Anyway got to go now but my last thought is do you reckon Geraint is sat back at home thinking how well its all gone?

I’m not sure how much attention he has been paying to you really.

We are allowed to talk honestly about cycling, the risks and how we feel about it.

“on a per capita basis there were 37.5 percent fewer Australians riding bikes in 2011 than in 1985-86.”

And check out the recent figures it’s been falling from 2011-2017 but in different ways, it’s up in major cities who have had huge investments in cycleways and schemes, you can traverse Melbourne hardly touching a busy road or idiotic intersection

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A post shared by Michael Smith (@smithmichaelw) on Jan 6, 2018 at 9:43pm PST

Dedicated cycle lanes between the Tram lines

It’s not that simple

Really still on with the semantics of this one?

Time for us to give up on that I think, the evidence suggests the op either doesn’t understand the distinction or is trying to make a point we’re not getting.

Honestly over there you just don’t even think about it apart from some people who have a passion for letting the wind run through their hair.

Sure, but if you’re going to change the law, it should be for a good reason, which seems to be absent from the Australian data.  I’d say that the UK would be better served by following Dutch or Danish examples.

Sure, but if you’re going to change the law, it should be for a good reason, which seems to be absent from the Australian data.

If I was to be honest the Aus data shows a fall, but it’s also associated with a rise in car use.

It’s still falling despite nothing changing in terms of helmet laws

It’s rising in cites where people are investing in infrastructure

But I really doubt it will factor on any politicians list of things to do so dead in the water really

Still got a lot of respect for GT though, seems like a good bloke

My point was that there seems to be no evidence of helmet compulsion having a beneficial effect?

Have you found a study that says it hasn’t?

Honest question I don’t think there is actually much data that can be analysed outside of other factors.

Have you found a study that says it hasn’t?

No, I haven’t found a study that proves a negative.

Anyway got to go now but my last thought is do you reckon Geraint is sat back at home thinking how well its all gone?

He’s been riding in the Tour of Germany. How productive has your day been, on balance?

Never mind Dutch or Danish, Cambridge seems to manage a high proportion of cycle journeys and despite low helmet wearing there is no carnage as far as I’m aware.  After all cycling is safe.

Take the Boris Bikes in London for example. being used in a congested city by riders of all skill levels. There is accurate stats as all hires are logged.  There was 34 million miles cycled before the first fatality.

https://understandinguncertainty.org/fatality-risk-boris-bikes

Debating with helmet wearers is like debating with religious people.  Helmet wearing is largely a faith thing.

No-one ever changes their mind and the same old stuff comes out every time

– Anecdotal rubbish.  I fell off and the helmet saved my live

– Poor risk analysis.  No answer for why they don’t wear one when waling / doing other activities

People can wear them for whatever they want, I really couldn’t care less.  Just the same as people shouldn’t care less if I am wearing one or not.

Just the same as people shouldn’t care less if I am wearing one or not.

Which is less likely when people like Froome jumped in with a poorly thought through comment.

He’s been riding in the Tour of Germany. How productive has your day been, on balance?

Was pretty good thanks. I’ll bet he was pleased a single line from an interview was carried by almost every news outlet in the UK and was criticised by UK Cycling and back peddled himself on twitter.

Wow! This was one question in an hour interview. It’s nothing I’ve ever thought about. So when asked I thought… I always wear one and I’d advise all children to wear them so🤷‍♂️ Didn’t realise people felt so passionately about helmets!!

Whatever he thinks in reality, it is hard to imagine a TdF winner stating publically that people should not wear helmets. Imagine the backlash there.  But great story from a non story though. Is it summer holiday time?

Dr Hutch on Twitter sums up my feelings:

Amazing how many people struggle to grasp that the kernel of the helmet debate is not whether it’s a good idea to wear a helmet or not, it’s whether people who don’t want to wear one should be forced to.

The reasons to not wear a helmet aren’t nearly as good as the reasons not to force others to. The difference matters

To put it yet another way, from personal experience. I almost always wear a helmet, but I honest-to-God can’t think of anything I care about less, or am less entitled to an opinion on, than whether you wear one

Rightyho then.

Is Mr Thomas Stupid or what ?

I almost always wear a helmet, but I honest-to-God can’t think of anything I care about less, or am less entitled to an opinion on, than whether you wear one

I agree to an extent and would advise anyone to wear a helmet. But calling for compulsion is wrong firstly as it can deter people from cycling making it seem dangerous when it isnt and secondly being famous and calling for it in a national newspapers panders to those drivers who see cyclists as reckless risk takers and strengthens their idea of the cyclist being complicit in risk taking so why give them more room or thought. The comments from Thomas will have in one go undone a lot of good work by the likes of Chris Boardman.

Rightyho then.

Is Mr Thomas Stupid or what ?

No.. probably not.  He seems like a decent bloke and has achieved what many can only dream of.  He also has shit loads of cash and loves what he does,

We are the stupid ones sat at our screens having an argument about wearing a plastic helmet.

He seems like a decent bloke and has achieved what many can only dream of.  He also has shit loads of cash and loves what he does,

Does that make his pronouncements all sensible. What an odd world you live in.

By the way you forgot to add that his birds well fit innit!

No-one ever changes their mind and the same old stuff comes out every time

I changed mine.

I changed mine.

No you didn’t because that would make my massively generalised statement wrong in some way.

I changed mine.

No you didn’t

Oh yes you did.

He’s behind you!!

Beej, told you I dont argue much on here anymore!

😳😳😳😳

The comments from Thomas will have in one go undone a lot of good work by the likes of Chris Boardman.

Really? Perhaps you should issue a fact sheet on the cycling party line so we can all keep our opinions in line.

Really? Perhaps you should issue a fact sheet on the cycling party line so we can all keep our opinions in line.

Geraint’s opinions get a lot more attention than yours or mine, so it would be better if they were evidence-based when related to cycling safety.

I don’t think compulsion is necessary. How many people do you see on a weekend riding without a helmet ? Its pretty rare for me to see any.

I used to be a mtb guide and I’ve seen enough accidents,including  myself, to convince me that wearing a helmet can reduce the amount of damage.I have had helmets gouged and written off due to impacts with the ground. It can prevent a trip to A &E with severe lacerations to the head. The road is just as hard as a trail. Its not a magic bullet against the some of the appalling driving standards.

GT has a right to an opinion like the  rest of us who contribute on here,but to call him stupid is pretty insulting.

How many people do you see on a weekend riding without a helmet ?

Quite a lot of the people I see riding about on bikes dont wear a helmets, vast majority of people I see out “cycling” either on road bikes or mountainbikes wear helmets. I know a few people who almost never wear one.

I’d favour compulsion at trail centres such as Swinley Forest where a surprising number of riders dont use helmets but for a lot of people pootling about to the shops, or out on a summer evening along the canal for a pint a helmet is not even close to being necessary.

GT has a right to an opinion like the  rest of us who contribute on here,but to call him stupid is pretty insulting.

Even when he himself states that he wants compulsion but has never thought about it. To my mind saying that to a national newspaper is stupid. I’m sure he’s had worse insults and no doubt the fanboys will be quick to call me stupid and I wont be bothered either.

I don’t think compulsion is necessary. How many people do you see on a weekend riding without a helmet ? Its pretty rare for me to see any.

The only person who is not wearing a helmet is me, I would say 99% of people out riding wear one so agree that compulsion is a bit pointless where I live and ride.  However, I I encounter roadies and MTBers and not Mrs HIggins riding down to the shop.

What is interesting about this is how it juxtaposes with public opinion about sportstars in general (like Cipriani in the rugby thread ). Here it seems we can safely ignore Thomas because he is thick, misguided or whatever, yet Cipriani’s behaviour seemingly has a massive impact on the youth of today.

I prefer to just think of Thomas and Cipriani as people who do well at their sport, end of.
What they do and say outside that is of no actual relevance.

Yes, in my opinion, they are both wrong, but so what, millions of other people are wrong every day, why aren’t their comments or behaviour given as much credence.

We all give too much attention to these people.

It’s a media thing.

G was asked his opinion / thoughts on helmets as part of a much more wide ranging interview. One of those subtle little nothings that an interviewer drops into a conversation. Nicely at ease, he’ll have not thought for a second about the answer.

The media then go with “TdF Champion thinks helmets should be compulsory!” as their headline, ignoring most of the rest of the interview, adding some external facts and anecdotes and using it as a way of bashing cyclists.

Thomas is a nice guy, certainly one of the smarter pro-cyclists but there should be some media training around this in two parts:

1) the media hate all cyclists and will use everything you say against you

2) when asked about helmets, respond by saying “please go and talk to Chris Boardman”. NEVER give your opinion on it!

Here it seems we can safely ignore Thomas because he is thick, misguided or whatever, yet Cipriani’s behaviour seemingly has a massive impact on the youth of today

We, as in siciety wont ignore Thomas though, almost every news outlet ran with his compulsory helmet statement, it will have had an impact.

Thomas is a nice guy, certainly one of the smarter pro-cyclists.

I’ll have to take your word on that he has been at best very naive.

I prefer to just think of Thomas and Cipriani as people who do well at their sport, end of.

Thomas is a much better cyclist than Cipriani is a rugby player.

Beej, told you I dont argue much on here anymore!

Ah, but it’s been ages since there’s been a good helmet debate. Shame there’s no TJ. Throw in a new beloved national hero and this could run and run!

Just for balance, I think I’m stupid.

I’ll have to take your word on that he has been at best very naïve.

Partly that but mostly it’s a media thing.

G has done thousands of interviews since he won; he’s sat there through the same inane questions, whisked from one to the other, probably barely even knowing who is asking the questions – another face, another Dictaphone, another “what did it feel like to win?”

This one, a bit longer than some of them but he’s nicely at ease, chatting away and the interviewer slips in the classic “what do you think of helmets?” one, in the middle of talking about bad crashes he’s had, injuries he’s sustained and so on.

You can almost see the editorial bit behind it all.
[journo]( rushes into the office) “boss, I got it, he said helmets should be compulsory!”
[editor] “he actually said that?!”
[journo] “well yeah, I had to sit through a whole hour of shit about him growing up and I had to ask a few leading questions but yep, we’re good to roll!”
[editor] “I’ve got the clickbait headline right here, this’ll go viral!”

<p>

Poor risk analysis.  No answer for why they don’t wear one when waling / doing other activities

</p><p></p><p>Someone doesn’t understand a risk assessment. What’s the probablility of you falling when walking vs cycling? What is the nature of each fall? Etc.</p>

What’s the probablility of you falling when walking vs cycling? What is the nature of each fall?

Depends if you are comparing walking over Striding Edge with cycling to the shops. Both are very different from other types of walking/cycling.

Nice anecdote, doesnt mean the old dear I see most days pootling about on her shopper needs to be criminalised for not wearing a helmet does it?

Nice bit of editing.. Very selective. As already pointed out, selectively quoting just weakens your argument

You missed the bit were I went on to say they shouldn’t be compulsory however . Also the bit where I say I don’t care if you wear one or not..

However accidents happen, and I think my experience is compelling enough reason for me to always wear one..

I genuinely don’t give a shit whether you crack your head open or not. In all liklihood you won’t, but on the tiny off chance you did im not going to lose sleep over it am I? So for that reason if you don’t want to wear one that’s entirely your decision and should remain so. I<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> would however encourage anyone I know who cycles to wear one. If they don’t want to, then again that’s their decision. </span>

Is that clear enough for you to understand?

However accidents happen, and I think my experience is compelling enough reason for me to always wear one..

Are you talking about cycling?

I find the alternative method of avoiding riding over wet drain covers works for me. But each to their own.

Who said it was wet? It was a bone dry day, I wasn’t paying attention and put the power down as I turned at a t junction at the wrong time. Perhaps there was oil on the ground, perhaps I was just unlucky.. But given I’m a reasonably competent cyclist with thousands of road miles behind me and with only one crash in that time, if it can happen to me I’m pretty sure it can happen to others.

Not you of course.. You sound like a riding god who never makes a mistake.

<p>

Depends if you are comparing walking over Striding Edge with cycling to the shops. Both are very different from other types of walking/cycling.

</p><p>That’s very true.</p><p>So lets compare walking to the shops with cycling to the shops, the analogy someone used as an argument against helmets.</p><p></p>

lets compare walking to the shops with cycling to the shops, the analogy someone used as an argument against helmets.

In 2o16, 445 pedestrians were killed in collisions with cars. See the article on the front page.

squirrelking: So lets compare walking to the shops with cycling to the shops, the analogy someone used as an argument against helmets

Go on then, let’s see your assessment of these risks, I’d love to see how you do that.