Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 164 total)
  • Frame snapped at chainstay
  • Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    Spray.Bike takes a little practice; sounds like you’ve already figured out a few of the issues. The first time I tried it I was deliberately slapdash and it did chip really easily; on recent frames I’ve been more diligent with prep and used more lacquer, and so far it’s fared better. Haven’t tried T-Cut to buff up the finish, might give that a go.

    I won’t mention that I’ve had two chainstay repairs done for under £20 each at the local smithy 😉

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Can’t believe this is just at £275 with two hours to go , anyone after a bargain(possibly)
    Item no eBay 372860745929

    Son of a b*tch.

    I might have to bid on that.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Went for £387 in the end. If I hadn’t already had mine fixed it would have been a decent bargain, but not if it would have left me with another frame to shift.

    Premier Icon fudge9202
    Free Member

    Still mega cheap at £387 for a complete bike

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    No I know. If mine hadn’t been repairable I’d have bought it for a fair bit more than that.

    I think I’ll call Argos tomorrow. I stressed I didn’t want to lose tyre clearance and I have. I feel they could have talked me through the results better.

    Premier Icon fudge9202
    Free Member

    @molegtips that El Mariachi on eBay has been relisted due to a timewaster

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Shut the front door…

    Premier Icon fudge9202
    Free Member

    Looks a very well looked after frame

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    Shut the front door…

    My mate who’s coming down to BPW on the 3rd lives close to that too 😉

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Bollocks.

    Anyone want to buy a frame with slightly less tyre clearance than usual?

    I don’t think I can make it work tbh. I could flog the fork and wheels off that bike, but the drivetrain isn’t worth much. The dropper I’d keep but no-one’s going to want the one of my current bike. I’d be well out of pocket here and end up with a frame that’d be even harder to shift.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    Did you get a chance to speak to Argos again?

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Full Member

    If only someone on the forum had offered to help out for minimal cost…. 🙂

    Just kidding. Tricky situation for a professional repair business. They will be nervous of large amounts of crimping due to the known crack risk. Somebody earlier said “just fit a yoke”, but that is at least an extra £200 for a Paragon one. A plate yoke design would have worked, but you can’t buy them off the shelf so that adds the cost for CAD time, sending out for laser cutting, bending and more prep before it will fit etc etc so all cost and risk for something very bespoke as a retrofit to an existing frame.

    If you do go for a crimp then DON’T just squash it in the vice – that will just give you a flat / pointy oval tube that will crack along the top or bottom edges. You need a former to push the middle of the tube in on itself without growing the tube vertically. See photo below.

    Premier Icon nickjb
    Free Member

    that El Mariachi on eBay has been relisted due to a timewaster

    Was it a time waster or was the seller not happy with the price? Seems to happen a lot. I’ve been watching a few bikes on eBay recently and they bid to a much lower price than the seller wants (compared to the buy it now) then get relisted. Ones been “sold” 4 times now.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Right, Argos said that they can crimp after it’s been built. I said at the time ‘I don’t want to lose much tyre clearance’, so they’ve written on their form ‘check clearance for 2.4s’. Of course, the 2.4 does fit, but only if you leave the dropouts on their longest setting and there’s only a few mm clearance. If I put them in the shortest setting the tyre doesn’t even turn. So that counts as ‘losing too much clearance’ in my book. I would have gone for a slightly less severe crimp, but there’s no crimp at all.

    They’re calling me back soon.

    If you do go for a crimp then DON’T just squash it in the vice – that will just give you a flat / pointy oval tube that will crack along the top or bottom edges. You need a former to push the middle of the tube in on itself without growing the tube vertically. See photo below.

    I had been wondering about doing it myself. My idea was to make a form then line it with some sort of hard setting putty to form to the outside chainstay shape exactly to minimise pressure. Then make a form for the inside based on the original crimp out of a piece of steel rod hammered to the correct curve. But that’s last resort if Argos won’t help.

    If only someone on the forum had offered to help out for minimal cost….

    I know mate.. it was always a difficult choice!

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    I’ve been watching a few bikes on eBay recently and they bid to a much lower price than the seller wants

    Surely that’s just one of the pitfalls of selling on the ‘Bay?

    Premier Icon nickjb
    Free Member

    Surely that’s just one of the pitfalls of selling on the ‘Bay?

    Actually I think it is more of a pitfall of having an unrealistic selling price in your head. They are going for what I have seen others go for and what I would say it was worth, it just doesn’t seem to be enough for the seller so they try again (usually with the same result)

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    @molgrips any news?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Yep.

    Argos used heat somehow to make the chainstays narrower by ovalising. It’s not clear how hot they got it, which has implications… I’m still not particularly happy because whilst there is now more clearance there still isn’t much and nowhere near what there was. There’s also clearance for my 32T oval ring, but only barely, and again far less than there was. This means chainsuck could cause a jammed chain and hence ruin the stay again. I’ve given up with them, so I’m wondering what I can do myself.

    After researching it a bit and getting great help from the framebuilder subforum of bikeforums.net I’ve learned that what makes 853 is a secret heat treatment process – it’s otherwise the same as one of the other steels. Reynolds tell you not to shape the tubes yourself but they don’t say why. And after long discussion we don’t know how much heat was used and what effect this will have on the tube. It could end up harder (and therefore more prone to cracking during any crimp) or more ductile, meaning I could crimp away.

    I’m tempted to crimp just a little (using a home-made jig, not just attacking it with pliers), give myself a couple more mm – this would probably satisfy me on the inside at least. But I don’t think I can do much about the outside for chainring clearance.

    I’m quite disappointed. 853 was clearly a terrible choice for a customer who was particular about clearance and needed shaped stays because there’s very little you can do to work it. None of this was discussed at all when I went in. I wish I’d just had it welded up now, would have saved a lot of time, money and hassle.

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Full Member

    Sounds like you really want the clearance so try crimping. Go steady and it shouldn’t be a disaster….

    If you cock up or it cracks later then I’ll convert it to a plate yoke. I can get the plate laser cut foc, and can reuse / leave the majority of the stays in situ (just chop out the front bit). After this tale of disaster you can just cover postage.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Thanks mate, I really appreciate it but I would not let you do that without compensation 🙂

    I think I will add a roll of FiberFix to my trail kit from now on 🙂

    Premier Icon donks
    Free Member

    Sheared the chainstay on my Stooge last week…..also very gutted as it’s my only bike and was out of warrantee but called Andy at Stooge and have come to a deal on a new MK4 which is lovely. Was going to get it repaired but couldn’t resist a shiny new one. Still bloody waiting for 15mm wheel axle conversions off the internet though.

    Premier Icon mrmoofo
    Full Member

    It’s failed twice – would you every trust it again?

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Full Member

    The new chainstays are different material / crimping and as far as I’m aware don’t have any memory of what happened to the old ones…. Why should the rider trust them less than the chainstays on any other steel bike?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    It’s failed twice – would you every trust it again?

    The chainstays failed – but they were replaced, and the new chainstays are of a completely different construction. Why would they fail? Also the cause of the failure was chainsuck and a wrongly fitted chainset. The chainset is now correctly fitted.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Update:

    Build a jig to crimp or rather simply crush the chainstays. Those 853 stays are incredibly tough – I mangled up my jig and only moved the stays a couple of mm:

    The thing you can see on the outside of the chainstay is a U shaped section of metal that I filled with epoxy putty and moulded to the shape of the stay, to spread the load across as much area as possible. On the inside, the force was being applied through a shaped piece of steel rod so the pressure would be far higher on the inside this ensuring only the inside would deform. The rod was thinner than I’d have liked, so the crimp is more of a crease. Hope this isn’t an issue.

    It seems to have worked – a couple of extra mm of clearance, and it seems comparable to the original if slightly less:

    This is with the dropouts on the shortest position. I reckon I’ve gained myself a few more mm over previous, and it’s quite usable in this position. I normally have the droupouts 2/3 of the way back and there’s plenty of clearance there.

    There’s not a lot of chainring clearance now though. I think that a chain could get wedged in maybe, but given I’m going to use a single ring I’m not sure if it would simply ride up stop against the top chain i.e. remain in the same plane as the chainring, rather than get jammed. It’s enough space for a 32T oval or 34T round. I might have gone for a 36T if I ever upgrade to 12sp but hey ho, that’ll just have to do as I’m not farting about with it again.

    A side effect of doing this is that I converted the frame to road spacing, I lost 5mm from the dropout spacing! So I just bent it back. What’s interesting though is that in the past I’d noticed that it was pretty easy to flex the dropouts with the wheel not in the frame. Now though it’s dead hard, it needed huge force to bend them back out to 135mm. I had to get my shoulder in there and push. So I reckon it’s far stronger than it was before. Hopefully it won’t be unpleasantly stiff to ride but then again I am using big tyres so I dunno if it’ll make a difference.

    Premier Icon fudge9202
    Free Member

    Curious to know what rear tyre are you running? If I decide to keep my frame was hoping to run 2.4 Barzo or XR4.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    It’s enough space for a 32T oval or 34T round.

    That’s interesting, Salsa only recommend a 32t round ring as maximum with the original chain stays.

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    @molgrips what was the paint like to remove?

    Does it feel tough? Are you impressed with it?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    I have Racing Ralphs 2.35 on it – tons of room on the original.

    Salsa only recommend a 32t round ring as maximum with the original chain stays.

    Hah, did not know this!

    what was the paint like to remove?

    They removed the paint, apparently with a grinder. I need to strip it back a bit more though and it’s a total bastard to remove. I put it on thick, to be fair, but I’m impressed with its toughness.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    I’m not sure i like it, i’m not sure i approve… but that’s certainly interesting and informative work. Nice one.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    You don’t approve? Of which bit?

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    Of which bit?

    DIYing bending chainstays 🙂

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    i’m not sure i approve…

    @molgrips did you forget to ask for permission? 🤣

    I love stuff like this. Sometimes it doesnt work out, sometimes it’s more expensive but he had fun doing it.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    @molgrips did you forget to ask for permission? 🤣

    I love stuff like this. Sometimes it doesnt work out, sometimes it’s more expensive but he had fun doing it.

    Not arguing that at all… I really hope it works and doesn’t collapse and leave him stranded.

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Full Member

    It is hardly going to collapse – at worst it will gradually crack over a very long period of time. At that point it can be repaired / modified.

    “Professional” bending of the chainstays hasn’t exactly worked out well for him so far……

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Not arguing that at all… I really hope it works and doesn’t collapse and leave him stranded.

    Given the amount of force I had to use to get that tiny dent, and how hard it was to spread the droupouts, I am not in the least bit worried. It’s tough as boots now.

    Having said that, I’m putting a sachet of fiberfix in my adventure pack just in case (or other failures – it weighs nowt and is great)

    Premier Icon cogwomble
    Free Member

    Must say, this has been a thoroughly interesting read, so thanks 🙂

    Hope this all works out for you in the end 🙂

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    So after the crimping I had to clean up the burnt paint (this was hard – the cured spray.bike paint is tough as nails) and I gave it some more primer, then I had to buy another can of red cos I’d used the last one. I gave the rest of the frame another coat, and it came out much nicer than previously. A nice deep matte finish.

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    So now onto the stickers. I’d traced them before sending the frame to be fixed, and I scanned these in. After a few false starts trying to copy the lines by me and my mate, my wife had a go – she started with a font that was fairly similar, converted it to a shape in Krita and then modified it.

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    And did a brilliant job. Krita only saves as bitmaps though, but this shouldn’t be a problem as I had a plan to print it myself on waterslide transfer paper. But then I realised that since part of the sticker is white, printing onto clear paper won’t work! Fortunately you can get white vinyl sticker paper:

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    This took ages to sort out, but then there’s a problem. I did a bit of testing and I found that the clearcoat soaked into the paper a bit and made it blotchy:

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    So, I gave up and rang around some local printers. Urban Monkey in Cardiff were the first ones to actually pick up their phone, so I went down there and they were brilliant. I had to vectorise my bitmap again, which went ok, but the guy opened up my images and smoothed them all out and tidied everything up – I’ve never seen anyone use software as fast as he did with Illustrator and something called Composer. I had the top tube stickers printed on white stuff which he laminated, and the black Salsa logo was cut out of black vinyl by his machine.

    When I ordered new primer and red, I decided I wanted to try the sparkly topcoat. I thought it could add a bit of texture back to the frame, not the same as the original metallic paint but along those lines. However I realised that I’d made a bit of a logical blunder. You can’t just keep on applying more sparkly clearcoat to thicken up the finish, cos you get more sparkles and it ends up looking like an enthusiastic 5 year old’s birthday card. I should have used a light dusting of sparkles then applied a load of normal clearcoat. It’s not the worst thing now, but it’s a bit more fabulous than I wanted.

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    However as a practical finish it looks thick and tough as boots. I actually really like the red – much redder than before but rather striking with the white and black.

    I’ve also given it a 1x upgrade with an oval ring which is quite nice too. It’s only been ridden to the LBS so far but I’m quite positive. I’m hoping it’ll be the ideal bike for the weather, I can get some miles done whilst in the shelter of the woods instead of being exposed out on the roads.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    Awesome job you’ve done. Here’s hoping no more cracking!

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    After the crimping, what’s the clearance like? What size tyre did you squeeze in?

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 164 total)

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