So then, I guess it might be some kind of weird mid life crisis or something but I’ve recently started getting interested in bikes with gearboxes. I’m fancying building up a hardtail with a Pinion gearbox.
A few questions.
Anyone on here got any experiences to share on what they’re like to live with? Are they really super low maintenance? Are they noticeably ‘draggy’ (for want of a better description!)

What manufacturers make frames? I’ve looked on Pinion’s website but there’s so many small manufacturers I’ve not had chance to look through. I did notice Eighteen bikes build custom frames so I will look into that option some more.
I’m currently running a mk1 Stanton Switchback as a singlespeed and a Nicolai Helius FS bike. To be honest the Switchback has been my go to bike for months now, it’s just perfect for where I ride 90% of the time (Cannock local) so I’d like something along those lines but maybe with 29″ wheels to help with the mixed riding from my front door to the trails.

Any ideas on frames to look at?

Cheers

Never had a gearbox bike but have used Rohloff. Super low maintenance. I never found it draggy. Would give you more frame options perhaps? I never experienced the phenomenon of all the weight being felt at the back either. I’m a recreational rider rather than someone looking for performance advantages though.

Another with a rohloff here who loves it.

However the pinion is a totally different type of design being like a car or motorcycle gearbox rather than an epicyclic and in the middle of the bike

It will have slightly more drag than a well maintained derailleur in the middle gears because you are turning meshing gears but unless you are racing that will be insignificant I would have thought. Puts the weight in a good place as well

I have a couple.  One is a Nicolai Ion GPI full suspension bike that I would happily replace like for like if anything happened to it.  The other is one I bought from Sick! before they imploded but is essentially a Ti frame (from possibly Waltly) with custom geometry that is mostly fine but those idiots had no idea how to measure a chain stay.  If I had to replace that (or if I could go back in time to before I ordered from Sick!) I would put 18 Bikes at the top of my list and maybe the Nordest Lacrau in second place followed by Nicolai in third.  The Nordest is in some ways similar to my Sick! bike and at a similarly good price but hopefully Nordest have some idea what they are doing.

Downsides of the gearbox are that your bike will be a Kg or so heavier and you may not like the gripshift shifter. I’ve never been aware of additional drag but I only ride for fun so unless very noticeable I wouldn’t give it much thought.

Upsides, no derailleur or hanger to bend or break (I know, I can go years without damaging a mech but then I can also do it three times in a couple of months if I get unlucky/clumsy) and the shifting is impervious to mud etc. The drivetrain has low ongoing running costs.  Both of mine are 12 speed gearboxes and the 600% range is more than I need (more in this case being better than less)

Maintenance wise mine have been as expected, an oil change every year.  The only additional hassle was the first belt tensioner on my Nicolai wore out in no time so had to be replaced, the replacement was a totally different design.  On the hard tail I run a chain so that has to be ‘Putolined’ once in a while (other lubes are available) and that is about it.

Really try to get a demo on a gearbox bike to see how you like it.  I love them, others don’t.

I’ve a Deviate Guide, with a pinion c1.12

Things I like about the gearbox

Huge (600%) range.
Light rear wheel, makes for great suspension performance.
Puts the weight from the cassette/mech central and low in the bike, feels great.
Perfect chain line, all the time.
Fully enclosed system.
Shifting whilst not pedalling.

Things I’m less keen on.

I hate gripshift. A trigger option is available from cinq innovations, which I much prefer, but it isn’t cheap, and isn’t perfect.
It’s heavy, not a massive issue though, as mentioned above.
There is more drag than a regular set up, to begin with. Feels like you are a gear harder than the speed you are going, if that makes sense, but this loosens up over time. I’m used to it now and it’s only if I swap straight from a regular bike that it’s noticeable.
Shifting under power is a no go. It’s better going to harder gears, but to easier gears you’ve to properly back off. It’s a technique you learn, but it’s something to think about when you first start riding one.
The freehub in the gear box doesn’t have many (14 I think) points of engagement, so might be an issue if you do techy ratchety climbs.

From that, I get that it sounds terrible, but the suspension performance benefits really make up for all the less good stuff, which you get used to.

This thread needs some pictures!

What’s the cost vs something conventional and top end like xtr di2?

Pictures? Only 50/50 chance I will get them to appear but here goes

Hardtail

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Hayters gonna hayte

A post shared by Adrian Clarke (@adrian_no68) on May 11, 2019 at 8:23am PDT

FS

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Zippity Do Dah – Fruita Colorado

A post shared by Adrian Clarke (@adrian_no68) on Sep 30, 2018 at 12:02pm PDT

Guides (and I think Zerodes are similar) are 3400 to 3600 frame and GB depending on shock, and stock full builds are 5-6k, so cheaper than your ‘boutique’ brand carbon frames and posh drivetrain, but not exactly a budget choice. Especially if you are on the fence about gearboxes.

Sonder posted a photo of the Signal with a Pinion gear box. One of their custom options

As a big fan of internal gears I did a lot of research last year, but eventually decided not to pull the trigger on a pinion frame.

It wasn’t the performance, but eventually the initial cost that put me off. But I’m still keen to go for it in the future 😉
In the end I went for Stooge MK4, and am looking to fit a Rohloff to it when Andy gets suitable dropouts in stock.

As above the top two hardtails that would have been on my list were the 18 bikes, and the Nordest Lacrau. I was erring towards the Lacrau.

I also had a convo with my mate Joe (he runs Black Lab Bikes) and he says he could get hold of a Pinion and build any custom frame one liked around it 😎 his frames are lovely, so would be worth a chat, and cost wise would be no more than a stock 18 or Nordest.

I really like the idea of a gearbox bike. Will be interesting to see if that Shimano patent actually appears as a product, I would be seriously tempted then…

ajantom – you can fit a rohloff in pretty much any dropouts!

Excellent, thanks for the input/feedback.

I definitely need to try one out, it’s a large outlay for something I like the idea of without any knowledge of how it’s actually going to work. I did try a Rohloff equipped Genesis CX bike a few years back and seem to remember not liking the jump between gear ratios. This was a good while ago now so things may have changed.

Gripshift, I was riding in the 90’s and I quite liked it! Of course, again things may have changed and a demo/test ride would answer that question!

I was thinking hardtail although I do bloody love my Nicolai so maybe I’m going about this all wrong 😛

ajantom – you can fit a rohloff in pretty much any dropouts

Well you can and you can’t.
The Stooge comes with 12 x 142 dropouts, which AFAIK, you can get a Rohloff kit for, but they don’t guarantee it will work all types of thru-axles.
It will however work fine with vertical dropouts, some of which Andy is getting in later in the year.