G20 Protest death – Ian Tomlinson – have we done this yet?

Home Forum Chat Forum G20 Protest death – Ian Tomlinson – have we done this yet?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 290 total)
  • G20 Protest death – Ian Tomlinson – have we done this yet?
  • aP
    Member

    I must admit that that appears pretty clear cut.
    Will this be the Met’s Rodney King?

    richc
    Member

    to the MET I am sure its clear cut, he backed into their batons and threw himself to the ground.

    case closed.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    What has happened seems very clear cut. Lets see what a court decides….
    .
    I do want to know, why he was there anyway, why he did not walk away from the police etc. If it was me, next to a big protest, having already been harassed by the police earlier (as he reportedly was), I would have left the area, and moved out the way rapidly when asked. Strolling in front of them at slow speed does not seem a good response. (this question in no-way detracts from what appears to have been inflicted on him BTW)

    RudeBoy
    Member

    So, a deliberate act of aggression has possibly contributed to the death of someone who was clearly not braking any laws.

    What’s the legal standpoint on that one?

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Any amount of money anyone cares to wager that NO policemen will be prosecuted, charged, or in any way held accountable despite, (and I’m guessing here) an initial criminal trial, a commission/inquest of some sort under some peer of the realm, and another private trial bought by relatives, which will find the Met guilty of some feeble lack of duty of care offense..?

    grizzlygus
    Member

    the police do not appear to have told any actual lies

    How about, that demonstrators wouldn’t allow medics through – sure that isn’t a lie ? From that video it would appear that only the demonstrators helped the poor guy, even though he wasn’t one of them. The police stood inches away doing nothing.

    I agree, that was scary scary stuff. I’ve never seen masked police before, wtf is all that about – the need to hide their faces ? And if you look in the slow motion bit at the force being used by the copper against a man slowly walking with his hands in his pockets – it’s quite frankly unbelievable 😯

    And I’ve never seen more than the odd dog at a demo either. Those coppers looked like nothing more than thugs itching for a fight.

    Whether that video was actually of Ian Tomlinson or not is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. It clearly shows thugs assaulting an innocent man – whoever he was.

    **** that, that’s made me make up my mind to definitely go on the next demo, whenever that is – time to reclaim our streets from thugs and not let the fukkers get away with it, I fear πŸ™

    Filthy
    Member

    I’m getting a bit sick of living in a police state… time to emigrate I think before it all kicks off in a big way.

    thegreatape
    Member

    The masks are fire proof balaclavas same as the rest of the underwear. From what that video shows it does look like someone lost their cool. I don’t see how he needed to be shoved like that, even though he looked as though he was being a bit of an awkward bugger.

    Junkyard
    Member

    that is not good but and it seems impossible to defend the hitting of a man walking away from doing something perfectly legal with his hands in his pockets …. about as un threatening as can be really.
    All sure FA will come as a result of this shamefull act
    Whether it contributed to his death I am unqualified to comment.
    EDIT : Is it a shove or a baton hit or a bit of both?

    RudeBoy
    Member

    Filthy; so you’d abandon your country?

    Filthy
    Member

    Filthy; so you’d abandon your country?

    Damn right I’ve been thinking about it for the past few years, tbh its the weather aswell, I’d like to live somewhere that has proper seasons. Quite fancy the idea of living in the NZ alps, open a little bike shop while the wife runs a cafe.

    Or maybe I’m just trying to get out of paying my student loans back πŸ˜‰

    grizzlygus
    Member

    The masks are fire proof balaclavas same as the rest of the underwear.

    So how come they weren’t wearing full riot gear then ? I’ve been at the scene of some pretty hairy riots but I’ve never seen coppers cover their faces like that – although obviously in the case of the ones in full riot gear their faces aren’t easily seen.

    grizzlygus
    Member

    BTW Filthy, despite this incident, British police are still amongst the very best in the world.
    In fact uniquely renowned for their very British “Softly Softly” approach to policing.

    .

    Well at least they used to be

    πŸ™

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    Guardian video

    Article

    Assuming that the man shown in this video is in fact the man who died (no reason to doubt it at present) then this does not look nice, although the police do not appear to have told any actual lies about what happened, they just omitted to mention that the reason that he needed medical attention was that he had been hit and thrown to the ground for no apparent reason. These people scare the hell out of me. I am genuinely afraid of them in a way that I just can’t manage to be about common or garden thugs.

    😐

    2hottie
    Member

    The way in which I see it, is that the Police Officer lost their cool at a man who clearly seems to be taking the piss by walking far too slow when being asked to move on. Pushing him over may seem harsh but I wouldn’t like to be a PC, having to deal with all the scum who go round damaging property etc for what they say is a good cause. I would have liked to see the water cannons used and have a zero tolerance on any civil disorder. Protests can be peaceful and should be. Damaging property an attacking the police only detracts from the message the good protesters where trying to get accross. Its a shame a man died but to blame it all on the police isn’t realistic. He could have walked away quicker…

    grizzlygus
    Member

    all the scum ……to blame it all on the police isn’t realistic. He could have walked away quicker…

    Thank you for pointing that out to me 2hottie and restoring my faith in the police – I knew that there was probably something which I had missed.

    That’s a relief …..

    RudeBoy
    Member

    Well, what a refreshing, open-minded and intelligent post form 2hottie.

    Restores my faith in our democracy.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    zero tolerance on any civil disorder.(…..)He could have walked away quicker…

    Yeah, the bastard had it coming alright ! πŸ™ 😯

    Protests can be peaceful and should be

    Protests pretty much can’t be anything at all – not meaningfully anyway:
    You can’t get within a sensible distance of parlaiament, which is where most of the protestation is directed. You need permission to protest anywhere else. They prefer us all to just sign those **** e-petitions that they can wipe their arses on afterwards

    Maybe (quite likely) they used too much force to push him over, but its pretty clear they didn’t mean to kill him.

    I just hope that after the protests they acted properly and there wasn’t a cover up etc..

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    Protests can be peaceful and should be.

    Why?

    The state has the monopoly on violence. It enforces this, inter alia, through the acitons of its police force. Sometimes, the people have speak the same language.

    I’m with BD (and, sadly, increaingly with Filthy) on this: it’s the ultimate abuse of power, and so the most frightening.

    grizzlygus
    Member

    Yeah, what you and me missed RudeBoy, is that the bloke was taking the p1ss.

    Everyone knows that when you’re confronted by riot police you should look at them face to face in an aggressive confrontational manner and preferably, screaming abuse.

    To quietly and causally walk away from them, hands in pockets, in a nonchalant manner, is clearly taking the p1ss. And you deserve to die.

    2hottie
    Member

    Say what you will, I don’t like the G20 protests or the protesters for that matter. Police get too much crap for what is a VERY tough job, I admit there not all perfect however it seems everyone has a dislike to them for some reason or another. Id like to see a society without them, o yeah that was crap to. In terms of freedom of speach, you can have all you want as no one will listern anyway. So why waste your time protesting.

    grizzlygus
    Member

    Yeah you’re right 2hottie, “everyone has a dislike to them” ….. including me. That’s why I wrote, quote :

    “despite this incident, British police are still amongst the very best in the world.
    In fact uniquely renowned for their very British “Softly Softly” approach to policing.”

    RudeBoy
    Member

    Oh dear…

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    2hottie – you are comparing apples and oranges.

    You cannont, on one hand, write off the G20 protests on a principle wide basis, but then develop support for the police on an individual basis.

    Id like to see a society without them, o yeah that was crap to.

    The anarchists of Spain seemed to do a pretty good job of collective order. Sadly, that well known upholder of freedom, Franco, put paid to that.

    In terms of freedom of speach, you can have all you want as no one will listern anyway. So why waste your time protesting

    Because then you’ll have no freedom of speech, perhaps, and then you’ll have no freedom?

    Thankfully, there are those with slightly more sophistictaed views, which uphold these rights you apparently despise, so that you can carry on despising them. I rarely insult people on here, but stupidity – and worse still ignorance – doesn’t help your cause.

    Munqe-chick
    Member

    Police covering their faces with riot fire proof protective gear. They will be easily identifiable by their shoulder numbers.
    2 hottie … agree, good on you.

    hora
    Member

    Bangs head against wall. OP, you are a typical Guardian (groaner) reader

    grumm
    Member

    2 hottie … agree, good on you.

    He could have walked away quicker…

    I’m sickened that anyone can defend this point of view – truly scary.

    2hottie
    Member

    Here you are accusing me of stupidity and ignorance when I have only voiced an alternative point of view. The entirity of this string is based on a snippet of video of a much larger and longer running incident. Unless you were there either as the Police or as a protestor in that moment and directly preceeding it you cannot comment on whether excessive force was used and if Mr Tomlinson wasn’t really all that innocent. It is extremely conveniant for the media to show Police in this manner attacking a seemingly defenceless man who was doing nothing more than walk down the street with his hands in his pockets. They don’t comment on the four or five bobbies who try to push him out of the way first using less force do they! He would have been very aware if the Police by this point.

    I may have opinions that you don’t agree with but to base your opinions solely on a small piece from a media group – who’s sole aim is to sell papers, then surely that it far more ignorant than I!

    have to agree that the guy looked like he was trying to be awkward. if i’d already been harrassed by the police, and if i were in the no-mans land between the police and the protestors, i’d not stick around.
    its no excuse though. it was pretty harsh of the police.

    however, i don’t believe in the slightest that there was any intention of the policeman to kill the guy. there must be less than a 1 in a million chance of someone who has fallen/been knocked over dieing.

    the police had a job to do there, which was, i assume, controlling a protest/riot/whatever it was. that guy just seemed to be getting in their way and causing an obstruction.

    i’m sure someone’ll get on their high-horse about what i just said… meh.
    πŸ˜‰

    JulianA
    Member

    RudeBoy – Member
    Filthy; so you’d abandon your country?

    +1

    It’s not the country I grew up in any more…

    You’d have to be very brave indeed (and clever) to make a difference now.

    And when you flame me, also suggest how one could make a difference!

    uplink
    Member

    The police were fairly quick with a news release condemning the actions of the protesters in this incident – & gave the impression that they were simply trying to help him

    BillMC
    Member

    ‘It’s not the country….’
    I’ve witnessed police brutality on every demonstration I’ve been on since Grosvenor Square in 1969. It’s always been like that, it’s what they’re trained to do.

    Guilliano
    Member

    all the scum ……to blame it all on the police isn’t realistic. He could have walked away quicker…

    Does that mean if someone is ambling in my way in the street I can give them a good shove in the back and it’s all ok???

    There are plenty of other things the police could have done, including stopping him and at the worst arrest him for loitering or even obstruction of an officer. Assault was unnecessary and should be punished in a criminal case

    grizzlygus
    Member

    It’s always been like that

    I don’t agree. For a start British police never had any riot gear in 1969. Even during the Brixton riots, the police never had/owned any riot gear. Things have changed. And don’t like it – this is Britain not the United States πŸ™

    alpin
    Member

    word association…..

    cat, dog

    dog, police dog

    police dog, police

    police, ****

    2hottie
    Member

    I’ve witnessed police brutality on every demonstration

    ….

    it’s what they’re trained to do

    Of course its what they’re trained to do – how else would they know what to do.
    And as for brutality… would you rather the Police Officers saunter up to people in the street and in their best most politest manner tap the protestor on the shoulder and quietly ask them if they wouldn’t mind awfully leaving. Followed by an explaination of how they’re only doing their job and it would make them look much better to their bosses if people did what they asked.

    lol the British Police really would be the laughing stock of the World!

    BillMC
    Member

    2Hottie I could almost take you seriously had you mastered the elementary rules of spelling, punctuation and grammar, not to say imagination and independent thought.

    2hottie
    Member

    Things have changed. And don’t like it

    Well Grizzlygus, when you come off your bike in the middle of the hillside and the Police and Mountain Rescue utilise cell siting to find you location to within a mile and then put on their top of the line outdoor gear, locate you, place you in a helicopter and fly you to hospital. This probably wouldn’t have happened in 1969 either, but I’m damn sure you wouldn’t protest against their support in this matter.

    Things have changed, equipment has improved, Officers get hurt so they are given the appropriate equipment for the job in hand, much like builders have to wear hardhats and safety boots, Police Officers have helmets and flame retardent overalls and stab vests. The right tool for the right job, so to speak.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    The entirity of this string is based on a snippet of video of a much larger and longer running incident. Unless you were there either as the Police or as a protestor in that moment and directly preceeding it you cannot comment on whether excessive force was used

    Not sure where a reference to anarchist Zaragosa comes into your asumptions.

    For me, assuming that the state (and with it its police force, natch) is entirely benign is ignorant of precisely what can happen when the state exercise its ultimate abuse of power by turning on its citizens.

    You are correct that we do not have the full picture on this incident, but taken in the context of the video alone and the resultant death of this man, we have to quesiton whether we onsider an individual’s (potential) awkwardness to be suitable for violent treatment, which allagedly cost him his life.

    My point is simple: leave out the context here, and look at the princle. Is it right that the police as a body (leaving aside individual coppers) use volence against its citizens? If yes, where is the line drawn – what threat must the citizens have to the state to justify lethal force?

    In my view, awkwardness does not justify that.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 290 total)

The topic ‘G20 Protest death – Ian Tomlinson – have we done this yet?’ is closed to new replies.