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  • Gaza
  • somafunk
    Full Member

    How ironic that a government which illegally occupies land should accuse the United Nations of illegally occupying land.

    “That” Mitchell & Webb sketch springs to mind

    5
    fatmountain
    Free Member

    For me, on a personal level, I just simply cannot comprehend the images coming out of Gaza now. They follow me on my walks and in my dreams or waking thoughts. It’s impossible to not superimpose my own children/nieces/nephews onto the faces of maimed, charred tiny bodies or in the faces of pure terror and their inability to comprehend an endless atrocity.

    That a modern, well-armed, nation state can visit this level of destruction and inhumanity on a starved, defeated, and utterly defenceless civilian population and with total impunity is both an affront and a disgrace to which the immense lose, sacrifice and hard-fought victories of the 20th century stood for. Never again, it was once said, could a nation state prosecute such atrocity, but evidently it can, and will, but nobody is coming to save the people of Gaza.

    It’s hard not to conclude that Israel, as a respectable, modern state, is finished.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    By their actions they could easily be classed as a rogue state, but you are forgetting, Israel is the most righteous of nations.

    1
    TheFlyingOx
    Full Member

    UNRWA currently supplies most of the aid to Palestinians facing starvation and homelessness due to the terrorist actions of the IDF, so the determination to shut them down is understandable.

    On the other hand UNRWA appears to also steal that aid so they can sell it – https://unwatch.org/the-case-against-unrwa/

    Palestinians are getting shafted from every direction.

    2
    somafunk
    Full Member

    On the other hand UNRWA appears to also steal that aid so they can sell it

    That unwatch group are rather suspect, little more than another Israeli lobbying organisation

    3
    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    UN watch appears to be a Zionist entity, so i’ll hazard a guess they’re a touch biased. They seem to have one goal. To destroy any help or support being offered to the Palestinian people and de-legitimize their right to live in Palestine

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Meanwhile the IDF are using quadcopter drones to shoot civilians as they attempt to return to Jabayla, perfectly normal behaviour.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    UN watch appears to be a Zionist entity

    I think it is safe to say that any campaigning organisation which has the word “Watch” in its name has its own agenda.

    It doesn’t mean that they are wrong of course but it does mean that they are not simply neutral observers.

    1
    ernielynch
    Free Member
    PJay
    Free Member

    I don’t really have the intellect or background knowledge to keep up with this thread but wanted to flag up the BBC’s Storyville “Praying for Armageddon” which looks at America’s Evangelical Christains’ & Christian Zionists’ overwhelming support for Israel & their huge influence over American politics & foreign policy to this effect.

    In essence it’s a belief that Israel’s re-establishment of biblical borders & control over Jerusalem would fulfil biblical prophecy, hastening Armageddon & the 2nd coming of Christ.

    It’s truly scary.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    The irony is that Israel has pretty much ethnically cleansed Palestine of Christians.  Although they were never large in number Christian Palestinians are all but non-existent in Palestine these days.

    Christian Palestinians do however make up a quite significant minority among the Palestinian diaspora who were expelled from their homes and scattered across the world. For example there are over a quarter of a million Palestinians in Honduras of which 95% are Christians.

    Having said all that Palestinians who are Christians  are overwhelmingly either Eastern Orthodox or Catholic (not much difference between the two) so they have very little in common with American Evangelical Christians, pretty much nothing really.

    And the good news is that despite their previous power and influence, like the zionists in Israel, the zionists in the United States are losing their grip on the narrative :

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

    It is now the anti-zionists who are starting to influence US politics – they could have a significant effect in key states.

    Edit: That poll was taken a couple of months ago so before the current onslaught in Rafah, it will only have changed in one direction.  Killing children isn’t popular.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    It’s truly scary.

    Is that the one where they talk about a “red heifer” to sacrifice?, yep…..the US evangelicals and how they have been allowed to grow in power/influence will be the end of the USA.

    PJay
    Free Member

    Sorry, I should have included the link in the post:-

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001z96s/storyville-praying-for-armageddon

    1
    BillMC
    Full Member

    Gideon Levy on Gaza

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLdWRawqiHQ&t=909s

    wind it back to the beginning

    kelvin
    Full Member

    The irony is that Israel has pretty much ethnically cleansed Palestine of Christians.  Although they were never large in number Christian Palestinians are all but non-existent in Palestine these days.

    The displacement of Christians isn’t just about the actions of Israeli governments though of course…  they have been increasing marginalised this century by Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    they have been increasing marginalised this century by Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

    Eh? You think, for example, that there a quarter of a million Christian Palestinians living in Honduras because of Hamas?

    I will remind you that the Holy Family Catholic church in northern Gaza which was repeatedly targeted by Israeli snipers and missiles just before Christmas was fully functioning and untouched by the Hamas administration before the IDF onslaught.

    It is the IDF who have been killing Christian Palestinians not Hamas.

    The same is true in the West Bank, the only threat to Christian Palestinians comes from the IDF and Israeli settlers, not the PLO.

    3
    somafunk
    Full Member

    All this talk of d-day….never again etc…etc

    Meanwhile Israel drops US bombs on a UN run school compound in the Nuseirat refugee camp killing at least 45, yet more pictures of decapitated children whilst Israel looks under rocks, shouts “HAMAS” and drops bombs.

    Genocidal ****.

    1
    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Well yeah, but obvious Western hypocrisy is not being lost on the people of the Global South.

    And with each new day that arrives the apartheid regime seems to lose more friends in the West.

    The latest today:

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/spain-applies-join-south-africas-case-top-court-110887564

    Spain became on Thursday the first European country to ask a United Nations court for permission to join South Africa’s case accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza.

    1
    ossify
    Full Member

    AsiaToday… Stupid clickbait article biased to make Israel look bad, if you ask me.

    “Israel drops more bombs than WWII!!!1!!”

    Actually, they mean more bombs than were dropped on just 3 cities in specific time periods ranging between 1 year and 1 month. What a worthless comparison.

    DISCLAIMER: this post is not defending Israel. Just pointing out that the article is stupid.

    What happened to unbiased reporting? It’s not like Israel need any help looking bad, and bad reporting like this tends to make me ignore or write off anything the source says as unreliable.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Of course it is designed to make Israel look bad! It is attempt to give some sort of perspective to the amount of bombs that Israel has dropped on the people of Gaza.

    I am not interested in the unbiased reporting of a genocide. Asia Today like other outlets is reporting a press release from Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor.

    Unless you can provide evidence that the claims made by EuroMed Human Rights Monitor are false I don’t understand what your problem is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Mediterranean_Human_Rights_Monitor

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor”. 

    – Desmond Tutu

    2
    ossify
    Full Member

    I am not interested in the unbiased report of a genocide.

    I am, from a news outlet. An article or opinion piece can say whatever they like.

    Asia Today like other outlets is reporting a press release from Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor.

    I have no issue with that. But the press release says Israel dropped 70,000 tons of bombs, granted it’s a huge amount. What Asia Today are also doing is making up (effectively) fake headlines by doing stupid comparisons.

    Can’t find official  figures but look here, where it says the amount of bombs dropped by the USAF alone during WW2 was around 2.5 million tons. Israel has dropped nowhere close to the amount of bombs during WW2. It makes me lose confidence in the accuracy of anything they say TBH.

    1
    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Asia Today makes it crystal clear that they are referring to the bombs dropped on Dresden, Hamburg and London during World War 2. It’s there in black and white, you don’t even have to click on the link for that to be clear.

    I reckon your problem is that as you quite rightly point out it is designed to make Israel look bad.

    Israel is happily killing, starving, and maiming, thousands of children, that harsh reality must not be forgotten.

    Making a comparison with the amount of bombs dropped on Dresden, Hamburg and London during World War 2 is an excellent way of reminding people.

    1
    ossify
    Full Member

    This is what I have a problem with:

    Israel has Dropped 70 Thousand Tons of Bombs on Gaza, Surpassing World War II

    And not with the simple fact that it’s designed to make Israel look bad. Despite me saying I prefer unbiased reporting (which I do), I’m largely in agreement with your general point.

    Israel is happily killing, starving, and maiming, thousands of children, that harsh reality must not be forgotten.

    Making a comparison with the amount of bombs dropped on Dresden, Hamburg and London during World War 2 is an excellent way of reminding people.

    Absolutely. But a better article would be, say,  reporting that Israel has dropped 70,000 tons of bombs, and pointing out in the article that this is more than the total amount of bombs dropped on Dresden etc during WW2.

    As it is, with a nonsense headline and the article stating specific (and different) time periods for each city so they can get the total they are looking for, it’s not the kind of article I’m interested in. I will be just as (in fact, more) horrified at what Israel is doing by reading this from a less sensationalist source.

    For a silly comparison: What would you think of a mtb mag article saying “This is the fastest bike of the year!” and the article clarifying that actually it’s faster than all Halfords bikes built during February? Maybe it is the fastest bike. But who cares, I’ve already written off the article as BS and gone elsewhere.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    You called it a “Stupid clickbait article biased to make Israel look bad”, if it’s only the wording of the headline that is a problem then that’s another story imo.

    I don’t get why the reporting of the crimes committed by the Israeli apartheid state should be from a neutral perspective.

    Back in the days of apartheid in South Africa no one demanded that the racist white supremacists should be given a fair hearing and treated from a neutral perspective.

    And the current Israeli apartheid regime is an incomparable worse tyranny than South African apartheid was. In comparison with Israel few massacres occurred in apartheid South Africa, in fact I can only think of two – the Sharpeville Massacre and the Soweto Massacre.

    69 were killed in the Sharpeville Massacre, which is less than the IDF typically kills in a couple of hours, the total number killed in the Soweto Massacre is unknown but Israel regularly kills more than the maximum estimate in a single day.

    In many ways comparing Netanyahu and his far-right government with South African apartheid is insulting to the former white supremacists of South Africa, they weren’t that uncivilised.

    alpin
    Free Member

    make Israel look bad.

    They’re doing a pretty good job regardless of the headline.

    1
    TheFlyingOx
    Full Member

    I think it is safe to say that any campaigning organisation which has the word “Watch” in its name has its own agenda.

    But the word “Monitor” is A-OK.

    And Ossify has a point – “Israel dropped as many bombs in 10 months as the Allies did in 3 nights” is a bit of a daft comparison, and under scrutiny probably doesn’t get across the point the author was aiming for.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    And Ossify has a point – “Israel dropped as many bombs in 10 months as the Allies did in 3 nights” is a bit of a daft comparison

    Which presumably is why they didn’t make the comparison. The comparison they actually made is that the 70 thousand tons of bombs dropped on the people of Gaza far exceeds the bombs used in Dresden, Hamburg and London during World War II.

    Read it, it is crystal clear. Or are you suggesting that dropping 70 thousands of tons of bombs on civilians in 2023-24 is okay?

    And yes of course EuroMed Human Rights Monitor have an agenda, the clue is in the name! There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an agenda, I merely pointed out that your source attacking UNRWA probably had one and wasn’t neutral.

    So anyway back to today’s news…..Spain has become the first European country to ask a United Nations court for permission to join South Africa’s case accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza. Any views on that?

    somafunk
    Full Member

    As it is, with a nonsense headline and the article stating specific (and different) time periods for each city so they can get the total they are looking for, it’s not the kind of article I’m interested in. I will be just as (in fact, more) horrified at what Israel is doing by reading this from a less sensationalist source.

    I made a very similar comparison regarding the quotes of the Hamas massacre of Oct 7th, decapitated babies, pregnant mothers cut open, babies in ovens etc – all unsubstantiated and no evidence yet that has been verified. Talking heads such as Biden corroborated such false statements.

    The Oct 7th massacre was absolutely foul enough without making shit up.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    The ‘tonnage’ of bombs doesn’t account for the fact that the bombs would have a lot more bang than they did 80 years ago.

    https://youtu.be/ecWUdwkelvM?si=kUdhVz_w9YDNOfrE

    1
    TheFlyingOx
    Full Member

    Or are you suggesting that dropping 70 thousands of tons of bombs on civilians in 2023-24 is okay?

    You are making some WILD leaps of logic if you think I am suggesting such a thing.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    bombs would have a lot more bang than they did 80 years ago.

    I think that the main aim is to make a comparison with European cities such as London and Hamburg, not necessarily the devastation that the bombs caused.

    I reckon most people are aware that Gaza has been reduced to rumble by the IDF, people are being asked to see it in terms of a European city because the destruction of European cities is generally seen as less acceptable.

    1
    argee
    Full Member

    I reckon most people are aware that Gaza has been reduced to rumble by the IDF, people are being asked to see in terms of a European city because the destruction of European cities is generally seen as less acceptable.

    I doubt anyone is seeing either as acceptable, the reality is that nobody is able to stop Israel from continuing their onslaught, they are not scared of being pariahs, they aren’t blinking at any of the US threats, they are using it to continue to get backing from their citizens, and until that stops, i can’t see an end to this death and destruction.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    You are making some WILD leaps of logic if you think I am suggesting such a thing.

    No leaps of logic – I am asking you a question because you appear to playing down to point that EuroMed Human Rights Monitor is trying to make, ie, 70 thousand tons of bombs dropped on the people of Gaza is horrific.

    1
    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Or are you suggesting that dropping 70 thousands of tons of bombs on civilians in 2023-24 is okay?

    Course he isn’t. and it’s damned outrageous for you to suggest he is :x

    1
    ernielynch
    Free Member

    nobody is able to stop Israel from continuing their onslaught

    Oh they are. Israel is very dependent on bombs supplied by a UK NATO ally to destroy Gaza.

    If the will in the West was there a great deal could be done to stop Israel.

    1
    argee
    Full Member

    Oh they are. Israel is very dependent on bombs supplied by a UK NATO ally to destroy Gaza.

    If the will in the West was there a great deal could be done to stop Israel.

    If the US stop supplying them, then yes, they will be in trouble, but i cannot see the US dropping Israel like that as it’s a domino they don’t want to topple.

    Also worth noting that Israel have a huge arms industry themselves, more than the UK have in terms of manufacturing bombs and explosives!

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Course he isn’t. and it’s damned outrageous for you to suggest he is 😡

    I made no suggestion. It was a very clear question.

    Plenty of people believe that it perfectly okay for Israel to drop 70 thousands of tons of bombs on civilians in Gaza, including the UK government, which is why Israel keeps receiving supplies of bombs.

    Plenty of people in Israel think it is okay too, the majority in fact it would appear. Why wouldn’t TheFlying0x be one of them? Any particular reason?

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