A Summer of Cricket – SPOILERS

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  • A Summer of Cricket – SPOILERS
  • yossarian
    Member

    Caught off a thick edge that wasn’t spotted by the umpires. The Aussies couldn’t review as they’d used their quota up.

    Hmmm, bit sad that. Excuse the mixed sports but as a hooker I knew all about bending the rules but there are/were always limits IMO. To come back to cricket, walking is one of them.

    The good thing in cricket and other sport is that karma exists. Broad will get a “bad one” at some important stage in the future. Much better to have posititve karma in the bank though.

    Talking to my son, his county playing mates say that the county coaching line is never walk, so I am just an old ruddy duddy!

    Well done Belly – round it off tomorrow with a 150.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Boycs – who I generally despise- made some good points

    Basically if Broad walks will Trott get to bat again?
    They get bad decisons all the time so why should they walk?
    Why is it ok for bowlers to claim for stuff they know is not a wicket and let the batter be out but only the batter has to “walk ” or be honest.

    No one walks anymore unless it is blatant and they have an appeal left 😉

    Because their out (edit bowlers shouldnt do it either BTW *)

    But karma works in both directions – the difference is that Trott has a credit whereas Broad has a debit. I know which I would prefer!

    I appreciate that people do not walk anymore, hence it is a shame. But no matter, what goes around comes around.

    Anyway, it will be in the highlights in a minute!

    * but guilty myself as at school/Uni we used to liven up slip fielding but the occassional spoof the umpire plays. Wouldn’t do it now though!

    Junkyard
    Member

    But karma works in both directions

    I think that was his point Trotts howler is cancelled out by Trott not walking and getting a good one.
    Perhaps the decision on Agar cancels out Broads

    Either way been some shockers by the Umps and also by the Third umpire

    I do agree it would be better if they walked but only the batsman has to be honest

    …and by the Aussies using up their appeals judging by the highlights!

    Junkyard
    Member

    watching TdF first as the kids prefer that to the Cricket

    Youngest is impressed he can name all the [classification]Jerseys

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Re: Broadgate: liked the comment on one of the cricket pages:

    “At times like this, I ask myself: ‘What would Steve Waugh do?'”

    Oops,(highlights on CH5) sorry not only a howler from the umps, but you can’t stand there with that one!?! Poor show IMO.

    athgray
    Member

    The umpire had a shocker with that Broad dismissal.

    grum
    Member

    There’s some massively sanctimonius frothing going on in the comments section of the Guardian’s match report. No-one complains about constant appeals on often ludicrous shouts. I remember Pakistan being terrible for this in the series in the UAE.

    Premier Icon boxelder
    Subscriber

    though granted they didn’t have Agar in that series

    I’ll wager he doesn’t score over 38 again in this series.

    Not sure if it would be better if Broad is out cheaply in the morning or blasts another 50. DRS eroded the gentleman’s walk – terminally I reckon. When was the last time a batsman walked (when the fielding side had no more reviews?)

    yossarian
    Member

    When was the last time a batsman walked (when the fielding side had no more reviews

    Today, Bairstow, about an hour before Broad didn’t. 🙂

    psychle
    Member

    Morning (or evening) all… well well well, things have taken a turn for the worse for the Aussies haven’t they? Not much chance of pulling this one out of the fire now, about the same odds as Agar scoring 98 at number 11 I guess, so anything is possible, must keep a positive attitude what what. But it’s probably asking a bit too much of the cricketing deities for a second Miracle of Trentbridge… Needed to get Bell early, before his 50, didn’t do it and that’s that unfortunately. Maybe a poor decision to take the new ball, Agar seemed to be generating chances and it was swinging so the quicks were doing the same, but again, you makes your decisions and takes your chances, sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don’t.

    Simple fact of this game is that our ‘batsman’ didn’t do their job in the first innings, we should have had a lead of 150-200 which would still have us in a winning position even now. If Agar hadn’t performed so heroically and unexpectedly then the game would have been over yesterday evening, he’s the only reason we even had a shot at this one…

    Now, Stuart Broad… sorry, but that was outright cheating, it’s not like it was a 50/50 call, he practically late cut it to first slip, how on earth the umpire ‘missed it’ one can only speculate, but that was appalling… Bairstow ‘walked’ earlier in the day for a much finer edge (granted the umpire did raise his finger, but the batsman was already turned away and walking). The sheer gumption and gall of Broad to stand there was just not right, and I’d say the same for any Australian batsman…. just a low act and he should be ashamed of himself.

    Now you lot are going to say what about Agar and Trott, but they were different, you must admit that? Agar, there was definite benefit of the doubt, Trott, well he probably got a rough call, but you get those in Cricket… Broad wasn’t a rough call, he knew he was out, for whatever reason the umpire didn’t raise his finger, but that doesn’t change the fact that he knew he was out and decided to ignore that fact and in effect cheat, just poor poor form…

    Having said all that, his wicket wouldn’t/won’t change the course of this game, that happened on the morning of day two… England should win this one, but I think people will now have to admit that the series is going to be perhaps a bit closer than previously thought, fingers crossed.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    psychle – here’s a video of your captain outright cheating

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rY_hDEKLtQ[/video]

    yossarian
    Member

    Not sure I agree with you re. Broad (and not cause he’s a Pom). You aren’t out until the umpire gives you out. What if you walk and the umpire signals an nb/wide etc etc when your back is turned and you get run out? You are out when that finger goes up, not before. This isn’t a Sunday league match, it’s the bloody ashes, the pinnacle. The opposition are probably ball tampering, one of umpires is maybe being paid by a far east betting syndicate and one of team mayes is texting his mate on the other side with ways to get you out 🙂 You wait until you are given out. As for sportsmanship, give over. That disappeared decades ago before sledging, excessive appealing and bodyline.

    All that said I hope broad goes quickly tomorrow.

    Premier Icon boxelder
    Subscriber

    All that said I hope broad goes quickly tomorrow.

    Why – because you know he was out and feel bad?

    Today, Bairstow, about an hour before Broad didn’t.

    Really – why no mention from the Aussies?

    yossarian
    Member

    Why – because you know he was out and feel bad?

    Yes, I don’t blame him for not walking as detailed above but yes I hope he goes cheaply tomorrow.

    Premier Icon boxelder
    Subscriber

    Who would have thought, 3 yrs ago, that an ‘individual from these Isles’ would win W’don, Brits would have a grip on retaining the Maillott Jaune, while another wins stages in TDF and 98 from a debutant Aussie No.11 still wouldn’t win a test.
    Still 47 years of hurt though (# ditch fussball)

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Yes, I don’t blame him for not walking as detailed above but yes I hope he goes cheaply tomorrow.

    If and when he does, I hope the Australians recall Trott to have another go.

    zokes
    Member

    [Quote]Now, Stuart Broad… sorry, but that was outright cheating, it’s not like it was a 50/50 call, he practically late cut it to first slip, how on earth the umpire ‘missed it’ one can only speculate, but that was appalling… Bairstow ‘walked’ earlier in the day for a much finer edge (granted the umpire did raise his finger, but the batsman was already turned away and walking). The sheer gumption and gall of Broad to stand there was just not right, and I’d say the same for any Australian batsman…. just a low act and he should be ashamed of himself.[/quote]

    He sounds like an Aussie by this description. Don’t like it up ’em eh?

    Yes, it’s unseemly, but, it’s also partially captain fantastic s fault for wasting your DRS appeals on half chances.

    Also, as has been noted, it’s not as if you guys haven’t already survived some calls where you should have gone, seaweed man being the most obvious

    psychle
    Member

    Bah, Agar was a fair call, there was no definitive proof on any replay that showed he didn’t have any part of his foot/boot just behind the line, so fair enough to give the benefit of the doubt to the batsman. Trott, well I’ll admit I haven’t seen this one so won’t comment until I have, can’t seem to find a video of it though (someone feel free to find it and post it for me 🙂 )

    Yep, Clarke wasted his DRS appeals, but there’s no way he should have had to even think about reviewing Broads dismissal… stupid appalling umpiring, I reckon that’s the last we’ll see of Dar for a few tests…

    On another point, is it just me or are the umpires excessively asking for reviews of no-balls after every wicket an Aussie bowler takes? Maybe I haven’t been paying attention but I don’t think they’ve asked for as many off English bowlers, have they (I honestly don’t know)?

    zokes
    Member

    Yep, Clarke wasted his DRS appeals, but there’s no way he should have had to even think about reviewing Broads dismissal… stupid appalling umpiring, I reckon that’s the last we’ll see of Dar for a few tests…

    Stupid appalling umpiring is why DRS was introduced, that’s why it has to definitively prove the on-field umpire wrong, and 50/50s go with the on-field decision. If I know this as a spectator, I’d expect Clarke as international captain to be across it also. One review he wasted was both missing by the width of the stumps, and clearly pitching outside the line. That was the review that would have ensured the right thing happened to broad.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I saw the LBW appeal and thought it was wasted and would come back to haunt him. The game could turn on umpiring but they seem to be evening each other out, Trott and the non functional hot spot, Agar would have gone if the light was different you you would have seen the gap under his foot etc.

    psychle
    Member

    Won’t argue that point. The DRS is there for the howler (such as the Broad incident, though IMHO that goes beyond howler and into a whole other realm, “hypersonic screaming balls up” perhaps?) But all teams are guilty of using it to try and overturn marginal calls, maybe this’ll teach Clarke (and other Captains) to keep them in hand… I think the reason Clarke reviewed the LBW was because the umpire indicated the batsman had hit it (which he didn’t) and they obviously thought that the umpire might’ve given it otherwise, bad call as it turned out (and Haddin should’ve done better to advise his skipper of the fact he was moving to the legside to take the ball!)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I might just add it’s not a good idea to discuss the finer points of this with an Aussie while trying to thread my your way through a tight set of rock drops.

    Damm Karma

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Morning all. Missed commenting last night, internet issues. Thought broadigate would be a hot topic.

    Two points.

    1 – it’s top level sport, not a jazz hat game. Batters bat, bowlers bowl, umpires umpire. For better or worse, if he gives you out you go, if he doesnt , stand there. Sure drs is supposed to allow you to appeal the howler, that’s where Clarke gets it wrong, he uses them on perhaps and maybes. Maybe he’ll learn from it.

    2 – I’m going to stand up for the umpires here. It wasn’t as bad as it looked. Broad didn’t edge to slip, it was a late cut feather edge that haddin spilled to first slip. At full speed, very easy for the umpire to know that haddin had gloved it but also very possible to not be sure that broad had edged it. Have any of the haterz umpired at any level? Do they know how hard it is. Again, comes back to drs but this is where it is used wrong. He’d have known pretty instantly he’d made a mistake, he should be able to go upstairs and ask for help. I’m not saying to review every decision, that undermines the point of an on field umpire, but be there to give help if he asks for it.

    Will karma bite back? Is it already karma for the hundred trott was going to make or the 90-odd agar got after he was out (possibly). Will the aussies think we’re all against them and crumble. Or will Lehman galvanise them into a f- you all, we’ll show you response. The next hour will be critical. Isn’t test cricket fabulous.

    Lastly – well played belly. Lots of pressure answered brilliantly, you’ve gone a fair way to winning this game for us. Get the hundred this morning, you deserve it.

    TOJ – among all of this there is a simple fact – Broad cheated. Now as I suggested earlier there are “degrees of cheating” if that makes sense? Nevertheless, this was about as blatant as you could get. But I don’t see the top level sport issue. This is the pinnacle of cricket now being debased by blatant cheating. There was no marginal edge, glove or arm, bat or pad. This was a clear misplayed cut that went straight into the slips hands. If this is acceptable simple because it’s top class sport, then we can no longer complain about the drugs cheats in sport. They are (1) doing what others do – which seems a common defence here, and/or (2) doing what needs to be done at top level. The Lance Armstrong defence perhaps?

    So Peterson’s defence includes – ” we play fair” – obviously not, as you openly cheat and “we respect the umpire” again cleary not. But Grum, thanks for the Guadian head up as it quotes Broad himself in the MCC Spirit of Cricket (sic) campaign:

    But it’s important that you do play fair – you respect the opposition and you respect the umpires. At the end of the day you’re there to entertain the crowd and they need to see cricket played in the right way.”

    Quite! So the right way is clear. It’s called blatant cheating.

    Thank goodness for Aggers – a lone voice of decency among coverage/ex internationals.

    yossarian
    Member

    He didn’t cheat, can we get that straight please. He didn’t break any rules to gain an advantage. You can argue that his actions were not in the spirit of the game for certain but he did not cheat.

    dannyh
    Member

    Cheating is cheating. Simple as. The laws of cricket state that if you hit the ball and it is caught cleanly you are out. The laws do not say you are only out if the umpire gives you out.

    Broad looked embarrassed to stand there. And so he should. The Aussies, of course, have no moral high ground from which to complain, but that’s not the point.

    I agree that it wasn’t as bad as the slo mos made it look. I was particularly nauseated by that smarm ball Mark Nicholas ranting on about it on the Five highlights. He’s got a lot of opinions for a run of the mill county player who was renowned for his yellow streak when facing anyone with a bit of pace.

    The trott decision was marginal to say the least. When all is considered, he was beaten all ends up by a nice in swinger, I actually thought it was bat and pad simultaneously.

    The Agar one was too close to give out. At real speed and slowed down.

    I’d like to see a new ruling. If a fielding team appeals, but the batsman is given not out by the on field umpire, if they then turn down the option of a review, they should be docked five runs. If you didn’t think it was out, you shouldn’t be appealing for it!

    By the way, I was a left arm seamer for 20 years before packing in playing, so I do know what I’m on about. I always refused to appeal even if my keeper and slips went up for a non existent edge off of my bowling. I played premier league cricket in my home county.

    I only ever stood my ground once having nicked one. That was when my best mate strangled me down the leg side first ball of a knockabout game at school. I couldn’t have coped with a lifetime of shit if he’d done me first up.

    dannyh
    Member

    Double post

    Law 1.4 and Law 42.1?

    The laws of cricket make specific reference to the responsibility to play cricket within the spirit and traditions of the game. IMO, cheating involves deliberately flouting the rules of the game. Holding makes a good point in the Guardian article about the Ramdin suspension. Will same sanction be applied here?

    Anyway, I am happy that karma will sort it out in the end, but less happy that “if” we win it will be a dirty win. Bit like my old team Leicester Tigers after the Neil Back hand in the scrum incident. Hollow and dirty in what is/was enthralling sport. Pity that.

    grum
    Member

    Yep, Clarke wasted his DRS appeals, but there’s no way he should have had to even think about reviewing Broads dismissal… stupid appalling umpiring, I reckon that’s the last we’ll see of Dar for a few tests…

    Give over. Dar is a superb umpire, he just made a bad call. Typical whinging Aussie 🙂

    Why is Broad ‘cheating’ any worse than the Aussies claiming Trott’s LBW despite an obvious edge? On balance the Aussies are still ahead in this game on bad umpiring decisions so the bleating needs to stop.

    BTW the Australian argument was always that actually they show respect to the umpire by not walking – the umpire is the only one with the authority to make the decision. It’s not the same as falsely claiming a catch at all. And comparing him to a drugs cheat is ridiculous IMO.

    slackalice
    Member

    And comparing him to a drugs cheat is ridiculous

    Totally agree. Fatuous statement of over-reaction to a one off incident. Maybe he ate the wrong piece of beef the prior evening? 😉

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    This was a clear misplayed cut that went straight into the slips hands

    No, no and three times no. It was a feathered edge from a late cut that went off Haddin’s gloves to slip. That’s what fooled the Umpire, as i said above (and I assume you DID read it, in the same way as you have watched the incident properly), he would have been sure that the ball ended up at slip off the keeper’s gloves, but would he have been sure that broad had edged it first??

    grum
    Member

    And anyway this is all taking attention from Ronald’s magnificent innings.

    dannyh
    Member

    Comparing him to a drug cheat is ridiculous.

    With reference to the “hand of Back” incident, I couldn’t agree more. Tigers are my team too, but I can’t stand a lot of the ‘johnny come lately’ supporters of recent years who stand by the Tigers no matter what.

    Martin Johnson was a magnificent player. Fact. He was also one of the dirtiest players in the league. Had he played for another club, the Welford Road crowd would have treated him like a pantomime villain. Corne Krige was flamed for elbowing johnno in the face at Twickenham. If you look at the photo in krige’s book just before the elbow, you see johnno practically strangling him.

    There is a clear line between right and wrong, and you are being disingenuous if you apply it differently to teams that you like or dislike.

    By the way, having not cheated myself when playing cricket, I was never shy of letting a batsman know he was a cheat if he nicked one and didn’t walk. It’s not a weakness to play fair. Adam Gilchrist could vouch for that.

    So if an Englishmen (pseudo or otherwise) and an Aussie cheat its ok, but heaven forbid if you are a West Indian or a Pakistani. There is a word for that.

    A precendent was set by Ramdin and ironically was judged by Chris Broad whose comments on this type of behaviour are clear and categorical. Inconsistent, hypocritical or simply racist *? At the very least, Chris Broad needs to give his son some Fatherly advice.

    West Indies wicket-keeper Denesh Ramdin has been suspended for two one-day matches and fined 100 per cent of his match fee for wrongly claiming a catch in the Champions Trophy. Match referee Chris Broad charged Ramdin following a hearing in London after the wicket-keeper had pleaded not guilty to the offence.”This is regarded as a serious offence as it is the responsibility of all players to act in the spirit of the game,” Broad said in a statement released by the International Cricket Council.

    TOJ, yes sorry did read your comments but like Aggers commentating at the time, I will simply disagree. He saw it clearly live and at full speed and made the instant acknowledgment that Broad was out on the TMS commentary.

    Edit: dannyh, good call. “disingenuous” is probably the best adjective here.

    grum
    Member

    There is a clear line between right and wrong

    The reason we are still having this discussion is precisely because there isn’t though.

    Bear
    Member

    As others have mentioned he edged it to the keeper not first slip. Most players don’t walk it is a fact of modern cricket. I didn’t I still don’t and being a bowler had my fair share stand against me and be given not out (best one was caught 3 slip!).
    The decision has no similarity to the trott or agar ones as they were 3rd umpire calls all be it poor ones!

    Broad was within his rights to stand and did so.

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