottish coverage compare to the East Mids, South West or Yorkshire & Humber (similar populations)

I would say that especially reading some of the posts in here that a reasonable number of people will claim bias if the media doesn’t represent their views on life (regardless of if they are right or not)

No I would say the bias during the referendum was simple and real. In a 2 sided referendum the news coverage on BBC Scotland regularly featured three guests from the three unionist parties and two from the pro indy parties,thereby allowing one side more time than the other. However for me the major issues are the lack of editorial control in Scotland and the lack of resources which led to some risible coverage and inaccurate reporting

The issues also stem around perhaps Scotland’s idea of it’s identity belies it’s small population. Does it’s treatment differ from the regions of similar population?

And she pointed out that of the £320 million million expected to be raised by the licence fee in Scotland 2016-17, only £175 million was due to be spent north of the border.

Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/scottish-independence-tv-licence-fee-pledge-1-3195903#ixzz431kjUbCH
Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook
Unless everything on the BBC north of the border is made in Scotland then that is probably right. If not would BBC Scotland buy in things like Dr Who/Sherlock/Top Gear to fill the airways?

Don’t dismiss the role of soctal media 0 plays in scapegoating and fear mongering. At least regular media stick to some rules and regs it’s not a complete free for all.

Just like me telling you how you should live your life in your home.

I think you’ve missed the point of the EU, Chew. 😉

Don’t dismiss the role of soctal media 0 plays in scapegoating and fear mongering. At least regular media stick to some rules and regs it’s not a complete free for all.

+1

Utter bollocks from someone’s mouth apparently unconnected to a source is far more acceptable than utter bollocks from a source. Why do you think companies love product reviews and case studies? It’s someone else pushing forward their product which (usually) makes their claims more quantifiable.

Also if you repeat a lie enough…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

“(Hitler’s) primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.”

If the EU Referendum doesn’t get your interest ask yoirself why not.

Gotta say, I am interested in it, I think it has massive implications whichever way the vote goes – but I’d also say, I’m not qualified to make that decision. I know what I think the right and wrong decisions are, and I’ll vote in favour of the one I support because I fear more the outcomes of the one I don’t – but I do not feel qualified to be making such a massive decision, and I don’t believe that probably 95% of the voters will be, either.

but I do not feel qualified to be making such a massive decision, and I don’t believe that probably 95% of the voters will be, either.

Based on the work Tetlock has done, I wouldn’t worry as there is evidence that “crowds” are better forecasters (and decision makers) than educated experts.

mikewsmith – Member
Just reading through the thread and this struck me as the sort of thing that doesn’t really help with politics and engagement. Given the low level of turnout it’s not possible from those numbers to determine that, it could also be that Nick Clegg managed to get a lot of new voters out who were disillusioned by the last term and didn’t come back where as a bunch of non voting UKIP supporters could have been mobilised. Without better data it’s all speculation.

66% isn’t a particularly low turnout these days. It’s the highest it’s been over the last 4 GE’s.

And you’re stating the obvious saying it’s speculation, well no shit sherlock.

Yes it is speculation, but with 34% not turning out its still anyones guess so why speculate like you know what happened?

mikewsmith – Member
Yes it is speculation, but with 34% not turning out its still anyones guess so why speculate like you know what happened?

Because i like to form my own opinions.

Well lib dems flocking to UKIP is certainly an interesting one…

mikewsmith – Member
Well lib dems flocking to UKIP is certainly an interesting one…

So is the idea that there are 15% entrenched lib dem voters out there.

They’ve went for 7% to 9% to 15% to 5%.

They achieved the 15% with clegmania which tells me that the extra libdem voters are swayed by savvy media characters.

So it’s not particularly a big stretch that they would flock to the next most savvy media character.

Ego, I speculate, that there’s a load of voters out there that don’t want to vote for the big 2 and will easily be swayed by the next media darling, regardless of policies.

I’m also taking from this that UKIP isn’t a particularly serious threat. (unless they end up in coalition.)

I was mostly thinking that the lib dems and UKIP have almost opposing policies so it may just be the very hard of seeing getting confused. There are plenty of non voters to cause a massive swing in any direction in any election.

I personally don’t really see one section population not voting, then another section deciding en-masse to vote for another party.

Particularly when the lib dem voters couldn’t see that they actually done a reasonable job of being the tories anchor.

That tells me that policy and actions in government aren’t really being analysed by the extra vote that they picked up in the proceeding GE’s.

I’m not really just basing my opinions on pure numbers, but going with what I feel is correct based on general observations over years.

Your opinion may differ.

The Lib Dem vote was always a mess of people with conflicting views, IMO the following happened:

West Country and Welsh rural Lib Dems voters will have moved to the Tories, inner city student types will have gone to Labour or Greens and in Scotland they went primarily over to SNP. Result vote total melt down.

I honestly can’t see many Lib Dem voters going over to UKIP.

Pondo – Member
– but I do not feel qualified to be making such a massive decision,

dunning Kruger right there, I’m willing to bet theres a shitload of idiots out there who know exactly the rights and wrongs of it all and which way they will be voting.

mefty – Member

…If only we had proportional representation…

Always good to hear all the golden oldies. It may not be a panacea but not getting a majority government that the majority didn’t vote for would be a step in the right direction imo

It may not be a panacea but not getting a majority government that the majority didn’t vote for would be a step in the right direction imo

The results of a fptp election may not resemble a problem one. For a start those safe constituencies which have low turnout may end up much higher and make the results exactly the same, voter behaviour would change.

I’m still pouring over the facts and figures from yesterday now I’ve had a much needed night of sleep. The combined circulation of The Daily Heil and The Scum account for fifty percent of the total, which is a sobering thought.

Back to politics and the original subject of this thread, I cannot recall another time when I was more exasperated and mistrustful of any government. To be able to say that after ten years of Blair makes me feel as though we’ve somehow reached a new low.

Pimpmaster Jazz – Member

Just like me telling you how you should live your life in your home.

I think you’ve missed the point of the EU, Chew. [/quote]
Naahh … just don’t like EU ZM system. 😀

The combined circulation of The Daily Heil and The Scum account for fifty percent of the total, which is a sobering thought

If you want to cheer up then 50% of what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation
The Sun and Mail account for 3.37 Million Copies in a population of 65 million They are the loud shouty one in the corner

I’m completely exasperated.. I’ve always voted but did not vote in the last election.. I just can’t vote for any oo them at the moment in good conscience.

The results of a fptp election may not resemble a problem one

aiui fptp also pushes/keeps us in a 2 party system, due to the fear of a “wasted vote” you end up with a load of people voting against 1 party instead of for the party they want. (anti-tories vote labour, anti-labs vote tory)