Rene – only enough to know I don’t understand and don;t know enough

Just a quick point. If as I believe people have the right to self identify as to their sex then does that give the right to self identify as to race like that distinctly odd american woman recently who lived as black despite being 100% white?

Not just race, I have seen some examples of species as well but don’t know to what extent these are genuine beliefs.

does that give the right to self identify as to race like that distinctly odd american woman recently who lived as black despite being 100% white?

The ‘right’ to self-identify? Curious.

Cultural identity is something we all have to one degree or another. Class, race, gender, nationality, etc etc. Many have identified/aspired to completely different cultures than their birth-culture. What is ‘living as a black’? The mind boggles. ‘Being black’ is a mono-culture?

Conversely, if I were black and chose to (sic) ‘live as a white’, would I identify with an Irish farmer, a gay barista in Barcelona, a KKK Grand Gizzard? Donald Trump? A neurotic female budgerigar-breeder from Halifax? A chavver from Essex pretending to be a Jamaican rapper? A gardener from Switzerland?

The mind again boggles.

As for me – currently identify with anyone who is a decent, honest, kind person regardless of skin-colour, nationality, gender or financial standing. Oh yeah, I was a badger last night and a hawk today 😉

Please can you help me find that data on the ONS website, specifically the one that shows the gap for women in their 20s because the it’s not in the data they’ve published:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/genderpaygapbyageintheuk

What is striking looking at the spreadsheet linked to this document is that the pay gap narrows very dramatically in 2008. Perhaps this gives a clue as to what has happened:

http://www.reuters.com/article/women-day-pay-europe/pay-gap-narrowed-for-eu-women-during-financial-crisis-idUSL5N0W81FH20150306

2.2% is the median difference between all men and all women aged between 20 and 29 in full time work.

If you’re going to try and use the difference to try and explain why women might end up self selecting out of the work force having had children (where the dicussion between them is based simply on who earns more), then you can apply that difference as an average across all couples.

No you can’t, because as you say:

I’ve read, but cannot cite the source so take it as you wish, that women typically look for someone of equal or higher social status. I don’t know why. I can’t prove it’s true. Money doesn’t always equal social status and vice versa but it’s a reasonable approximation.

No you can’t, because as you say:

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to refute?

I’m pointing out that it is not valid to apply global averages to couples. There are many reasons why income distribution in couples may be skewed. You yourself gave one.

I’m pointing out that it is not valid to apply global averages to couples. There are many reasons why income distribution in couples may be skewed. You yourself gave one.

Ah I see what you mean.

OK but then we’re just back to the point that men don’t earn materially more than each other when they’re in the 20s and 30s, the gap only emerges in their 40s.

If the man in any given parental partnership does earn more then that would be a valid reason for the woman self selecting out, but it’s not evidence of discrimination or disadvantage, it’s just a rational decision.

I guess it’s still reasonable to assume though that most people marry within a reasonably narrow age range as well, at which point the income disparity is more likely to be equal than skewed one way.

Well I don’t have a dog in this fight – just trying to get a clear view of what is behind the statistics.

At some point these threads become pointless to all except the one or two who need to get a room.

Who do you think needs to get a room? 😀