By all means attack my spelling, punctuation and grammar, but you can hardly criticise me for lack of imagination and independant thought considering I’m one of the few who has actually considered this from an alternate angle. Besides I thought my post concerning an alternative way of handling a protest was rather imaginative 🙂

Wow 2hottie this just gets better – you do know that the Police and Mountain Rescue are two separate entities right?

Very much so, I’m also aware that they work together and Mountain Rescue is sometimes staffed by volunteer off duty Police Officers, my point was about advancements in technology not the finer points of responsibilty for mountain sides.

What about Grampian Police Mountain Rescue Team, Strathclyde Police Mountain Rescue Team, and Tayside Police Mountain rescue Team?

What about Grampian Police Mountain Rescue Team, Strathclyde Police Mountain Rescue Team, and Tayside Police Mountain rescue Team?

I don’t know, do they beat up innocent protestors?

LOL ! that’s exactly what I meant 2hottie !

I wasn’t referring to ‘attitudes’, I was referring purely to ‘equipment’ !

Because as everybody knows there was no riot equipment available anywhere in the world at the time of the Brixton riots – no full protective clothing, shields, face visors, etc, etc,

LOL !

Ourmaninthenorth, taking away the principle and discussing context then. Yes the Police should, and do need to use violence against citizens who are displyaing active resistance towards them. As clearly documented in law Police Officers can use reasonable force, ultimately the decision on what is reasonable does come down to the individual Officer at the time. Should a decision be made that is incorrect then the Officer will be dealt with firstly under Police Regulations and should it be decided that criminal proceedings should be taken then they will.
Even the thought that some believe that the option to use force when faced with violence and agression (be it active of passive) should be taken away scares me more than the thought of facing up to a mob of angry protestors.

Dunno, there aren’t many protests up here.

violence and agression (be it active of passive)

What’s passive aggression?

Passive-aggressive behavior is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior

Should people get beaten up/killed for that too? Surely you must be a troll.

BTW 2hottie, where do you get the idea that you have “independant thought” ?

As far as I can see, your opinions come straight out of The Sun …….

Policing is a tough job but let’s not forget that sometimes they get it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality

Should a decision be made that is incorrect then the Officer will be dealt with firstly under Police Regulations and should it be decided that criminal proceedings should be taken then they will.

No it wont, I imagine it will be swept under the carpet and no charges pressed like the one who managed to shoot an innocent man 7 times in the face. I’m guessing from your tone 2hottie that you are one of Gordons secret police, KGB, gestapo, whatever, its all been done before and I dont like seeing it happen in this country.

Opinions from the Sun lol
If you actually thought about my opinions you could probably see where my allegiance lies, and probably gives much more away about my lifestyle. Criticise me for not being quite so independant for having taken onboard a viewpoint to match my way of life, but from your posts then your opinions are just as un-indepedant as mine. There is very little independant thought truly left and instead we are all voicing our shared beliefs – fun isn’t it!

Anyway, my new film rental came through the post today and I’m quite looking forward to it 😉 Nighty night xo xo

I cannot believe anyone is actually trying to defend that one policemans action, he acted like a thug and he should be charged with manslaughter.The fact is there was 8 or so of them and he was not any risk to the officers or anyone else for that matter. And as for it is not an easy job they do well they picked it as a career if its too much chuck it and do something else. And I will not even comment on he could have moved out the way quicker.

As clearly documented in law Police Officers can use reasonable force, ultimately the decision on what is reasonable does come down to the individual Officer at the time.

😀

Gotta be a troll with that.

Opinions from the Sun lol

Sh1t damnit bollox, I got it wrong ………. it’s the Daily Mail, isn’t it ?

2hottie – Member

The way in which I see it, is that the Police Officer lost their cool at a man who clearly seems to be taking the piss by walking far too slow when being asked to move on.

I would have liked to see the water cannons used and have a zero tolerance on any civil disorder.

Its a shame a man died but to blame it all on the police isn’t realistic. He could have walked away quicker…

Munqe-chick – Member

2 hottie … agree, good on you.

So, munqe-chick; as a serving police constable, you agree that water cannon should be used on protesters, and that police are justified for pushing over a man walking away from them? And that he is to blame for his own death?

Nice to see an intelligent point of view, from one of Her Maj’s Finest. Sure you’re in the right line of work? 😉

Personally, I feel that if police are acting illegally, as they often do, then it is the right of any citizen, to resist, and defend themselves. If this involves the use of justifiable violence, so be it.

I was at a demo several years ago, taking pics. As I was walking along at the side, a senior copper suddenly shoved me very roughly, and screamed at me to ‘get back over there’. I turned round, and said ‘don’t **** push me, you ****’. Cue, his attempt to arrest me. Fortunately, a lawyer working for Amnesty International, as well as several other people, had witnessed his unprovoked assault on me. The lawyer advised the copper, that were he to arrest me, that she would stand up in court and give evidence against him, in any trial brought on by a complaint from me, for the assault.

The thug let go of me, and wandered off, knowing he would be screwed.

I appreciate the police have a very tough job to do, and by and large, they do it admirably. But there are occasions, as seen recently, where they abuse the powers given them by the State. Their job is to uphold Law and Order, and to protect Society. They would be mindful to always remember this. They are public servants, not the Government’s private army.

Either the officer or his superiors should be held resopnsible for their actions. If I made a mistake at work and no one spotted it and someone died, then ultimately someone would be held responsible.

I’m not anti-police, in fact in some cases I think they do a very good job, however in this case it certainly appears that they have abused their power and have not been restrained as anyone in their position should be, and for this reason someone has died, therefore people should be held responsible for the manslaughter.

How even a Daily Mail reading idiot could think they are in the right in this case – from that video – is beyond me. Whatever happened before or after it. Of course it’s possible that someone could be so entrenched in their anti-Guardian views as to dismiss anything circulated by them….

I am in same opinion as 2hottie that the g20 protesters are scum, but this guy was doing nothing wrong & the fact that the cop that hits him has to go round about 4 other officers to get to him & that he moves away in a hurry when he sees the cameras says a lot about the incident

Of course it’s possible that someone could be so entrenched in their anti-Guardian views …

Imagine putting a truncheon in 2hottie’s hand and placing him in front of a Guardian reading protester ……….. just imagine

.

……. what do you see ?

I am in same opinion as 2hottie that the g20 protesters are scum

Could you explain what exactly you don’t like about the G20 protesters?

I have no axe to grind against the police. My dealings with them have been sparse and in the main, have been reasonable.

I personally think they policed the G20 reasonably well, particularly given the direction the protests could have gone if badly handled.

To me the issue is that like in any walk of life there are some bad apples. It does no-one any credit to overlook this. If the police close ranks and this doesn’t get properly dealt with, they are all discredited by actions like this. Similarly if the collective ‘we’ overlook the fact that this was the action of one or at most a few officers, we too are discredited by that fact.

A man was playing up and being a nuisance without necessarily overstepping the line. A copper went too far in reaction. A man died, probably as a result. The copper / coppers responsible should be appropriately dealt with – including those (superiors?) whose inital response seems to have been to concoct a cover story about how the victim was prevented from getting the appropriate treatment.

It doesn’t make this any more or less of a police state than it was last week, but unfortunately gives those who choose to make capital out of this incident chance to claim it with a bit more volume.

Shocking behaviour by the police but not entirely out of character. By all accounts the ipcc was about to say all was ok, until the 3 witnesses and video evidence were received at the last minute. Suddenly the new law to make it an offence video/photograph police all becomes clear.

So, munqe-chick; as a serving police constable, you agree that water cannon should be used on protesters, and that police are justified for pushing over a man walking away from them? And that he is to blame for his own death?

Nice to see an intelligent point of view, from one of Her Maj’s Finest. Sure you’re in the right line of work?

All too common amongst police officers these days. The standards have really slipped.

I would have liked to see the water cannons used and have a zero tolerance on any civil disorder.

Zero tolerance on any civil disorder until the day you may need to protest and do it yourself. I’m sure you’ll have a witty answer along the lines “that you will never have to”, but I do believe that any crystal balls you may have in your possession actually can’t tell what the future will be.

And to think that our forefathers fought in WW2 to protect our freedoms, only for us to give them away, a bit at a time.

Actually, I must say that I believe Munque-chick to be an intelligent, thoughtful person, judging by comments she’s made on here in the past. I do find it surprising that she appears to support the views of someone whose own views are dubious at best.

I’m sure she is someone capable of doing her job to the best of her abilities, and in accordance with the Law.

It does no-one any credit to overlook this. If the police close ranks and this doesn’t get properly dealt with, they are all discredited by actions like this.

How very true.

Not only that, but it is only through showing that thuggery will not be tolerated in the police force, that the risk of such an incident re-occurring can be minimised.

If the police close ranks and there is a cover up, then it will positively encourage further similar incidences.

I would be interested to know how munqe-chick would feel about other professions closing ranks. Maybe the medical profession closing ranks and covering up the incompetence of a doctor who is treating her …. or maybe her elderly parents ?

.

Some people don’t seem to realise the importance of not covering up criminal activity. Sometimes grassing people up to the law is more important than so-called ‘gang loyalty’.

Filthy – why do you think it would be any different in NZ ? I truly am intrugued. Do you think this country has no previous instances of police shooting and killing people – you might want to do some research first because funnily enough its a real country, with real people with real problems….you might be sorely disappointed I am afraid.

I walked past Starbucks on Cornhill today during lunch, saw the fresh flowers tied to the post, fleetingly read one of the cards and trundled back to my customer’s office thinking that’s a bit sad, wondering what exactly had transpired.

The footage is pretty indisputable: man fails to react to police for whatever reason, minimal-GCSE-equipped otherwise unemployable thug in fluo jacket and riot gear comes over all Judge Dredd and administers disproportionate response. Man wanders around for a bit, gets worked up thinking about what’s just happened to him and passes away. Genuinely tragic.

I would comment on what’ll happen in the coming days, but it’s all to sadly predictable.

During the miner’s strike, the local rumours up here (Co Durham at the time) were that the “riot police” were not everyday officers, but squaddies equipped with police uniforms and truncheons. I don’t genuinely believe that to be the case, but I can see how footage like this can lead to that kind of belief.

Friends in various forces have said that riot training is specifically designed to work you up into a rage – to bring out primal fighting instincts. What a great way to dispel a tricky situation. 🙄

On the whole I think the police to a great job. But to try and defend the actions of this indvidual seems embarassing. I appreciate that we may not know all the evidence but could munque-chick (or any other serving officer) clarify whether they condone the officer’s action within the known context of the video.

Thanks for the advice NZCol, I was of the mindset that “It cant be worse than here”. Is it really worse than here, I doubt it, for a start you only have about 1/10 the population of the UK and from what I’ve heard from friends who have already emigrated they really enjoye the lifestyle out there. Now I dont expect to get away from all of lifes problems over here be it out of control youths, heavy handed police, crap weather* or whatever but I was hoping to find a bit less of it in NZ especially up in the mountains.

Anyway its just an option at the moment, I might find that dream job and lifestyle in this country.

crap weather*, ok the last few weeks have been an exception.

I still dont know why they dont have the G20 on an Oil Rig. All incidents like this solved.

or any other serving officer) clarify whether they condone the officer’s action within the known context of the video.

yes, same as I said at tea time

yes, same as I said at tea time

Thanks thegreatape ….. that puts my mind at rest.

Yes – as in yes I am happy to say what I thought of that video (as per my tea time post), not yes I condone what he did.

To avoid any misunderstanding.

I believe, from what I heard the day after, that he was a local newsagent on his way home.

I suspect that he was looking intransigent because the police had taken him for a protester and wouldn’t let him past (possibly also because he was a Millwall supporter!) – hence he was being slightly uncooperative.

It is a very bad day for the police.

I heard/saw plenty of reports about police bad behaviour, not to mention the “kettling” tactics which certainly involved keeping lots of middle aged,middle class peaceful protesters (clearly not hooligans) penned in for several (up to 8 ) hours.

Obviously the police denied any bad behaviour on their part, but once again they are caught out lying about what went on. Clearly there was one officer who was a thug, but look at the faces of the other 10 that saw what went on – they were all complicit. And what’s worse, I’m sorry to say, is that I think they would all have stuck to the story about having to fight off protestors to help the guy who had “simply collapsed” if it hadn’t been for this footage coming out.

The particular officer should be prosecuted for assault. The commanding officer in that unit should be sacked and the high command should be given a severe dressing down re’ their tactics.

filthy – I wouldn;t say it is worse , definitely not. However depending on where you live etc there are social pressures and the police have a slightly chequered (recent) history. However as you correctly say there are only 4M people, 1.1M of which live in Akl so relatively there is less of ‘everything’. Be that recalcitrant yoofs, boy racers, hoodlums, muggings etc. Fair enough if you ahev done your research and don;t have an expectation of it being all roses because its not.
Lifestyle is one thing but I am sure someone who lives in reasonably rural Scotland/Wales/England has a nice lifestyle, but then I also would expect that they would not have the same exposure to all the things that this thread talks about. So its swings and roundabouts really. Anyhoo your plan sounds lovely, let me know where you open your bike shop and I’ll drop in 😉

filthy, the excellent film Once Were Warriors gives a different perspective on some of the social problems in NZ

I’m sure if I was going lawfully about my business using the Queens highway to return home and was unlawfully harassed or detained by police officers I would let them know they were not my favouite people.
I was disappointed to read Munque Chicks response as it was not what I would have expected from previous replies she has given on Policing matters. Shame on her.

the police officer in the footage did appear to respond strongly – right or wrong its not for me to say, ive only seen the short footage of the guy getting shoved, no-one on this forum knows the full story.

the important thing is that it appears that 99% of the police did an excellent job during the G20 protests, especially when compared with other forces across the EU. i think its a shame that this incident will damage the reputation of the police force.

it must be a tough job and people seem to be forgetting that there were protesters launching objects at the police and generally trying to provoke violence, so neither side is without blame.

and as for all the ‘police state’ bullsh1t, give it a rest hey? just sounds daft and detracts from the real issue.

just my 2p’s worth

I am not sure I understand why what newspaper one reads has any particular bearing on this. The Guardian broke this because the chap who filmed the incident gave them the video (as I understand it). I suspect that newsagents who support Millwall are probably not typical Guardian readers, and I will be interested to see whether less “hand-wringing” newspapers reckon he got what was coming to him.

The possibility of being attacked by an armed and warranted state officer, on the spurious grounds that one’s behaviour might strike him as “passive-aggressive” is sickening.

I fully understand that it is hard to be a police officer, that they do a demanding job, and that incidents of this sort are rare. That is good. To defend what appears in that video is very difficult. If there is in fact some context that justifies it, fine. But it had better be good. Otherwise, personally, I need to see that officer being dealt with, and I need the reassurance of knowing that he will not be anywhere near me, armed, masked and pumped up on adrenalin and hatred when I am trying to go about my lawful business.

😐