On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.

This is 100% right. I don’t drive dangerously; I don’t drive aggressively and I don’t drive carelessly… I don’t actually drive particularly fast most of the time, but I’m happy to ignore speed limits if it’s safe to drive faster than them.

Ghah, speeding again.

20mph in anything built up and rip,out the speed bumps.. ta.

I’m more annoyed by truck drivers ignoring speed limits TBH. F’rrrrrinstance.. yesterday coming down the M1 into the 50mph zone during roadworks, and a steady stream of trucks sellotaped to my bumper whilst I’m doing 50mph..

Ya Boo Sucks to them, intimidating tossers.

And I don’t think speeding is “casual” it’s premeditated and conscious…

Speed? Whenever I drive these days I’m lucky to get to half the limit.
Okay, so when I drive at the weekends when it’s a but quieter, I don’t know why others speed, but if I had to say why I do.
Depends on where and when – outside a school or residential street, I doubt I’d hit the giggdy heights of 20, I spend more time looking where I’m going and not the speedo of course.
Motorway, unless it’s busy my average cruise is between 80-90, why?
Driving at 70mph in Britain doesn’t work, it just doesn’t – doing 70 means puts you at odds with the middle lane mongs, the MLMs don’t like to change lanes, it’s scary and hard work so they sit in the middle doing just enough to try to justify their position so a little bit quicker than whatever’s in lane 1.
If you try to drive as you should at 70 you’ll alternate between 1 and 2 most of the time, our you’ll try, with a clear lane 1 you’ll move into it, the moment you do the snaking MLMs will get up to 72mph and sloooooooly glide past, with another one ‘not quite a safe distance’ behind, until you come up behind a truck. Which you won’t be able to pass because you can’t get into lane 2 MLMs *know* changing lanes is literally lethal so they’ll block you.
It becomes a nasty game of 70 down to 56 wait for a safe gap, 70, lorry, 56, gap – it’s inefficient, stressful and dangerous. If I’m going less than 30 mins on the MWay I’ll set the cruise at 56 behind a lorry and enjoy a bit of 60mpg, it’s not worth the stress to save less than 5 mins.
If I’m going further I set it about 85, I’ll be lucky to visit lane 1 at that speed, but I’ll try but mostly alternate between 2 and 3. It uses less fuel than trying to do 70 or being a MLM because it’s a constant speed.
I do speed on occation in NSL roads (because it’s fun) and sometimes in 40 zones if it’s obvisouly quiet and I know the road well.
I don’t seek to justify that, but if I did it’s this – the speed limits haven’t really changed since the 60s my current car steers and brakes so well despite being a boring old man’s diesel estate it would run rings around my old Golf GTi, honestly it would make mincemeat out of it on any track you fancy.
“Ah” they’ll say, but there are other older cars on the road – so my limit is partly set for the benefit of Dave the Classic Car Nut who wants to drive is Morris Minor at the weekend, that’s fine, but my car is safer than his.
“Ah” they’ll say reaction times haven’t changed (which isn’t actually true, modern life as made us all a little quicker to the draw than our parents and grandparents but that’s not important) okay so the limits are in place for Charles the 83-year-old chap who still drives (good on you sir) but I’m young(ish) fit(ish) and years of trying to kill myself on bikes and playing COD has given me quick reactions and the ability not to panic in a crisis.
“Ah” they’ll say, the roads are so busy no, there’s so much less room than back then – but when there isn’t…
Okay – so we’ve kept the limits of the 60s despite massive advances in car technology (honestly, drive a standard classic mini on cross-plys and you’d be crazy to get near the limits) because the roads are busier than they used to be and we still have to consider older vehicles and older drivers – so if it’s quiet and you’re not 83 then it *should* be safe to drive a bit quicker, or at least as safe as it was to drive at the limit say 20 years ago – fully aware that if I’m caught I’ll be fined and possibly get points, it’s a risk you have to accept – in the same way, camera these days are put where they’re put for good reason, they’re not mindless revenue grabbers so if you’re caught by one, then you deserve it.
Been driving 20 years, had 3 points in all that time, probably speed most weeks.

FOr me its because speed limits seem to be set and changed arbitarily for no good reason and always to a lower speed limits. There are decent A roads near me that have been the national speed limit for the last 40 years. Now they are 50. They are going through the countryside not villages. Nothing has changed on the road except they resurfaced it so arguebly made it safer so why reduce the speed limit? There are dozens of examples of this round our way.

So my question would be not why are people speeding, but why are roads being restricted to slower speeds for no apparent reason

Only use mobile speed cameras and fixed average speed cameras and paint them the same colour as the surroundings so you cant see them.

How many times do people need to be caught and fined before they stop?

I’ve seen this topic before, I’m getting popcorn and biscuits.

Anyone who isn’t paying the most attention when ‘pootling’ through housing estates and past schools and shops, needs to have a word with themselves. That’s the least relaxed I am in a car!

That’s not the situation that was being discussed. They are indeed when you should be paying most attention, and i’m a particular fan of the new(ish) flashing 20 limit around school start/end times.

It’s when you are on some random B road and being forced to do 40 when there’s no hazards other than the odd pheasant that would warrant doing a lower speed than 75.

Overall, speed limits need reviewing in many situations. A lot of urban speed limits need reducing, and a lot of other limits need increasing.

Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.

This is my major bugbear TBH. When the 70mph limit was introduced in the ’60s, the average speed of motorists was around 50mph. The introduction of the limit actually made people drive faster.

The 30mph limit was introduced in the 1930s, when cars looked like this.

Totally going to out-brake my BMW, that is. Yet since then, “thinking time” for braking has gone up (probably due to people fannying about with their stereo / sat nav / phone / feral child). Whether that has had a net effect on stopping distances going up or down I’m not sure – point is though, they were set based on available data in the 1930s and never reviewed. How appropriate are they to today’s motoring? (And, can we have a crackdown on drivers not paying attention please?)

As for IAM, followed one through Ilkley in his big 4×4 yesterday. I think he should have handed his licence back about 10 years ago.

How did you know he had an advanced motoring qualification?

roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.

oads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.

How many did die? And continue to die because of people thinking the law doesn’t apply to them?

Mwhahaha, this is going well.

Various posts along the lines of

I don’t think people think it’s not wrong, just don’t pay enough attention to it.

What about all the people who moan about speed cameras (including the Mail et al)? Best way to not give money to the council for speeding would be to… not speed?

I wonder if there is a trend to rip out single speed cameras and replace them with average speed zones.

That’s not the situation that was being discussed.

My post was in response to Shib trolling away that he only crashes when he’s in heavy slow-moving traffic because he’s not paying attention.

Put me in a line of traffic dawdling along at 25mph and I just become another zombie, far more likely to be saying “Sorry mate, I didn’t see you”…

The fact that he gets bored and doesn’t pay attention when he should be paying the most attention suggests he’s due an IAM refresher course. Perhaps they’ll give him a new sticker for the rear window.

IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.

Wouldn’t the latter damage the good done by the former?

😉

My post was in response to Shib trolling away

Are you so lacking in intellect that the only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate is to accuse me of trolling???

What about all the people who moan about speed cameras (including the Mail et al)? Best way to not give money to the council for speeding would be to… not speed?

Not a lot to moan about with most fixed position cameras. If you can’t notice them then you shouldn’t have been going that fast.
However some are placed in the only overtaking spot for miles and miles which rather than making the roads safer just makes irritable drivers as they are bottled up behind P-Jays 83yr old Morris Minor driver doing a top speed of 40 for another 20 mins.

roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.

I tend to agree, but for the opposite reason, it’ll bring up the speed of the slower cars on the roads to a sensible level.

Speed? Whenever I drive these days I’m lucky to get to half the limit.
Okay, //

snipped the middle as it was a long post

//
Been driving 20 years, had 3 points in all that time, probably speed most weeks.

no mention of vulnerable road users or pedestrians and the difference in collision survival rates at 20mph -30/40 and 60mph

its all about YOU. which sums up a lot of car drivers, they are narcissists in their own little tin bubble.

what surprises me is how many car jocks there are on a cycling forum. love speed? take it to the track where you are only a danger to yourself not others.

^^^this

only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate

The fact you see it as a competitive sport reveals more about your motives than any of your actual ‘contributions’.

Wouldn’t the latter damage the good done by the former?

Ha, only if I was a Top Gear presenter! I was editor for a publishing company that produced magazines for the UK largest prestige car dealers in the noughties. They own the largest group of Aston Martin dealerships as well as Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Jag, BM, Audi etc. I was lucky enough to attend regular launches, track days etc where you’d be encouraged to “make progress” in the latest model, usually with a well-know touring car driver in the passenger seat. I learnt far more on those days than any driving course.
It was at the time AM phased out DB9 and launched the vert/horiz platform, so often got to play in some very lovely vehicles including the Vanquish S – still my personal favourite.
Our content was syndicated to other publishers so there was a wide variety of cars to test/photograph. I was once given a Bentley Arnage Red Label for 3 days, but it cost so much to fill up, it spent most of the time parked outside the terraced house I had at the time!

However some are placed in the only overtaking spot for miles and miles which rather than making the roads safer just makes irritable drivers as they are bottled up behind P-Jays 83yr old Morris Minor driver doing a top speed of 40 for another 20 mins.

maybe the only overtaking spot for miles and miles might also be an accident blackspot from frustrated drivers making poor decisions?

I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph

It already is where I live. But as it’s not enforced, it’s about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

maybe the only overtaking spot for miles and miles might also be an accident blackspot from frustrated drivers making poor decisions?

Possible, but unlikely imo, just revenue generators. They even feature commonly on crawler lanes etc, which is as stupid as stupid gets.

I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph

It already is where I live. But as it’s not enforced, it’s about as much use as a chocolate teapot.[/quote]

Not to be callous, but it will make a difference to the chance of prosecution when somebody is injured / killed.

“Ah” they’ll say reaction times haven’t changed (which isn’t actually true, modern life as made us all a little quicker to the draw than our parents and grandparents but that’s not important)

The opposite is true for a lot of drivers – far more distractions on the road, and making cars easier to drive means that they demand less attention and focus.

camera these days are put where they’re put for good reason, they’re not mindless revenue grabbers so if you’re caught by one, then you deserve it.

Hard to argue with that. If you get caught by a bright yellow box, you’re exceeding the speed limit and not paying attention, which is a lethal combination.

i’m a particular fan of the new(ish) flashing 20 limit around school start/end times.

Yep, agreed. Makes far more sense than permanent reductions. Going past a school at 8:30am, 20mph is arguably too fast. At 3am though, it’s a nonsensical limit.

roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.

Two pages, standards are slipping.

the only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate is to accuse me of trolling???

To be fair, it’s a bit like the boy who cried wolf. If you’re being accused of trolling when you’re not doing so, you’ve only got yourself to blame.

Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.

Pillock. We also didn’t wear seatbelts, had drum brakes and flimsy cars. Things have improved.

This used to be NSL when I was a kid. And someone did in fact die IIRC.

Cougar – Moderator

Yep, agreed. Makes far more sense than permanent reductions. Going past a school at 8:30am, 20mph is arguably too fast. At 3am though, it’s a nonsensical limit.

why is it always 3am when we hypothetically drive past schools?

anyway, let’s pretend that it *is* 3am, the number of people driving is very small, the number of people trying to sleep nearby is very high. The number of people who’d benefit from a higher limit is very small, the number of people who benefit from a reduced limit is very high. Traffic noise is most definitely a form of pollution.

Because they want to get where they are going more quickly. Because they didn’t allow enough time for their journey

FTFY

Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.

But the drivers…

This used to be NSL when I was a kid. And someone did in fact die IIRC.

Works both ways.

This used to be NSL when I was a kid. no-one did in fact die IIRC.

We live on a residential road that is a through road from the bypass to town centre, it’s there to allow farm access as the bypass cut the road in two but it’s 99.9% cars using it. Our section is few parked cars so idiots floor their car from the previous mini roadabout to the next corner, saving 1 second in 100 metres.
There is no need to drive more than 20mph on residential roads.

Totally going to out-brake my BMW, that is. Yet since then, “thinking time” for braking has gone up (probably due to people fannying about with their stereo / sat nav / phone / feral child). Whether that has had a net effect on stopping distances going up or down I’m not sure – point is though, they were set based on available data in the 1930s and never reviewed. How appropriate are they to today’s motoring? (And, can we have a crackdown on drivers not paying attention please?)

Speaking from experience, braking distance doesn’t matter around town. If you hit someone, there’s a good chance you won’t have time to react (or you would’ve swerved around them or stopped).
I’ve cycled round town a lot and only once actually collided with anyone with any force – didn’t have time to touch the brakes, they ran out in between stationary traffic in a busy situation where I had been concerned a car was about to pull out on me so was concentrating on that and didn’t see her until she was right out in the road.
Out of town there are justifications for speeding IMHO (I’m much more bothered about people not paying attention/passing too close than going past 10 or 20mph above the limit out of town). In town, during the day, absolutely none (and yet this is where more people speed).

We also didn’t wear seatbelts, had drum brakes and flimsy cars. Things have improved.

Exactly, so time to increase the speed limits now we are all in safer cars.

There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving. Everyone could drive faster than the limit if they drove correctly, i.e. not 4 inches behind each other, not pulling into gaps that don’t exist on dual carriageways, not being in wrong lane on roundabout etc,.

There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving.

+1000

Speaking from experience, braking distance doesn’t matter around town. If you hit someone, there’s a good chance you won’t have time to react

Because you are too close or going too fast?

fifeAndy that limit is to slow you om the approach to the built up area. It will help the slow of reaction to be in the vicinity of 30mph by the time they get to the junction just past the limit change. Has the town/village grown in the last 20 years? What’s the accident stats like for that first part of the 30mph limit?

why is it always 3am when we hypothetically drive past schools?

Ok, 10pm then. Or any time when free range children aren’t likely to be milling around outside school.

anyway, let’s pretend that it *is* 3am, the number of people driving is very small, the number of people trying to sleep nearby is very high. The number of people who’d benefit from a higher limit is very small, the number of people who benefit from a reduced limit is very high. Traffic noise is most definitely a form of pollution.

There’s a world of difference between driving and 30 and redlining your Scooby at 60mph.

If you hit someone, there’s a good chance you won’t have time to react

If you hit someone, you weren’t driving at an appropriate speed for the conditions. (Assuming you’re paying proper attention.)

…There’s a world of difference between driving and 30 and redlining your Scooby at 60mph.

and there’s a big difference between 20 and 30.

for the sake of keeping things unambiguous, which is when laws are at their best, a fixed limit makes sense to me.

with the added benefit of reducing road noise at ‘quiet’ times.

(speed limits are not *just* about safety. you could live next to a motorway, plenty of people do. it’s very *safe*, but it’s chuffing horrible – because of the noise)

Works both ways.

This used to be NSL when I was a kid. no-one did in fact die IIRC.

Check out this website:

http://www.crashmap.co.uk/

Looks like there was a few slight and one serious RTI, could’ve been an indicator that a fatal was just around the corner…

I was lucky enough to attend regular launches, track days etc where you’d be encouraged to “make progress” in the latest model, usually with a well-know touring car driver in the passenger seat. I learnt far more on those days than any driving course.

the classic **** driver mistake that driving fast around a track = being able to drive safely on public roads…

This is my point Purist, I’ve never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads. I’ve come close and bruised bumpers several times in heavy traffic.

…which by your own admission you are shit at, since driving on open roads is very easy whereas driving in traffic actually takes care/attention/patience none of which you have!

Exactly, so time to increase the speed limits now we are all in safer cars.

Well, all of us except those of us not in cars. Which is most of us.

There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving.

The former is quantifiable, the latter somewhat subjective.