Gazumping…what would the assembled STW masses do???

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  • Gazumping…what would the assembled STW masses do???
  • aP
    Member

    I’ve heard rumours that gazundering is back.

    Premier Icon russyh
    Subscriber

    If it were me i would stick with the deal.  Sure £10k is a load of money, but your first offer was a chancer and is likely to try and chip you if so much as a pebble is out of place on the driveway as part of the survey.

    I would make your exsisting buyers aware of the offer over and above theirs to encourage a speedy hassle free exchange however.  Maybe its just me, bt having been gazumpt under similar circumstances before, personally if i was happy the first deal was progressable and of sound footing i wouldn’t want to partake …

    sbob
    Member

    Don’t kid yourself that if the tables were reversed they wouldn’t do it to you.

    Nice to hear from several posters that wobbliscott is wrong in this regard. 🙂

    Premier Icon piha
    Subscriber

    Gazumping is far from honourable.

    The question the OP and others, need to ask themselves would they like to be gazumped themselves? Once you’ve reached an agreement with someone, then stick to it.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    I’m very much of the mindset that we stick with the original offer and “Don’t be a Dick”.  The wife is taking more persuading as it is a lot of money.

    I completely agree that the over offerers will end being a massive PITA.

    The survey happened this morning, seemed to go well.

    I’m happy to let the people we’ve accepted an offer from know we’ve had a higher offer if only to make sure they don’t take their foot off the gas, if they choose to up their offer then that’s their decision but we won’t be asking for it.

    To be honest I just want it to go through smoothly with the minimum of stress and in a timely manner.

    Premier Icon madhouse
    Subscriber

    You got the price you asked for, the other party has spent plenty of time and money they really don’t want to loose.

    With my skeptical hat on if they’re willing to offer £10k above now and screw someone over what’s to stop them offering £20k less on exchange day? thus either forcing you to accept or risk the whole chain collapsing.

    We had it the other way around with the people we were buying off demanding more money – had to stump up an extra £5k or risk losing the house and the money sunk in solicitors fees. The English house buying process is a horrible one, there’s a fortune at stake and nothing’s certain until moving day.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    I’m very much of the mindset that we stick with the original offer and “Don’t be a Dick”.  The wife is taking more persuading as it is a lot of money.

    It is a lot of money but you have good reason to believe that you won’t actually get it. I’m of the view that if you’ve shaken hands, then you stick to the deal.

    hugo
    Member

    Don’t bring morals into it, It is, unfortunately, the rules of the game in this country. Part of the negotiation and risk and ‘nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, signed, sealed and delivered’.

    Unfortunately, true.

    You’ve said the 9ffer is acceptable, taken its off the market, but it’s nothing done and dusted until the ink dries.

    Premier Icon sas78
    Subscriber

    Sime strong opinions! But I think in the world of property you need to look after yourself.

    1.You could think of that financially and take the gazumping bid.

    2.You could look at it morally and honour the deal.

    3.You could look at the stress/hassle and honour the deal.

    You need to decide what is most important to you and ignore us “experts”!

    10k might be a drop in the ocean or a life changer.

    I still think the Scottish system is better and yes offers over isn’t perfect but generally when a deal is reached that’s it.

    Good luck OP. hope it works out for you and you ate happy at the end of the day. That’s the most important thing!

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    We were “invited” to gazump by an estate agent showing us round a house.

    This really pisses me off, and many estate agents do it and advertise on the boards “Sale Agreed” or “Sold” together with “Further Offers Accepted”, or similar.

    Though estate agents make the money on commission mostly from selling mortgages and insurance. Is it more benefit to get a higher price or to just get more people in the door potentially signing up to a mortgage even if they don’t end up with the house they wanted, so long as they end up with something.

    Premier Icon funkrodent
    Subscriber

    Don’t accept the gazumper. Morally wrong and will almost certainly lead you to a world of pain when the individual in question drops the price at the last minute..

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Though estate agents make the money on commission mostly from selling mortgages and insurance.

    do they?

    wobbliscott
    Member

    “Nice to hear from several posters that wobbliscott is wrong in this regard. ”

    Not wrong. Just a different opinion than most on this forum on this particular subject and that is fair enough. It’s easy for others to give an opinion about how to do things when they’ve got no involvement but they haven’t got £10k on the table. I’ve been gazumped, I’ve never gazumped others, but would I? depends like a lot of things in life. But it’s not actually £10k is it….it’s about £30 – £40k by the time you’ve added on your additional interest on the loan and stamp duty and other costs. Go on if it were a few grand it wouldn’t bother me, but at £10k+?…I can’t afford to give away that much, but if others can then that is fair enough.

    Don’t get me wrong, gazumping is deplorable, but a fact of life, but I went into the house buying process with my eyes wide open understanding the risks and knew the deal wasn’t done until the contracts were exchanged. The problem is people attached emotion to buying a house that they wouldn’t if they were buying a car or some other product. They’re quite happy to play used car salesmen off against eachother and go back on car deals at the very last minute, but when it comes to a house they somehow look at it differently…I don’t. It’s an object.

    Going in low and raising the price is no indication whatsoever of whether one interested party is more credible than any other. It is just as likely the person you’ve accepted the lower offer from could pull out of the deal last minute. Going in low and working your offer up is a perfectly normal, sensible and legitimate tactic. Far more transparent and honourable than someone going in higher, getting the price accepted then start trying to erode the deal once they’ve got you over a barrel once you’ve turned off all the other interested parties and it’s more of a PITA to pull out of the deal and put your house back on the market. You can’t trust anyone in this, anyone can be just waiting to exploit you – you have no way of telling who will and who wont.

    trail_rat
    Member

    “Going in low and working your offer up is a perfectly normal, sensible and legitimate tactic”

    The sooner that notion is quashed the better.

    Premier Icon TheGingerOne
    Subscriber

    Ask yourself how you would feel if you were gazumped. If you are fine with it, then accept the higher offer, if not, stick.

    Also, £10k is a lot of money on it’s own for many people. It is quite a lot of money if your house is selling for circa £150k, but it is nothing really if you are selling your house for £500k.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    At the moment I’m in the ‘you have nothing without a contract’ camp, having had a buyer pull out, the day of exchanging contracts, after 6 months of trying to get the deal through. (Timing was really lucky for the buyer actually, says he unexpectedly lost his job the day before, a Sunday. While that is sad, would have been a whole lot worse if it had been another 48 hours on eh?)

    what makes you so sure the asking price offerers won’t screw you later down the line?

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    Also, £10k is a lot of money on it’s own for many people. It is quite a lot of money if your house is selling for circa £150k, but it is nothing really if you are selling your house for £500k.

    it’s still the same £10K!  It might be less significant in proportion to overall finances, but it will still buy the exact same number of bikes, credit card bills etc,

    It’s that sort of holiday dosh/bank of never-never/ time value of money that’s helped inflate house prices in this country!

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    “Going in low and working your offer up is a perfectly normal, sensible and legitimate tactic”

    The sooner that notion is quashed the better.

    How else are you going to find the market price of something unique (ish*) with limited competition and an optimistic starting price?

    * yeah, I know

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    what makes you so sure the asking price offerers won’t screw you later down the line?

    You can’t be. But you can make an educated guess based on their behaviour to date, and the behaviour of the would-be gazumpers.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Sealed bid auctions work quite well up here.

    Saves the knobishness of if the first bid doesn’t offend it’s too high.

    If your first offer offends you may find that your noo longer considered a legit bidder

    Premier Icon dannybgoode
    Subscriber

    I would never accept a higher offer if I’d already committed to a buyer. Sure there’s nothing legally stopping you doing it but I’m too am firmly in the ‘don’t be a dick’ camp.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    The sooner that notion is quashed the better.

    It’s not a bad tactic, but people who routinely employ it should be mindful that they risk losing the property if they dick around too much with low offers. As long as you’re happy to walk away and miss out (which this lot don’t appear to be) then go for it.

    That’s the beauty of ‘gaming the system’ – occasionally you’ll lose out.

    Premier Icon deadkenny
    Subscriber

    do they?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/dodgy-estate-agent-tactics-leave-buyers-sellers-pocket/

    There’s a joke among estate agents that they no longer sell houses – instead, they increasingly profit from mortgage broking and conveyancing services, causing buyers and sellers to lose out.

    “It’s all about selling mortgages these days,” said Jenny*, who has worked in the industry for 10 years at a large chain based in the South East.

    dannyh
    Member

    It’s not a bad tactic

    Assuming you are dealing with someone of a similar mindset.

    I have already said to my wife that our last house move would be the last – so I’m happy I wont be going through it again anytime soon.

    Problem is, I now hear a lot about expensive things ‘that need doing on the house’ that are necessitated because I won’t move to a house that already has those things……..

    Our last move was literally over the road – 20 yards max. the people who bought from us are nice folk and we get on pretty well – not like a house on fire, but just usual quick chats here and there. Thing is, even they lied to us – not got any more money, trying to beat us down etc, etc.

    What they meant by “not got any more money” was not got any more money after refurnishing the whole of the downstairs with new sofas etc and having a new car.

    Thankfully not going to be doing it again any time soon……

    Premier Icon andytheadequate
    Subscriber

    House buying involves a lot of risk and you need to be able to trust the people in your immediate chain. I’d be suspicious of the person who’s offering more after making lower offers so would stick to the original person.

    Obviously there’s also the moral consideration. If your other buyer hasn’t paid for a solicitor or other fees yet then it’s not a massive deal, but if they have it’s a scummy move.

    MrSmith
    Member

    I’d be suspicious of the person who’s offering more after making lower offers

    Eh? That’s standard practice when buying property, why overpay? I went up in 5k increments and then played hardball and said ‘that’s it there is no more money available’ when the agent gave a figure that would secure it (another 5k)

    unless the market is going nutty and you can’t even see a property as it’s gone in hours or you are there with 40 others on viewing day you are mad to offer your limit straight away.

    dannyh
    Member

    I went up in 5k increments and then played hardball and said ‘that’s it there is no more money available’ when the agent gave a figure that would secure it (another 5k)

    Sorry, but anyone who proudly states they ‘played hardball’ to screw value out of people is a pillock. Does that story result in loads of mates buying you beers and slapping you on the back and telling you what a great guy you are? If the answer to that question is ‘yes’ then it sounds like a pub I’d walk straight back out of.

    It is just another way of saying “I behave badly because everyone else does, but I do it better than them”.

    Jujuuk68
    Member

    It’s regrettable but all views are “correct”.

    It’s the most valuable thing you own.  The price is “estimated” by an agent, who may or may not be very good at his job, and market value is really what someone is prepared to pay you for it.  You don’t owe anyone £10k just to feel good about yourself.

    However, its not really “10k”. In reality, it’s a tiny bit off the large future mortgage you have, and when inflation is concerned, might make a few months difference to the date of your final payments in 20 years time, or literally, a few quid a month difference on the mortgage payments today each month.  It’s not like you’ll probably see £10k in your bank account cleared, and ready to spend on a Santa Cruz and a VW Camper.

    And unless the new buyer isn’t reliant on a mortgage, or has that £10k over and above the deposit sat there, any surveyor might, in this rapidly stagnating brexit market, with a view to his own indemnity insurance, downvalue the property anyway, and so the purchaser with the extra £10k doesn’t really have the £10k as it’s taken from the mortgage funds available.

    You might also ask, if that person, knowing they’re paying over the odds, sees a vacant possession house, like yours but £10k less, will they drop you like a stone? Or as other people have said, look to lock you in and recover some on the post survey haggle?

    MrSmith
    Member

    Sorry, but anyone who proudly states they ‘played hardball’ to screw value out of people is a pillock. Does that story result in loads of mates buying you beers and slapping you on the back and telling you what a great guy you are? If the answer to that question is ‘yes’ then it sounds like a pub I’d walk straight back out of.

    It is just another way of saying “I behave badly because everyone else does, but I do it better than them”.

    LOL. No, It’s hardly a funny story for dinner party conversation. It doesn’t make me a bad person either by sticking to my guns about how much I want to pay and offering lower, you can go up but you can’t go down. Well you can but that’s not the decent thing is it?

    You have to ask who else was playing hardball? The agent was trying to get as much out of me as he could, that’s his job to secure the best price and speedy transaction for his client.

    i went to my max (just short of what he said “would secure the deal” and let them know that was it and there wouldn’t be another higher offer (I couldn’t without selling selling something or borrowing on a credit card).

    its just buying houses not some Trump deal for billions!

    making a big ethical issue and name calling because of offering slightly under, then raising your offer and finally saying that’s it is certainly the work of a right weapon.

    slackalice
    Member

    Yep, an extra £10k would come in very handy. However, if it were me in the OP’s position, I would use the higher offer as leverage to ensure the original offer is completed ‘swiftly’.

    I would then let the higher bidder know that if they can be next in line, if the first sale falls through and at their new high offer, with the extra £10k deposited with my solicitor as their commitment.

    Itll certainly focus people on getting the unnecessarily tedious process we have in England, done.

    HTH 😃

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    Well…we had another handwritten letter put through our door last night pleading to buy our house.

    They seem to be struggling with the fact that we accepted an asking price offer whilst they were messing about offering under asking.

    To be honest we’re running a mile as this feels all a bit odd to be honest and we have told our EA to politely decline as we have accepted an offer already.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Ha – I bet one of them was trying to play hardball and is now getting it big-time from their partner who really liked the place

    I’d still tell them you’re going to honour the acceptance of the other offer but that they’ll be first to hear if that falls though, and ask what their timescale and chain is like

    dannyh
    Member

    Scaredypants has it.

    Sounds like classic “don’t worry, I’ll handle this” by one half of the couple backfiring and now they’re grovelling around trying to sort it!

    No harm in doing what scaredypants says: engage with them, but be up-front that they are definitely first alternate and no more. The trouble is, that in this ridiculous world of cat and mouse, you going back to them will confirm that you’ve lost your original buyer and their offer – cue some more game-playing as they try to knock you back down to asking price.

    It’s a frustrating and stressful process – the only real way to mitigate this is to decide to move house well in advance of any pressing need to do so. By being ‘organised’ like this, you minimise the pressure around the actual transaction, but who arranges their life like that??

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    To be honest we don’t NEED to move and will be moving round the corner.

    We just could do with more space as mt boys are getting bigger and one bathroom/loo is becoming an issue.

    Our seller is pretty chill as he wants to buy off plan somewhere but can move in with his GF or something in the short term if need be.  So if we had to go back on the market then it wouldn’t be the end of the world. Also ours sold in about 15mins anyway…

    Premier Icon TomB
    Subscriber

    Hand written notes though the door = buyer trying to circumvent ‘the system’. Offers go through the agent, unless you don’t have one. I would be wary of this buyer chancing it in other areas of the process.

    The other consideration is the position of the 2 potential buyers- ready to pay, mortgage in place, no downward chain?

    Gazumping (and gazundering) is a dick move, not to be encouraged.

    Premier Icon nevisthecat
    Subscriber

    Whilst the cobblers children are often ill shod, my spider sense and 25 years in property, tells me that the over bidders are bad news.

    1) Overbidding is easy to get a contract

    2) Chipping at the 11th hour, them knowing that you’ve spunked your previous buyer and now in a corner is a very tempting opportunity for them to save a few quid

    3) As someone has said upthread, they can offer what they like, but if their over bid does not meet their mortgage criteria, they will need to find the extra cash

    4) Buying and selling mostly relies on goodwill. Even with the niche commercial stuff I buy and sell we try to find a common ground. Acting like a poundshop Donald Trump or Apprentice candidate tends to backfire

    5) Go with your existing buyer, but make them aware you have received this bid. Not to push them higher, but to crystallise their mind and prevent any delays – helps them keep on top of their solicitor

    6) Notes through doors are iffy. Again, as up thread, all offers should go through the agent, and make your agent manage this process, it’s what you pay them for.

    7) They may have done this to several sellers, ready to cherry pick the one that bites, and then it’s 7 goto 2

    8) It’s all about how much you want to risk that extra £10k. Do you go with reasonable prospect or dubious overbidding note monkey for the price of a well specced Turner?

    Ro5ey
    Member

    Maybe the gazumper REALLY wants your house ??

    Nothing to say they are dodgy….They might have been looking for ages…?

    Tell them its theirs for 20k more….. then agree at 15k more ??

    I’m not joking … give it a try … what have you got to lose? … Might change your thinking on your original question.

    Good luck

    Edit …. Your house sold in 15min  !!! …  Then it was on at the wrong price if you ask me … no wonder the Gazumpers are coming back … even at their higher price your house might still be cheap/a steal  !! ?? !!

    Good luck

    I’m defo in the don’t be a dick gang as I remember my parents getting gazumped back in the 80’s and the stress it put mum under as we were literally about to exchange. With that memory the 10k would be tainted for me and there’s more to life then cash.

    I also hate hose buying/selling in England. I’m currently having to rush about preparing ours for sale as my wife and I decided last week to move to the village where her parents live and where my son will go to school from September. First look on rightmove brought up a perfect house at the right price but ours isn’t on the market yet. Problem is the village has limited stock at the size/price we want and this one will sell quickly so we’ll probably miss it (informed estate agent we will be happy to offer asking when we are in a position to).

    If we do miss it the dilemma is do we still put ours on the market? Ours should also sell relatively quickly but it could be a year or more before another suitable house becomes available in the village so we could be stuck with no where to buy. The other option is to prepare it for sale but not put it on the market until we see another house we want but run the risk of missing another. Gaar.

    To make it worse we really like our house but moving would make life a lot easier come autumn.

    wrecker
    Member

    It’s tough shit on the first viewer for lowballing you in the first place. I’d certainly let the second viewer know that you are turning down a higher offer to stick with them though.

    dannyh
    Member

    making a big ethical issue and name calling because of offering slightly under, then raising your offer and finally saying that’s it is certainly the work of a right weapon.

    I agree that that dishonesty is a big ethical issue.

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