Fracking: Good, Bad or Ugly?

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  • Fracking: Good, Bad or Ugly?
  • Tried a search and doesn’t seem to be any recent threads on the issue, which is a surprise given the ‘bribing’ initiative in the news this week…

    So, what are your thoughts on the process and the governments promotion of it?

    LoCo
    Member

    It all stinks.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    It has absolutely eff all to do with affordable power supplies, or any of that crap they’re trying to feed us, and all about making yet more money for their usual greedy corporate paymasters

    The pathetic attempt at bribery – you can keep a whole 1% of the profits (well whoop-de-****ing-dooooooo!!!) is an open admission that they’ve lost the argument already.

    But Call me Daves unequivocal support is a sure sign that all decisions are already made, contracts exchanged, promises made, and any protest will not be tolerated. Expect things to start getting nasty pretty soon. According to people protesting I know, thats happening already

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Im sure itll all be fine

    just ask the residents of Sidoarjo in Indonesia 😳

    would be nice if the money raised was used for the good of the many rather than the few
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/north-sea-oil-money-uk-norwegians-fund

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Either way, I think it’s unfair to ask the Police to step in against Replicants.

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    I think it’s a good thing.

    There, I said it.

    jonah tonto
    Member

    they are hoping to capture (up to) 10% of the available gas. call me cynical if you like but im holding out for something better.

    Certainly appears to be multiple conflicts of interest… how many scandals can Call me Dave be implicated in before the nation rises up and shanks his slimey ass?

    Explanation of pic above

    Premier Icon woody2000
    Subscriber

    I don’t know, but the govt’s policies of “build as many houses as you can, wherever you can” and “frack as much as you can, wherever you can” look mutually exclusive to me. Either that or some pour souls are going to end up living on or very close to fracking sites in their nice new houses.

    FWIW – my gut feeling is that fracking is a bad thing, as much as anything because it’s another source of fossil fuels that we really need to get away from. And it sounds like another one of CMDs “get me mates rich” schemes.

    jonah tonto
    Member

    care to elaborate honeybadger? i wont get screamy, im interested to hear why you’re in favour

    5thElefant
    Member

    I’m all for a bit of frackin. You can stick a fracker in my back garden if you like.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    And it sounds like another one of CMDs “get me mates rich” schemes.

    I think you’ll find that’s the main aim of any Tory policy…..

    jonba
    Member

    I find the use of the term bribery interesting.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I find the use of the term bribery interesting.

    Why? Its fairly simple. You know when the colonial powers went into the rain forests, and places like that? And offered the natives little shiny trinkets, while they plundered their natural resources, then cleared off leaving devastation in their wake?

    Well.. that

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    jonah tonto – Member
    care to elaborate honeybadger? i wont get screamy, im interested to hear why you’re in favour

    I just think it could be a very valuable resource. Environmental regulations are incredibly strict in the UK (I have to fill out pages of paperwork just to get permission to drill into an abandoned coal mine). Talk of pollution to aquifers, etc. I’ve never seen backed up by a reasonable scientific argument – the geology in which shale gas tends to exist isn’t really used for drinking water supply in the UK, and if you ever do want to drill into an aquifer that does, again, there is a huge amount of regulation in place.

    Once wells are set up I don’t see it as being a huge blot on the landscape, no worse than wind turbines, pylons, etc. In terms of peoples houses being in the middle of fracking areas, I’m not particularly sure they know the difference, a high proportion of houses in the north east are sat above abandoned coal mines and would never know (bar the odd shallow mining exception not applicable to fracking). Plus there’s the economic benefits of employment, tax income, etc.

    ninfan
    Member

    you can keep a whole 1% of the profits

    Thought it was 1% of revenues? very different figure!

    I just think it could be a very valuable resource. Environmental regulations are incredibly strict in the UK

    Good point – better that energy is sourced here under strict regulations than in Russia, Africa, China etc where there is likely much more ecological damage caused.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    I find the use of the term bribery interesting.

    Give local councils a long list of services they are legally obliged to provide. Cut their funding so they can’t afford to meet their legal obligations. Then offer them a lifeline, in exchange for storing vast quantities of carcinogenic chemicals all over the place (without proper regulatory control), they can have a pittance of a cut of the revenue from fracking and then find themselves paying billions to clean up the mess left behind….

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Subscriber

    I think fracking is an absolutely cracking idea!

    As long as it is carried out a long way away from where I live, obviously.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I think they’re putting all the wells in Chipping Norton, aren’t they?

    Oh, …. hang on a minute…. Maybe not? 🙄

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    footflaps – Member

    ‘…storing vast quantities of carcinogenic chemicals all over the place (without proper regulatory control)…’

    Curious, can you provide details on that one?

    Good point – better that energy is sourced here under strict regulations than in Russia, Africa, China etc where there is likely much more ecological damage caused.

    It’ll be sold on the global market and we’ll still be an importer of gas [from Norway, mainly] so it won’t stop any gas extraction elsewhere, it might reduce some consumption of imported coal but not in any significant quantities

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    And another thing… until we get round to building more nuclear power stations we’re going to have to burn something, and gas is more preferable than coal (especially when it’s under your own control).

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Curious, can you provide details on that one?

    What do you think they use to extract it? Vimto and fairy wishes?

    cheekyboy
    Member

    Why? Its fairly simple. You know when the colonial powers went into the rain forests, and places like that? And offered the natives little shiny trinkets, while they plundered their natural resources, then cleared off leaving devastation in their wake?

    I would love to learn more about this, where did it happen, what resources were plundered and have the affected areas recovered yet ?

    ninfan
    Member

    Give local councils a long list of services they are legally obliged to provide. Cut their funding so they can’t afford to meet their legal obligations.

    When they stop posting advertorial leaflets through my door and turn their office lights off at night, I’ll believe that money rather than incompetence is the problem.

    Edit:

    vast quantities of carcinogenic chemicals

    Lots of substances are Carcinogenic – have a look at the Daily Mail list for further details http://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com

    footflaps – Member

    ‘…storing vast quantities of carcinogenic chemicals all over the place (without proper regulatory control)…’

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAA

    Oh, you were being serous?

    Im sory you owe me a new keyboard and an explanation why my job is so hard if theres no “proper regulatory control”.

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    binners – Member

    What do you think they use to extract it? Vimto and fairy wishes?

    No, but there is regulatory control – yes, some of this will require updating and amending to better suit fracking, but you can’t just drill holes and discharge waste water, drilling slurry, etc. everywhere without ensuring no impact to the environment, public health, etc.

    SD-253
    Member

    All our carbon emissions requirements can be met by using gas alone as it is a very clean fuel. Gas prices have fallen by 75% in the US. All fuels extraction cause some negative effects on the environment, using that excuse not to frack is hypocrisy. There are people whose whole life revolves around being anti something. The worse argument is that wind power is free! Ignoring that there is always a gas turbine running inefficiently waiting for the constant stoppages in wind power they refuse to take into account the environmental (carbon emmisions) capital costs. Putting a wind turbine in the middle of nowhere. putting in pylons and the huge loss in transmission because they are a long way from the end user. Some say as much as 50% is lost on transmission. Until recently they were getting 43p feed in payments. If only half arrives with the end user then that works out at 86p a kilowatt. Then the grid charges it bit and the electric companies make 5%. You may be looking at £1 a kilowatt. My electric is 13p a kilowatt and my bill is £21 a month. Wind power is free? They the antis should be checked for drug use.

    dragon
    Member

    Why not, if done properly it leaves little mark. So some people get a bit richer, errrr, isn’t that we want, jobs and all that good stuff. The UK has a really good Oil & Gas service industry, so why not put it to use here and then also sell it elsewhere.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Obviously there are some existing regulations, but the UK fracking industry has paid our government to reject any fracking specific regulations:

    The UK has defeated European Union attempts to set legally binding environmental regulations for the continent’s fledgling shale gas industry, the Guardian has learned.

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/14/uk-defeats-european-bid-fracking-regulations

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    As for hazardous waste, there have been loads of problems in the US:

    Also there was almost no regulation of the Coal Seam Gas market in the US.

    Scamper
    Member

    Isn’t fracking already being controlled through our existing environmental permitting system?

    SD-253
    Member

    . hestabiliser – Member
    Good point – better that energy is sourced here under strict regulations than in Russia, Africa, China etc where there is likely much more ecological damage caused.
    It’ll be sold on the global market and we’ll still be an importer of gas [from Norway, mainly] so it won’t stop any gas extraction elsewhere, it might reduce some consumption of imported coal but not in any significant quantities

    why does it follow we will be an importer. If sold on the open market it will have to be exported. It will be cheaper here as there is no transport costs. I think coal is or will be soon out of the electricity equation. We import gas from the gulf by liquefying and transporting vast distances. I would have thought that would stop? If the UK produces more gas then less gas will produced else where as supply has increased. Unless demand increases, not a unreasonable assumption if prices fall BUT at the expense of other fuels no doubt more polluting?

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    @Footflaps

    But we already have strict regulatory control? Adding a further set of European regulations just increases cost and bureaucracy for everyone involved for no meaningful gain.

    Regarding the waste problems in the US, environmental control is completely different over there, in some cases a lot looser than in the UK. I prefer to stick to documents published by more independent and accredited scientific bodies rather than ones with mroe than a hint of bias, the article referring to rejection of waste at a landfill is exactly the same as what happens here – waste must be classified into certain ‘bands’ and then disposed of at correctly banded landfill sites. If they do intermittent testing (which they should), and waste doesn’t meet the right criteria it must be disposed of apporpriately. The point is, there is a very good system in place to make sure all this happens properly.

    johndoh
    Member

    I think you’ll find that’s the main aim of any Tory policy…..

    I think you’ll find that’s the main aim of any Tory politician’s policy…..

    jonah tonto
    Member

    some interesting points, thanks its food for thought.
    i appreciate the points about regulatory control being tighter in the uk but im sure we can all agree that accidents can and do happen? what framework is in place to deal with this? who pays etc?
    while the drill head is small im expecting that traffic to and from will be a fair bit more disturbing than that of say a pylon?
    looking at the areas of america where fracking has gone on via google earth is a bit scary to me. we have a very different country in terms of space.
    in terms of tax revenue generated, are these large multi nationals known for paying their fair share of tax?
    hope im not coming across as arsey, im genuinely interested. i do see the need for energy generation but i am wary and its difficult to get info as it is a very emotive subject from both sides.

    SD-253
    Member

    The UK has defeated European Union attempts to set legally binding environmental regulations for the continent’s fledgling shale gas industry, the Guardian has learned.

    The EU is against fracking end of story. Where are these laws made. Am I right in saying the European Parliament? They are bunch of loons with nothing better to do.

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