Correct, except you’re taught not to do it.

Brakes to slow, gears to go.

One might select a low gear when faced with a steep downhill gradient, but then that’s maintaining a low speed, not braking down to one.

Indeed. Back when I passed my test in 1990, I believe that being taught to block change when decelerating rather than going down through the gears individually was a relatively new introduction. I do a bit of both depending on the situation.

As Bob and CZ have said, engine braking is good for maintaining a speed. In a modern car engine braking is of nominal practical use when coming to a stop. ABS > drum brakes.

Going down an incline (well, a decline I suppose, but that sounds weird), I like to see how far I can travel without touching the brakes whilst watching the car in front’s brake lights flashing on and off like hazard indicators.

Correct, except you’re taught not to do it.

Brakes to slow, gears to go.

You’re made aware of it and its effects are explained.

But, you’re moving away from why I mentioned engine braking and suggesting that I’m extolling its virtues as a way of controlling speed instead of brakes – I’m not.

If you look back at why I raised the issue of engine braking, it was with regard to cruise control…

If you’re traveling at 70mph on a motorway and the car in front brakes hard, assuming you’re NOT using cruise control, the slowing of your own vehicle begins the instant you lift off. So by the time you’ve taken Mr Foot off Mr Throttle and put it on Mr Brake Pedal*, your car has already begun to decelerate, possibly buying you precious meters of braking distance.

*Reference to a very old joke about being pulled over by a Welsh Police Officer

There is research regarding the percentage of drivers who think that they are above the average. In a number of studies it is usually shown to be between 73% and 90%
I don’t rate my own driving above competent and mostly safe, the advanced training I had was decades ago, and most of that concentrated on observation and caution.
Training can of course improve performance but it could also lead to illusory superiority.

regarding ACC, insurance companies appear to believe that it reduces the risk of collisions, certainly when combined with low speed urban anti collision software, as it has reduced the insurance premiums for vehicles fitted with it, mine included. however, like any aid, people need to be aware of the limitations and not rely on it.

you’re moving away from why I mentioned engine braking

I’m just wondering why someone who purports to be an advanced driver would repeatedly use terms in a manner that advanced training specifically rejects.

Making progress ? speeding.
Decelerating ? engine braking.

Just an observation. I’ve been trained to do that. 🙂

Making progress ? speeding.
Decelerating ? engine braking.

Just an observation. I’ve been trained to do that.

What on earth are you talking about???

Is this another case of:

Cougar – Moderator
I’d filed it under “do not feed the troll” TBH.

What on earth are you talking about?

I’m saying you sound nothing like an advanced driver.
I’ve pointed out why.
Calling me a troll rather than refuting what I’ve said only serves to confirm my suspicions.

If you’re traveling at 70mph on a motorway and the car in front brakes hard, assuming you’re NOT using cruise control, the slowing of your own vehicle begins the instant you lift off. So by the time you’ve taken Mr Foot off Mr Throttle and put it on Mr Brake Pedal*, your car has already begun to decelerate, possibly buying you precious meters of braking distance.

So you’re against cruise control because you’re driving too close to the car in front?

There is research regarding the percentage of drivers who think that they are above the average. In a number of studies it is usually shown to be between 73% and 90%

Wouldn’t surprise me. Many people either don’t know they’re incompetent or wouldn’t admit to it when asked.

I’d consider myself to be an above-average driver, not because I’m some driving god*, but because the average driver is bloody awful. It’s a low bar.

(* – though I am, obvs)

Going down an incline (well, a decline I suppose, but that sounds weird), I like to see how far I can travel without touching the brakes whilst watching the car in front’s brake lights flashing on and off like hazard indicators

This and slowing down to hit a speed change (say 50 to 30) without touching the brakes are two of the small pleasures I still get from driving. Very sad, but when my bonnet passes the 30 sign and the car has just hit 30, nod of the head, small smirk and fist pump 🙂 it’s even better if the person in front of you has just slammed the brakes on in order to slow enough

In a similar vein,

Approaching a red traffic light on an incline, I sometimes like to gauge my speed and then push the clutch in to try to land on the white line without needing to touch the brake or reengage the transmission.

So you’re against cruise control because you’re driving too close to the car in front?

Don’t you start! 🙄

I use H&T and the occasional double declutch in normal everyday driving, without ever driving like a bellend Mansell wannabe. 🙂

Edukator – Reformed Troll
“Advanced driving techniques” are for race tracks, rally stages, kart circuits… not public roads. There’s no place for them on public roads, literally no place – as in not enough space. If you’re going fast enough to need advanced techniques you’re going too fast for the public road.

There are two important techniques on the road and there’s nothing advanced about them: anticipation and observation. Add a large dose of caution, a measure of restraint, some tolerance and respect for the highway code. All within the ability of every road user.

+ lots.
End of thread.

And yet it continues

I slowed down after passing my young children out through the broken windows of our overturned car, after a tyre blow out. Its when it all goes wrong you realise how fragile life really is. Plenty of heroes told me afterwards what they’d have done etc, but in reality you cling on for dear life.
These days I get where I’m going with a lot less stress. I try to ignore what others are doing wrong, it just winds folk up.

The inappropriate use of speed in dangerous situations pisses me off though, near Schools, Town Centres, Housing Estates etc. They could stick a speed camera on every lampost for me.

They could stick a speed camera on every lampost for me.

Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving. The driver that overtook me on a blind bend this morning wasn’t speeding but it was as close to an accident you can get without actually having one.
Would have preferred for him to wait and then overtake me after the corner even if he was speeding to overtake….

Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving. 

No, not necessarily, but it impacts the outcomes.

Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving.

The desire for speed, and the frustration of some drivers who aren’t achieving it, can be the root cause of plenty of bad driving IME. It is quite possible to be safe while you’re ‘making progress’, but there are quite a few drivers whose lack of patience and feelings of entitlement means they’ll risk themselves and others to get there.

Modern cars are so cushioned people don’t realise how fast they are going.
Some people never walk or cycle anywhere, so they have no experience of seeing it from another perspective.
But the main reason is, a lot of drivers are tosspots.
Compulsory self-driving cars can’t come soon enough.

Again, speed is not the cause of bad driving.

Nope, but it can make the outcome of any incident a hell of a lot worse for all involved. Consequences of speed innit

I had a complete dick the other day indicate and pull out on me while I was actually overtaking and alongside!
He was driving a T5 behind a truck, I was coming up behind him in the middle lane with faster traffic approaching from behind in the outside lane. As I got about a third of the way past he just stuck his indicator on and pulled out! I hit the horn and the brakes, fortunately there wasn’t anyone close behind and shitforbrains just carried on past the truck. As I went past him after he pulled back in I looked across and he just had a smug grin on his face!
Unbelievably bad driving, seems that having a posh van gave him a sense of entitlement with its own postcode.
At the time I had the cruise control set to give me a steady 70mph, consistent with the prevailing traffic and weather conditions.
Just thinking about it makes me tense up again. 👿

At the time I had the cruise control set to give me a steady 70mph, consistent with the prevailing traffic and weather conditions.

If you hadn’t been using cruise control, you would have been able to react quicker. 😉

top trolling shib 🙄

You’re surely better off left foot braking then h&ting in that case 😉

I know it’s the law so there’s no excuse for speeding but personally I tend to speed from time to time. Always on motorways or dual carriageway A roads and when conditions allow (lack of traffic, good weather/visibility). Not saying I’m right to speed but to me going 80-90 isn’t unsafe (if I had a blow-out I doubt there would be much difference in the outcome). That said I am booked on a speed awareness course in October so ‘getting caught’ was a bit of a wake up call and I’m trying to stay at 70 now…

I’m sure some people view it as just as bad as someone doing 60 past through a school 20 zone but I don’t…

top trolling shib

Self-confessed. Probably hasn’t even got a driving licence. 😀

I used to love this place… I’d stroll into a debate, drop one of my trademark slightly fascist or intolerant “thread bombs” and watch the liberals running round like headless chucks trying out out-do one another in the mock indignation stakes.

Now the liberals have cottoned on to my little game, and I’m not sure I like it!

Funny how some dimwits feel that they are more clever than the people who put the limits up or stick to them. To say that you are clever enough not to be a danger misses the point somewhat. The law says you don’t speed. End of story.
To go out to have fun on the roads is also rather nasty at best. Have fun where there is no potential to hurt others.
Might I add that this response is at least a million times wound back from my actual feelings.
I fail to see why speed cameras are not more common. As said, one on every limit sign with a no options decent* fine attached would soon pay for them.
* Needs to be 4 digits before any decimal points. Driving bans as well . This would have the benefit of removing the crap drivers from the road thus reducing stupidity and numbers.
Being an awkward sod I take great pleasure in doing my best to piss off those who feel speeding is acceptable.

Funny how some dimwits feel that they are more clever than the people who put the limits up or stick to them. To say that you are clever enough not to be a danger misses the point somewhat. The law says you don’t speed. End of story.

Being an awkward sod I take great pleasure in doing my best to piss off those who feel speeding is acceptable.

You seem to like picking and choosing which laws you follow… as you obviously have no problem with dangerous driving.

Funny how some dimwits feel that they are more clever than the people who put the limits up or stick to them.

What’s to be clever ???
I’ve driven through miles and miles of 50 mph on the motorway with some warning that is just wrong… workers in the road who went home 6 hours earlier but none bothered to switch the speed limit ?
Bends saying Max 40 mph that a modern car can easily take a double that in fair weather and legal tyres… but is 40 mph just in case I’m pulling a caravan on a 2CV ???

How about the dimwits who’s idea of speed limits is to stick a NSL right before a single car only bridge with a right angle??? Should I base my driving on whomever put this sign up having any sense whatsoever ..

The law says you don’t speed. End of story.

The Law is simply what a bunch of elected people are meant to vote on.
Except most of them don’t actually bother and most of those that do have no idea what they are actually voting for anyway.
Then you have ministers encouraging people to break the law….

Minister for Cycling Robert Goodwill has reiterated that the official line from the Department for Transport (DfT) is that cyclists may ride on the footway – more commonly referred to as pavements – provided they do so considerately, and that police officers need to exercise discretion.

If MP’s could actually be bothered to vote and actually read and understand what they were actually voting on then the law would represent what people who voted would vote for…. however that isn’t the case… only 2 yrs ago a few MP’s voted to allow PSCO’s to issue on the spot fines to 10yr olds riding on the pavement. Only the Lords stopped this becoming law.

For years it was illegal to use effective working lights on bikes… and its still illegal to ride after lighting up time without pedal reflectors even now it’s legal to use effective (modern) lighting.

It’s legal to take a 4 yr old and cycle down the NSL bypass but illegal for them to ride on a pavement… obviously some common sense is required.

Being an awkward sod I take great pleasure in doing my best to piss off those who feel speeding is acceptable.

This is why 20mph zones aren’t typically enforced with cameras the reasoning being “it only takes one civic minded driver to enforce the limit as there’s generally no where to overtake”.

How about the dimwits who’s idea of speed limits is to stick a NSL right before a single car only bridge with a right angle??? Should I base my driving on whomever put this sign up having any sense whatsoever ..

They’re legally obliged to put a NSL where there is an NSL road. It’s the law! PS – The sign doesn’t mean you have to drive at the limit, it’s a maximum…

If you want the law changed then have a go at the lawmakers, not those who comply with it as it currently stands. The law doesn’t allow for “common sense”* within these circumstances.

* Whatever that is.

To go out to have fun on the roads is also rather nasty at best.

You’d better go and tell that to the marketing departments of almost every motor manufacturer…

🙄

You’d better go and tell that to the marketing departments of almost every motor manufacturer…

Haven’t you noticed? All of their roads are traffic free…

And we all drive around remotest Scotland or Spain.

They’re legally obliged to put a NSL where there is an NSL road. It’s the law!

What I mean is deciding where the NSL starts …

PS – The sign doesn’t mean you have to drive at the limit, it’s a maximum…

I understand that but my point is that you can’t actually rely on speed limits to be sensible.

Here’s one example… from a 30 mph (and prior to that 20 mph 1/4 mile into Clitheroe)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8807771,-2.3985689,3a,75y,304.68h,66.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8-tW5iDw63HAEoCTZytVQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The bus stop is placed where another bus can’t even get across the bridge… the NSL starts just before the bridge.. so a set of people have all decided his is “safe” ….??? Seriously what not move the NSL not only across the bridge but to the top of the blind bend? You can’t even stop legally because of the bus stop …by the time you can see the traffic approaching the bridge you’re into the bus stop ..

It’s just one example … but if we are expected to actually think there is a reason other than a random assignment to speed limits they need to actually THINK

Like here for example: (Only a couple of miles away) .. the 30 starts before the blind bend
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8949226,-2.3989518,3a,75y,191.66h,74.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su6c_y_0Y-Hiwn8Tow10K3Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

If you want the law changed then have a go at the lawmakers, not those who comply with it as it currently stands. The law doesn’t allow for “common sense”* within these circumstances.

* Whatever that is.
[/quote]

What I mean is deciding where the NSL starts …

Ah! Okay, fair do’s. I don’t know what the local government set up is in either of your locations, but it could simply be that one District Council (or possibly police force as they have a say too) wanted the speed limit and another didn’t and the point where it changes is at the border between the two. Not unusual to have these things happen.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) the law in Britain tends to be quite democratic and loads of people get to have a say, including members of the public and pressure groups, so these scenarios crop up quite regularly throughout local authorities* wherever there are borders.

* The same applies to the NHS with the fabled postcode lotteries.

The bus stop situation could again be local issue. Bus companies use different vehicles with different requirements, not to mention the need to be x-distance from other bus stops, and y-number of stops per z-population etc.

Ah! Okay, fair do’s. I don’t know what the local government set up is in either of your locations, but it could simply be that one District Council (or possibly police force as they have a say too) wanted the speed limit and another didn’t and the point where it changes is at the border between the two. Not unusual to have these things happen.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective) the law in Britain tends to be quite democratic and loads of people get to have a say, including members of the public and pressure groups, so these scenarios crop up quite regularly throughout local authorities* wherever there are borders.

* The same applies to the NHS with the fabled postcode lotteries.

The bus stop situation could again be local issue. Bus companies use different vehicles with different requirements, not to mention the need to be x-distance from other bus stops, and y-number of stops per z-population etc.

As far as I know these are both the same council, police and bus route…
In this case I’m actually saying it should be slower if provides any sort of guide as to what’s safe or not based on conditions ahead you can’t see …. the thinking just isn’t joined up…

But my point is that it can be equally non-joined up in the other direction as well.

Last time I drive there I must have gone 60+ miles in a restricted 50 mph but not a single person was working… I usually try an follow restrictions but when they are just randomly put in I start questioning that… A few weeks ago we had some “pedestrians reported on motorway” restriction… again for 50+ miles… It’s not so much that I didn’t see any pedestrians but the non-logic they would have walked 50+ miles and several motorway junctions… Human nature being what it is I’d like to see my journey is delayed for a good reason not just laziness… at the time I had a kid asking me why we were going so slowly and me trying to explain… an hour later I had to admit defeat at say it was for no reason at all…
(And it was less about the actual journey time than arriving in good time to set up the tent before dark)

The same thing goes for the cycling on pavements or lighting up… we have the Minster responsible saying if people feel unsafe they should carefully and considerately move onto the pavement but if this is what democracy wants then why does the law still say its illegal for a 3 yr old to ride on the pavement…

My perspective on this… is policy making needs to change.
We have a Minister for cycling and another for Transport… both advising breaking the law..

Surely they should be putting forwards changes to the law instead of encouraging people to break it…

If you want the law changed then have a go at the lawmakers, not those who comply with it as it currently stands.

I’m not having a go at complying with the law I’m having a go at people who think it is their job to enforce it whilst breaking another one they selectively decide to ignore.

I discovered another poorly thought out new legislation that it’s apparently illegal to use the emergency stop areas on the new smart motorways to use a mobile phone… yet some guidance say’s to get out of the right hand door and use the provided phone whilst others say to use your mobile to call the highways agency. Surely if they wish to stop people using the phone in them the law should be clear and state you can only dial the highways agency or police in an emergency… and it’s still illegal unless the phone is in a holder… equally you can’t take a pee… no matter how dangerous you feel it is continuing driving … I suppose you can just pee in your seat but really ???

It just seems somehow too much hassle to get the wording correct… and write this correctly and accurately. Frankly I think the whole thing doing away with hard shoulders is a bit scary and going to lead to deaths…

My perspective on this… is policy making needs to change.

Welcome to my professional world.

Welcome to my professional world.

So serious question….
Don’t you think when you have the responsible government Ministers disagree with the law in their specific area they should be the primary ones to be leading this?

Don’t get me wrong I’d be happy to support a change but if the Ministers all think it’s too much trouble at MP’s can’t be bothered to read the legislation and turn up and vote then what can I change????

Just the bus example … it seems to me that EVERYTHING ELSE aside (like distance from last stop) the over riding consideration should be safety…. if the bus company are having rules quoted at them I can’t see them wanting to have a bus stop in a dangerous place nor the drivers who are stopped there as a bus or truck comes over the bridge…

You’d think looking at the NSL/Bus stop/Bridge that whoever decided this combo was a good idea has departed reality… except I’m guessing none did it was just different organisations with different agendas all contributing and none with over riding authority to simply say “FFS no” but likely it will take a death before questions are asked but you only need to look a it to see it has a lot of potential for disaster…

We can either have laws which people submit to without questioning or through enforcement OR we can have laws people understand and go along with because they make sense. (In general) Right now it seems most people including the ones elected to actually vote on Acts don’t even know what the acts are or how changing one is going to affect another existing one.

To me when I see stuff that patently doesn’t make sense or where ministers disagree it doesn’t encourage me to blindly follow everything.

Minister may well be responsible for the National Speed Limit, but local limits are set by Traffic Authorities –
Setting local speed limits

So serious question….
Don’t you think when you have the responsible government Ministers disagree with the law in their specific area they should be the primary ones to be leading this?

Of course, that is their job after all. Ultimately though it is up to us to make our views known to them though, and if they don’t do what we want to vote them out. The problem is, one or half a dozen people can’t do this, you need a sizeable number of people.

<snipped for the sake of saving space>

I don’t really disagree with anything you have written, I was trying to explain how these situations can arise within the legal and planning system that operates within this country. I suppose the clichéd answer is that “Well, it works most of the time” and to be fair it does, though that doesn’t mean that on occasions there are problems.

I don’t know what the answer is, other than a wholesale rewriting of the systems in place and legislation itself, I guess some would argue that dismantling this and putting a better system in place isn’t worth the time/effort compared to other problems that MPs are dealing with (Brexit, the Economy, WW3 etc.).

To be honest, I’ve been in this system too long, I’m apathetic and would love to get out so I’m probably the wrong person to be commenting!

On double declutching ( I have only glanced at this thread) When I did the driving assessment for a paramedic job they wanted me to demonstrate double declutching

Is that where you have to prise the hands of the patient off your throat as you try to treat them?

🙂