Hi,

I’m trying to help him, not rob him.

He is getting out of hospital today but will be housebound. I want to sort out a cleaner and set up regular deliveries for food (looks like this needs to be on a card :(). How can I set this up to come from his bank account?

He has dealt in cash only all his life, does not have a card or chequebook and has never heard of direct debit. How is he going to get access to his cash without leaving the house?

Maybe I need to get a card from his bank and use that?

I suspect I am about to enter a stressful stage in my life, has anyone been through anything similar?

Mick

Eh?

I get it, but like who hasn’t got a Bank Account these days??

You’ll need one obvz, and it’ll need to be in his name, obvz.. Once you get a Debit Card you’ll be able to do all those things you want to do provided He sets them up and agrees to them..

Unless you want to go down the legal route which could mean Power of Attorney ….

And that could be complicated.

Short term answer is to get cash out and use that.

Longer term answer, and best all round option for both him and you, is to arrange financial power of attorney so you can access his accounts and make financial decision on his behalf. You need this to make your life easier, his life easier and to provide a degree of protection to both of you.

https://www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs

Power of Attorney isn’t complicated. The Gov site is very good. Need to get a few signatures and your dad has to be of sound mind (which I hope he still is?)

He does have an account, which his pension is paid into. I think I need to find out where this is, speak to them and get a card in his name.

He used to walk to the bank and take cash out for everything. Now he can’t get to his bank, he can’t get cash out. (So currently can’t reimburse the money I have already spent 🙁 )

Yes, I am trying t discuss Power of Attorney with him but not making much progress. Fortunately he is still in sound mind.

That, or pay for the stuff yourself and get him to reimburse you (well, you access online and reimburse yourself).

As my mum couldn’t get out of the house, we would have to withdraw a lot of cash each month to pay for stuff. The amount of cash withdrawn never matched the amount budgeted eventually.

It got to the point it was safer for us to do it all and leave her with very little free cash. Everyone was fine with it.

Get yourself onto the account as a named person — that’s what I did. Quite common for the banks to do that. You *might* need to POA though, it was our local bank where I, and mum, had banked for ever which helped.

Fortunately he is still in sound mind.

Then Power of Attorney won’t help you – it’s not the right tool for this. It only comes into play once someone is deemed incapacitous. Even if you had one, the bank shouldn’t allow you to take over his finances without some evidence that he cannot manage things (cognitively) himself.

If he has a bank account that he withdraws cash from, surely you just need the card for that? The bank will have sent one. How does (did) he get his cash out in person?

“If he has a bank account that he withdraws cash from, surely you just need the card for that? The bank will have sent one. How does (did) he get his cash out in person?”

I suspect it is the post office and he has some kind of book. Pretty sure he doesn’t have a new fangled card. 🙂 I know for a fact that he has never used a machine. Doesn’t trust them 🙂

I’m will discuss with him later and find out where it is.

Can you get added to the account/joint account,that way you can give him his cash.

My parents did that before poa, it’s easier and quicker and you can keep an eye on stuff.

LPA can be set even if a person has capacity it’s them who set it up my wife has it for her mother has had for a few years.

An old bank account may not have a card just a book.

Then Power of Attorney won’t help you – it’s not the right tool for this. It only comes into play once someone is deemed incapacitous

Are you sure about that? Yes, people don’t normally  actually use it until they have to but it is way easier to set up while someone is of sound mind.

Edit: beaten to it by the iPad of truth

Edit: beaten to it by the iPad of truth

Power of Attorney can definitly be put in place before the subject is icapacitated/not of sound mind or whatever. My Dad has granted it to me recently and he’s perfectly OK at the moment. It’s easier to do while the person can give direct consent rather than when it’s actually got to the point you have to try and prove its required.

As above, Power of Attorney.

First step though may be to just go to his bank and discuss it with them. You may be able to be set up as a third party signatory on his account.

Then Power of Attorney won’t help you – it’s not the right tool for this. It only comes into play once someone is deemed incapacitous.

another +1 for not true. When someone still has capacity they are supposed to still be involved in the decisions though.
It is incredibly difficult to deal with simple things like paying an overdue gas bill without POA as they just won’t let you have any information (GDPR etc). My wife had to play a “guess how much the overdue bill is?” game with a helpful (truly) member of staff as they couldn’t tell her. She had to guess the amount pay to stop my Dad’s gas from being cut off while he was in hospital. With POA they have to deal with you.
Unfortunately, the gutter press are full of scare stories about people evicted and left penniless after signing POA, so some folks are very wary of it.

We do everything in cash but keep records. Shopping is easy just keep receipts, cleaners well cash only I am afraid. Misc stuff receipt.

I mark paid on every receipt if it was.

Most fraud is within families so show off the system to any interested parties. We settle up every week.

Worked so far no problems at all.

Power of Attorney can (should) be setup while they are still of sound mind. I didn’t have that in place when my mother suffered a blow to the head and it made life difficult.
If they are incapable of decision making then you need to go a different route – I think it’s called Property and financial affairs Deputy.

Firstly get online banking set-up for his current account so that you can access it (with him present if you want, he can even be the only one with the card PIN) and through that set-up a standing order to your account that you know will cover the expenses (better to do an amount just over and give him cash back occasionally if extra money accrues from it). If he’s not capable of using online banking then you’ll need to assist (and probably need to know his card PIN).

Not sure who the above would work when it comes to inheritance tax later though (and gifts) as nto sure how you would prove the standing order transfer was for you to buy stuff for him from not as an on-going gift. Maybe setting up a new joint account that you and he both have access to and set up the standing order to go to it then at least you have a clearer audit trail out out-goings for food/cleaners (might get messy if you ever withdraw cash from it I guess)

All the utility bills I have in joint names so am authorised to query, pay, change things. Just phone them up and get the bill holder to authorise the extra name. They re quite used to it.

We have poa s in place but not q ready to execute, if thats an appropriate word.

Top tip is get organised, keep records of payments, cash left etc, not quite sure who will investigate but I m never more than 200 out of pocket.

The different views expressed about whether a PoA can be used while the donor still has mental capacity are probably a result of the two types of LPA. An LPA for Property and Finance includes an option for the donor to choose whether the attorney(s) can act as soon as it’s registered, or only if the donor lacks capacity. An LPA for Health and Welfare can only be used when the donor lacks capacity.

Short term, use his card (I know) but we did that for MIL. Longer term, get named on the account, and then POA – pretty sure my wife had a bank card for her mum before POA. With POA she also got on-line banking access to sort out all the bills. Ideally you’ll then get utilities put on DD as it’s going to be a pain running to and from post offices etc to pay the bills.

The different views expressed about whether a PoA can be used while the donor still has mental capacity are probably a result of the two types of LPA. An LPA for Property and Finance includes an option for the donor to choose whether the attorney(s) can act as soon as it’s registered, or only if the donor lacks capacity. An LPA for Health and Welfare can only be used when the donor lacks capacity.

That makes sense if that’s the case. I only really know about LPA for health care which is essentially useless until the day the donor stops having capacity* – and then it could be potentially very useful.

*Minor caveat: Capacity is decision-specific. Someone might know if they want a cup of tea but not know if they should have a cancer operation.

I’m guessing if he has no card, then he will not have / want internet banking. However I assume most banks still operate telephone banking which would ideally suit his needs. They will either be able to arrange over the phone, with a letter sent to his address OR you can get a form from the branch.

If he still doesn’t want a card, you could do online purchase stuff, then he can call telephone banking and move the money over to you just like it was 1999.

beaten to it by the iPad of truth

😂

Yup @greybeard spot on.

I’m kind of sorted.

He has a building society account which is completely useless, they don’t do cards etc so he just has a book and walks in to get cash. Isn’t this what we did in the 1970s?. They can make it so that I can do “third party withdrawals” but this is completely useless because I can’t get there during business hours.

He also has a PO account, which has a card and pin! I have been able to use this to get cash! He now has a full freezer and some new pants! This isn’t ideal because I was hoping to not have to deal with cash but at least it means that he can reimburse me for the money I have already spent (thank goodness).

Mick

Speak to his bank about Third Party Access/Authority. I manage my Gran’s money this way and my own card and access to it via my own online banking log in.

Some info on this at https://www.barclays.co.uk/power-of-attorney/

I was hoping to not have to deal with cash

and

a PO account, which has a card and pin!

Erm…

Just pay direct, why bother with getting cash first?

arrange financial power of attorney so you can access his accounts and make financial decision on his behalf.

its not ‘make decisions on his behalf’ – POA is to help him with the decisions he makes.