might be controversial, but I can't be the only person seeing similarities between this

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/bike-range-abyss-images/abyss_low_x2.jpg

and this

http://washford.scene7.com/is-viewers/flash/genericzoom.swf?serverUrl=/is/image&image=Washford/946590&viewSize=1000,507

there's some differences – the carrera appears to take an internal headset, and has an extra set of bottle mounts, but is that it??

sorry if this has bindun

Are you suggesting they are one and the same (except for the headset)?

On a quick inspection they a couple of vague similarities (they both have a seat tube brace, and the dropouts look a bit similar) but thats about it. Apart from that, all the tubes look different to me

same factory i bet??

Similar, but subtly different I'd say.

Anyway, your point being?

no point as such, I'd just lusted after an abyss briefly, and then was surprised to see what looked to me like almost the same frame (obviously not too all) on a bike with an rrp well under half that of the abyss

very similar – however I think the rear stays are different and the top tube is lower on the genesis, on the gen it looks a virtually straight line but there's more angle on the carrera

better fork on the genesis but that doesn't make it double the price

The dropouts are probably an off the shelf option, you see the same ones crop up on various bikes. Frame doesn't really look very similiar otherwise tbh, other than that it's a load of triangles with a seat-tube brace.

Nice bikes though, those Furys and those Abysses.

Not sure how accurate it is but I was told a few weeks back that Carrera frames are supplied by Merida.

The Genesis has a gusset on the top of the top-tube/head-tube join whereas the Carerra doesn't. Also the Genesis down tube seems to taper toward the BB.

Normal Man, I have heard that too, not sure if its true though, what I can say is the Carrera frame are absolutely top notch for quality and design got some lovely little features on them… Not ridden them mind you, but bought the wife one…

Seems to me that the only thing that the seat-tube gusset is the only thing that leads you to draw a comparison. They are similar in the same way that an On-One looks like a De-Kerf – one common design feature.
They're far more different than they are similar – the one key element that makes or breaks a bike is it's geometry – at a glance these bikes are poles apart. HA, front centre, fork length etc etc are all clearly very different. Specwise they are very different beasts too. The Carrera is essentially a straight forward XC bike with a nod to MBUK, and the Genesis is a proper AM hardtail on a sensible budget.

The dropouts are commonly available – little point adding cost in tooling up to have something that looks different but offers no real advantage. 90% of Aluminium bikes made in Taiwan use common dropouts.
The Carrera has a similar seat tube gusset as ours, yes. But i can guarantee the things that really make a difference such as tube dimensions / wall thicknesses and geometry will be different.

It's a bit like saying Carerra's 4-bar FS bike is the same as a Specialized FSR, they have similarities in the way most steel road frames look similar but the ride can vary hugely. I do appreciate there's a lot of bikes out there that look initially similar though. The thing to watch out for is it's the small details like 1/2" of BB height plus a half degree on the head angle that can seperate average bikes and great bikes, details that you need to look beyond first impressions to notice.

Carerra are a Halfords brand so they have one less layer of margin than us so they will always undercut an IBD-sold brand. We sell via Cytek-qualified IBDs as we appreciate the level of service and set-up that they can give.

One of the reasons I love stw is for the fact that the people who actually design and sell the bikes come on here and post in response to questions/speculation.

wwaswas +1.

Meh. Seeing SFB getting a good roasting does it for me.

The dropouts are commonly available – little point adding cost in tooling up to have something that looks different but offers no real advantage. 90% of Aluminium bikes made in Taiwan use common dropouts.
The Carrera has a similar seat tube gusset as ours, yes. But i can guarantee the things that really make a difference such as tube dimensions / wall thicknesses and geometry will be different.

It's a bit like saying Carerra's 4-bar FS bike is the same as a Specialized FSR, they have similarities in the way most steel road frames look similar but the ride can vary hugely. I do appreciate there's a lot of bikes out there that look initially similar though. The thing to watch out for is it's the small details like 1/2" of BB height plus a half degree on the head angle that can seperate average bikes and great bikes, details that you need to look beyond first impressions to notice.

Carerra are a Halfords brand so they have one less layer of margin than us so they will always undercut an IBD-sold brand. We sell via Cytek-qualified IBDs as we appreciate the level of service and set-up that they can give.

Interesting to read, thanks. I guess I don't see bike frames in the same amount of granularity as a frame designer\builder would, I was just flicking through the halfords options and thought 'I've seen one of them before'.. I understand why independant brand bikes are more expensive, and it really wasn't a dig, It was just surprise as a lot of the 'features' that made the bike stand out when looking at pictures looked the same.

In reality, I was a bit sorry I couldn't get any of the more burly Genesys bikes under the C2W scheme (ever thought about packaging one up with budget bits to get it in under a grand?) and figured there might be a decent budget alternitive

Al, i hope you don't mean roasting as in the footballer's friday night 2-s up hobby.. 😉

Not taken as a dig at all, the reply was just to point out that there's not much thet's totally original out there, bikes have evolved to the point where similarities are inevitable and it's the subtler stuff that counts these days.
Halfords can get our bikes as i know of riders whho got them on cycle shcemes, though i'm not sure how as we don't supply them direct.

Edited to add – I tried to spec an Abyss at 999, but tbh once you add big forks and the kkit that can stand up to that use it's over a thousand. A hardcore looking bike that isn't up to the use it suggests isn't our thing really (and i don't mean that as a comment on the carrera, it's more about the RRP that a Genesis of a certain spec needs to be)

fair enough. I'm surprised no-one (at all) has gone down the route of speccing one deliberately shonky part to bring the costs down – ie fully rigid to save £300 on the list price (or whatever)

just a thought 🙂

"Not sure how accurate it is but I was told a few weeks back that Carrera frames are supplied by Merida."

Certainly has been true in the past, my Kraken is a merida carrera… Not sure if it still is though.

few weeks back that Carrera frames are supplied by Merida.

used to be true, my old fury from around 2003 actually has merida stamped on the drop-outs. Merida also make/own specialized bikes.

no idea where carrera are made now, presumably somewhere cheeper as the welding is nowhere near as neat as it was on the old frames.