- This topic has 66 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by ta11pau1.
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Fox Live Valve
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matt_outandaboutFull Member
Only a matter of time before electronicmagiggery made it into suspension…
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/review-fox-live-valve-suspension.html
swanny853Full MemberDidn’t rockshox do something like this with lapierre a while back?
mikewsmithFree MemberDidn’t rockshox do something like this with lapierre a while back?
Mate got one, the battery died and they had no spares – oh how he laughed 🙂
CaptainFlashheartFree MemberSee also the Cannondale Simon
Rockshox were late to the party, though.
1998 K2 Smart Shock, anyone?
swanny853Full MemberI always thought the Simon was an interesting idea- replace all the damping gubbins with one magically controlled valve. Effectively damping as software. The fox version is just a fancy lockout by comparison, not intrinsically part of the suspension, no?
timbog160Full MemberI’m not sure – doesn’t it just drop you in and out of climb mode – doesn’t actually adjust any of the damping itself – seems like a lot of money for what it does…?
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberTrue, I’d be interested to have a go on a bike with it. Presumably they’ve tested all the more complicated variations and decided a simple (1000x a second) ‘lockout’ is all that they needed.
jonnyboiFull MemberFrom reading the front page it seems quite clever and beneficial
I’m less sold on the design and those external wires, I would fear damage and it looks like it would get in the way when using a cycle carrier
hols2Free Memberdoesn’t it just drop you in and out of climb mode – doesn’t actually adjust any of the damping itself
According to the story on the front page, it’s just an automatic lockout. Massively overpriced IMO. If it actually adjusted the damping for different conditions, I might be inclined to pay a bit for it, but not just for a lockout.
joebristolFull MemberI want some winter ‘fashion’ from the 90’s and that k2 pro flex for the giggles.
moonsaballoonFull MemberIts progress i suppose but I am not convinced we will all have it in 10 years or so , if bikes with it are going to be about 8k at a guess then i cant see there being that many around on the trails and it coming down to a price point where its on say an average priced trail bike (whatever that is these days)
Personally i would rather have di2 come down to mid range , deore/slx , although i appreciate that would have different benefits .
nickcFull MemberAdd to the pile of other electronic equipment that most users see no benefit of or need, but manufacturers see as the way forward. Soon they’ll stop being bike companies and morph onto lifestyle or leisure businesses.
How long before an ebike that has powered assisted drive and gears, suspension and dropper along with built in nav?
simons_nicolai-ukFree MemberIt does seem a hell of a lot of money for an automated lockout. When i use lockouts/climb switches i inevitably end up leaving them on for descents but it’s not a £1000+ and loads of wiring problem.
How it rides will be the thing – they obviously think there are benefits.
dissonanceFull MemberI want some winter ‘fashion’ from the 90’s and that k2 pro flex for the giggles.
I like the bar end shifter.
Back on subject. Does seem a bit excessive for a lock out only. Unless its the first wave and the next lot will allow more flexibility.
itsallaboutmeFree MemberThis is where the blur between ‘mountain bike’ and ‘motocross bike’ starts…..
**Do I see a new sport developing?
timbog160Full MemberThinking about it if this were to be say £2-300 then maybe I’d be interested but 3k is just nuts. Also I’m a bit mistrustful of anything requiring battery operation – I’ve never been interested in di2 for example. It just seems a bit too much like a solution in search of a problem at this stage. For that reason I’m out!
roverpigFull MemberIt’s funny listening to journalists who have spent the past few years telling us that “bike X climbs so well that they never needed to flick the switch” now telling us that what they really want is a bike that is locked out by default and only unlocks briefly when it hits a bump.
thepuristFull MemberAs above I thought that one of the big advances in suspension design was that you can now have a longer travel bike that isn’t a squishy nightmare to pedal, so surely the lockout is only for long slogs anyway. It’s certainly not something I’m reaching for 1000 times a second (or even 10 times a ride). One for the racers only?
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberThis is where the blur between ‘mountain bike’ and ‘motocross bike’ starts…..
**Do I see a new sport developing
What, back in 1998?
chrismacFull MemberI don’t understand why it’s so expensive. Ei did the same thing 10 years ago. The tech is not new so why the price just to do a lockout switch?
DezBFree MemberMy question is… how much difference would that €1800 really make to your riding?
I mean, my RM Instinct has a shock adjuster on the bars and I use it occasionally, but if it wasn’t there and I had to reach down to the shock to adjust the “pro-pedal”/stiffness/lockout it wouldn’t be a major deal. It certainly isn’t worth that much to have something do it automajickally! A car park pose for the over salaried innit?
uggskiFull MemberThis is where the blur between ‘mountain bike’ and ‘motocross bike’ starts…..
**Do I see a new sport developing
Cheaper to buy a motocross bike!
fitnessischeatingFree MemberAs expected a load of people writing it off having not tried it because they don’t see the point.
yes it’s very expensive, however the few people to have tried it have had very positive experiences with it and it’s been in development for years, so the bleeding edge will have to pay for it if they want it.
so, it’s betterer, and will only come down in price, how quickly will depend on how good it really is, but I can see it being adopted by the elite racing teams at least….
DezBFree MemberAs expected a load of people writing it off having not tried it because
they don’t see the point.it’s stupid money.ftfy
hols2Free MemberI can see it being adopted by the elite racing teams at least
Yes, the people who get free stuff from the manufacturer will quite likely use it. People who have to buy it, less likely.
tomhowardFull MemberI don’t understand why it’s so expensive. Ei did the same thing 10 years ago
This, while it was good, it wasn’t a deal breaker then, and since shocks have improved.
wasnt reliable either.
smacks to me as though it’s just taken Fox faaar too long to get it to market
bacondoublecheeFree MemberYes you can make a long travel frame pedal great, but there is always trade-offs (mainly large amounts of pedal kickback). While the current examples shown at launch aren’t the best, I see the real advantage of this kind of system in allowing the engineers to design the suspension kinematics solely around absorbing bumps without having to compromise the design to build in pedalling efficiency.
roverpigFull MemberAs expected a load of people writing it off having not tried it because they don’t see the point.
That’s a fair point, but nothing wrong with a bit of healthy scepticism. After all there is a whole industry that relies on getting us to part with our cash.
So far the only people saying it is great are those with a vested interest in getting us to buy new stuff. The next wave will be people who splashed out a load of cash, so they are hardly unbiased. It’s going to take a while to get a fair view on whether it is really worth it. As I say, it does make me laugh that the people saying it’s great are the same people who were telling me that pro pedal wasn’t needed on modern bikes only a few months ago. Buy hey, maybe it is great.
peaslakerFree MemberFox’s paperclip. “You appear to be riding Downhill… let me bugger that up for you”.
If the default is “locked” and a dry joint lets go when I’m at mach cheese biscuits, will I be able to sue bazillions from my hospital bed.
fitnessischeatingFree MemberThe problem with pro-pedal was it was either on or off for basically the whole time, hit a bump and the suspension couldn’t move over it essentially stalling you, or at least robbed energy.
or turn it off and your efforts go into moving the suspension, so it wasn’t so much better to put it on than leave if off, and then the suspension had to be designed to pedal well, and bump absorb well.
intheory at least as I understand this will mean the suspension will open the split second it’s needed, absorb the bump and the close allowing all the effort you put in to pushing you forward.
this will allow bike designers to focus more on the best traction and forgiving suspension designs, anti squat becomes less important etc etc.
so I at least get the point, in theory, I also get that it’s taken them years to get right, so they need to recoup that investment so it’s really expensive.
obviously I’ve not tried it, and the practice might not pan out with the theory, in which case it’ll fail.
its also way too expensive for me to afford/justify, but IF it does work as well as they say I’m prepared to embrace it when the cost drops over time.
molgripsFree MemberIt’s not going to stay this expensive. This is standard retail practice: put the price sky high at first to hook the new golfers with tons of cash, then reduce it to get the really keen gadget freaks, then reduce to simply expensive. Each phase lasts as long as it needs to until the revenue starts to fall, then proceed to next.
They do this with loads of things – games consoles, to think of one.
Re the device itself, seems liek it could be good – I’d quite like to be able to activate it on a descent by say bouncing the suspension before a known rocky bit (which I seem to do anyway for some reason, helps me get positioned or something). From what I’ve read on how it works this may already work.
tomhowardFull Memberthis will mean the suspension will open the split second it’s needed
A signal will be sent to the servo to open the shock the split second its needed, how long the servo then takes to open the lockout will be key. Haven’t seen any claims on how quick it is either, which is a concern.
ndthorntonFree MemberId be concerned about how often the servo was activated per ride…sounds like a lot to me especially on a really rocky ride in the Peaks or Lakes. Could encounter battery / reliability issues. Also I don’t care how fast the system reacts you’re feeling that first bump for sure….which is undesirable. As is all of that wiring, faff, cost and failure points…
Also I prefer to be in charge of when my suspension is on….for example their is a steep rocky switchback on my local trails where I deliberately lock out the rear to give me more pedal clearance over the rocks…its the only way I can clean the corner…if I have the lockout off I stall.
Oh and I dislike the way this is marketed as somehow high tech. It took 3 years how!! For a few accelerometers, a servo, a very basic microprocessor and a few lines of code. Really!
I’m out
But then I am out of all things electronic on bikes except lights 🙂
molgripsFree MemberHaven’t seen any claims on how quick it is either, which is a concern.
I think I read 3ms ..?
matt_outandaboutFull MemberId be concerned about how often the servo was activated per ride…sounds like a lot to me especially on a really rocky ride in the Peaks or Lakes. Could encounter battery / reliability issues. Also I don’t care how fast the system reacts you’re feeling that first bump for sure….which is undesirable. As is all of that wiring, faff, cost and failure points…
Oh and I dislike the way this is marketed as somehow high tech. It took 3 years how!! For a few accelerometers, a servo, a very basic microprocessor and a few lines of code. Really!
Maybe they were out riding it on rocky terrain, you know, to make sure it lasts and operates when they/you/we want it to. It is called development time…. 😉
hols2Free MemberIf the default is “locked” and a dry joint lets go when I’m at mach cheese biscuits, will I be able to sue bazillions from my hospital bed.
As I understand it, it requires power to lock the damper. If the battery goes flat or a wire breaks, it should default to unlocked.
roverpigFull MemberI guess I can see the logic, but it seems to rely on the idea that it can react to a bump before you feel it. I can’t see how that works if the sensor is mounted in the fork crown (i.e. above the damper). Are they saying that the crown starts to move up but then they open the damper so quickly that it opens before you’ve finished that first bump and it still gets absorbed somehow?
Also, they keep saying that it reacts much faster than a human can. But that’s missing the point. A human can anticipate what’s coming up and adjust the suspension “before” they hit the first bump, not 2ms after.
The system can toggle the lock on and off much more frequently than any human would be bothered to do though, so maye that makes all the difference.
tpbikerFree MemberWon’t a top end fox fork and shock cost the best part of 2000 dollars even without this witchcraft?
So the premium isn’t that high on a rrp basis
But spendy for me though!
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